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As it has come up again in this forum, I will post a paper I recently wrote on the subject of the vision supposedly seen in 1830 by Margaret MacDonald of Glasgow, Scotland.
A False Accusation
The doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture has been widely disparaged with a false accusation concerning its origin. This doctrine was popularized by John nelson Darby in the 1800's. (This is the man who coined the term “the rapture” for Christ’s coming to take his own out of the world.) An opponent of Darby’s claimed that he got this idea from a vision allegedly seen in 1830 by a young Scottish woman named Margaret MacDonald. But if Darby had paid any attention to information coming from such a source he would have been violating his most basic principles. He insisted that “There can be no new truth, which would not be found in the word.” Also saying “The Scriptures are the only rule or standard of faith and practice.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated. The first quotation is from Vol 1, pg 350. The second is from Vol 3, pg 98.) These are not just exceptional statements of this very prolific writer, but basic principles that he consistently applied.
An example of this is the following note he wrote to a woman about some dreams she and some of her friends had reported.
“Very dear sister, – I hear that some of the sisters have had dreams about the coming of Jesus. This has given me uneasiness, for although absent in body, I am with you in spirit, desiring and seeking the good of all of you, the dear redeemed ones of our precious Saviour. It is by the word of God, our rule and our light in these last days, that we must abide. I do not pretend to say that God may not give warning by a dream, for the word of God says that He can do so; but we must be much upon our guard. We have no need of a dream with respect to matters revealed by God... You will generally find that sisters are the ones who have seen these things, and I have not, moreover, noticed that it has brought them, or others, nearer to God... So I beg these sisters to weigh these things well, and not to allow themselves readily to put faith in these dreams, as if they came from God. Let them not allow themselves to be carried away by their imagination, lest they should fall into the snare of the enemy, and lest he should take advantage of this to shake the faith of some.” (From “The Letters of J. N. D.”, Vol. 1, pp. 93-94, second ed., William Kelly, ed., London, G Morrish, 1914)
This letter clearly shows that Darby denounced the idea that these dreams had come from God because we should rely only on the word. (by this he plainly meant the Bible) Notice also the scornful nature of his comment that “You will generally find that sisters are the ones who have seen these things.” Lest anyone imagine that this letter refers to Margaret MacDonald, please note that the subject was dreams, not a vision. The dreams, and those who had them, were plural, not singular. And the letter, which infers that Darby had only recently heard about the dreams, was dated March 5th, 1845, fifteen years after Margaret MacDonald’s alleged vision.
In addition to rejecting all supposed truth from extra-Biblical sources, Darby also rejected all teaching or preaching by women. He wrote that “I do not accept a woman’s going out to evangelize. I never saw a woman meddle in teaching and church matters, but she brought mischief upon herself and everyone else. If she sits down with a company before her to teach them, she has got out of her place altogether.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 26, pg 383, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.) Again, he wrote, “A woman cannot be a principle agent in the work. It is contrary to the ways of God. She may help, GREATLY help, but not be the principle agent.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 32, pg 341, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
It is remotely possible that reading about or hearing of Margaret MacDonald’s alleged vision of a pre-tribulation rapture started him thinking on the subject. But there is no evidence that he even knew about this particular alleged vision. Some years ago Dave MacPherson capitalized on this lack of evidence with a book titled “The Incredible Cover-up.” In this book MacPherson added to the falsehood of the original accusation by claiming that Darby had covered up his contact with Margaret MacDonald. He devoted the entire book to a newspaper-like exposé to prove Darby had in fact visited Margaret MacDonald’s church, which was called the Catholic Apostolic Church. This was completely false. Darby not only did not cover up his visits there, but he openly wrote about them. He called this group the “Irvingites” because their main teacher was a man named Edward Irving. In the following account he referred to himself as the “Irish Clergyman” because he had been called that in the article he was answering. Notice that this account specifically mentions “Two brothers (respectable shipbuilders at port Glasgow, of the name of M’D – ), and their sister” as chief speakers at the meetings he attended. So he not only wrote about his visit to Margaret MacDonald’s church, but specifically mentioned her as a speaker at these meetings.
“But I must here (without any reproach to Mr. N., as it is a matter of memory) recall some facts, and rectify some statements. At Pentecost the languages were universally understood by those who spoke them; the Irvingite tongues never by any one: a notable difference. And this is so true, that after first trying their hand of making Chinese of it. It was suggested among them that it might be the tongue of angels, as it was said, “If I speak with the tongues of men and angels” – delightful idea!
“Mr. N. is quite exact in his account of the report of the “Irish Clergyman,” or at least of what the “Irish Clergyman” saw and heard. There was a pretended interpretation. Two brothers (respectable shipbuilders at port Glasgow, of the name of M’D – ), and their sister, were the chief persons who spoke, with a Gaelic maid-servant, in the tongues, and a Mrs. J. – , in English. J. M’D – spoke, on the occasion alluded to, for about a quarter of an hour, with great energy and fluency, in a semi-latin sounding speech – then sung a hymn in the same. Having finished, he knelt down and prayed there might be an interpretation; as God had given one gift, that He would add the other. His sister got up at the opposite side of the room, and professed to give the interpretation; but it was a string of texts on overcoming, and no hymn, and one, if not more, of the texts was quoted wrongly. Just afterwards there was a bustle; and apparently some one was unwell and went into the next room; and the gifted English-speaking person, with utterances from the highest pitch of voice to the lowest murmur, with all strange prolongation of tones, spoke through (if one may so express oneself, as if passing through) the agony of Christ. Once the Gaelic servant spoke briefly in “a tongue;” not, if the “Irish Clergyman” remembers right, the same evening. The sense he had of the want of the power of the Holy Ghost in the church made him willing to hear and see. Yet he went rather as deputed for others than for himself.
“The excitement was great, so that, though not particularly an excitable person, he felt its effects very strongly. It did not certainly approve itself to his judgement; other things contributed to form it. It was too much of a scene. Previous to the time of exercising the gifts, they read, sung psalms, and prayed, under certain persons’ providence (one of them a very estimable person, who has since seen free from all this, and a minister of an independent or some dissenting church in Edinburgh, then a church-elder). This being finished, the “Irish Clergyman” was going away, when another said to him, “Don’t go: the best part is probably to come yet.” So he stayed, and heard what has just been related. He was courteously admitted, as one not believing, who came to see what was the real truth of the case. The parties are mostly dead, or dispersed, and many freed from the delusion, and the thing itself public; so that he does not feel that he is guilty of any indiscretion in giving a correct account of what passed.
“It may be added, without of course saying anything that could point out the persons, that female vanity, and very distinct worldliness, did not confirm, to his mind, the thought that it could be the Spirit’s power. The M’D – s were in ordinary life quiet, sober men, and, he believes, most blameless. Their names were so public that there is no indelicacy in alluding to them.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 6, pp 448-450, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
Further evidence against the accusation that Darby got this idea from Margaret MacDonald’s supposed vision is Darby’s opinion of her group as a whole. He wrote:
“The people called Irvingites have been plainly convicted elsewhere of so much false doctrine, false practice, and false prophecy, and that by many of the Church of God, as to make it, when known, a question only of preserving God’s children against the deceits and crafts of Satan... they have been often charged with holding the sinful humanity of Christ, and many of their teachers and disciples have, to the writer of this and to other persons avowed it -- that He had the carnal mind, but kept it down or dead. Mr. Irving, bold and fearless in the statement of what he held, declared that his nature bristled with sin like quills upon a porcupine; and that the nature with which the Son of man was clothed poured forth from the center of its inmost will streams as black as hell; and that the Augean stable of this nature was given Him to cleanse; and, what was most material, the spirit which they profess to be the Holy Ghost, though it might not sanction the language, expressly sanctioned the doctrine, the doctrine to which it gave its sanction being, that the law of sin was there all-present.
“Now this was so plainly wicked and evil, and contrary to God’s word and Spirit, that they have, since they have been pressed with it, taken great pains, at least the subtler ones among them, to disclaim and deny this. I say the subtler ones; because it has been not long since avowed by some of their teachers to the writer of this. The way they have gotten over the Spirit’s having sanctioned it is, that they were not answerable for what was said, that is, in utterance by the Spirit, before the ordinances were set up. One of these very ordinances said to the writer of this, that the Spirit might have said it through prejudice to please Mr. Irving. I only mention this to shew the unhappy degradation to which men may be reduced by giving way to the leadings of an evil spirit.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 15, pp 3-4, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
But it is not only the group that Darby condemned as Satanic, but their alleged prophetic visions. He further wrote that “It may not be generally known that the ‘gifts’ among the Irvingites were founded on this doctrine of Christ being a sinner in nature like ourselves. Mr. Irving’s statement was that he had long preached the ‘gifts,’ but there was nothing for the Holy Ghost to testify to; but when he preached this doctrine they came as a witness to it. His teaching moreover on the subject was confirmed by what was received as the prophetic power amongst them.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 6, pp 450-451, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
Finally, Margaret MacDonald’s own notes of this alleged vision plainly show that, although it included a pre-tribulation rapture of some of the saints of God, this was only a partial rapture. If Darby had been relying on any supposed authority behind this alleged vision, he would have made his rapture doctrine a similar partial rapture, instead of the universal rapture of all true believers in Christ which he taught, and which almost all pre-tribbers still teach today.
Margaret MacDonald wrote of this alleged vision, “It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left, because the one has the light of God within while the other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very center. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - But the trial of real faith will be found to honor and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold I frequently said that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth. and nothing but the living Christ in us can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive - or it is with all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work - he will have a counter part for every part of God's truth and an imitation for every work of the Spirit. The Spirit must and will be poured out on the church, that she may be purified and filled with God - and just in proportion as the Spirit of God works, so will he when our Lord anoints men with power, so will he. This is particularly the nature of the trial, through which those are to pass who will be counted worthy to stand before the Son of man. There will be outward trial too, but `tis principally temptation. It is brought on by the outpouring of the Spirit, and will just increase in proportion as the Spirit is poured out. The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept.” (This is from Robert Norton's book “Memoirs of James & George Macdonald of Port-Glasgow” (1840), pp. 171-176. The account was also published in shorter form in his book “The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets; In the Catholic Apostolic Church” (1861), pp 15-18. It is reproduced in full in Dave MacPherson’s book “The Incredible Cover-up” and is available at a number of sites on the internet.)
A False Accusation
The doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture has been widely disparaged with a false accusation concerning its origin. This doctrine was popularized by John nelson Darby in the 1800's. (This is the man who coined the term “the rapture” for Christ’s coming to take his own out of the world.) An opponent of Darby’s claimed that he got this idea from a vision allegedly seen in 1830 by a young Scottish woman named Margaret MacDonald. But if Darby had paid any attention to information coming from such a source he would have been violating his most basic principles. He insisted that “There can be no new truth, which would not be found in the word.” Also saying “The Scriptures are the only rule or standard of faith and practice.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated. The first quotation is from Vol 1, pg 350. The second is from Vol 3, pg 98.) These are not just exceptional statements of this very prolific writer, but basic principles that he consistently applied.
An example of this is the following note he wrote to a woman about some dreams she and some of her friends had reported.
“Very dear sister, – I hear that some of the sisters have had dreams about the coming of Jesus. This has given me uneasiness, for although absent in body, I am with you in spirit, desiring and seeking the good of all of you, the dear redeemed ones of our precious Saviour. It is by the word of God, our rule and our light in these last days, that we must abide. I do not pretend to say that God may not give warning by a dream, for the word of God says that He can do so; but we must be much upon our guard. We have no need of a dream with respect to matters revealed by God... You will generally find that sisters are the ones who have seen these things, and I have not, moreover, noticed that it has brought them, or others, nearer to God... So I beg these sisters to weigh these things well, and not to allow themselves readily to put faith in these dreams, as if they came from God. Let them not allow themselves to be carried away by their imagination, lest they should fall into the snare of the enemy, and lest he should take advantage of this to shake the faith of some.” (From “The Letters of J. N. D.”, Vol. 1, pp. 93-94, second ed., William Kelly, ed., London, G Morrish, 1914)
This letter clearly shows that Darby denounced the idea that these dreams had come from God because we should rely only on the word. (by this he plainly meant the Bible) Notice also the scornful nature of his comment that “You will generally find that sisters are the ones who have seen these things.” Lest anyone imagine that this letter refers to Margaret MacDonald, please note that the subject was dreams, not a vision. The dreams, and those who had them, were plural, not singular. And the letter, which infers that Darby had only recently heard about the dreams, was dated March 5th, 1845, fifteen years after Margaret MacDonald’s alleged vision.
In addition to rejecting all supposed truth from extra-Biblical sources, Darby also rejected all teaching or preaching by women. He wrote that “I do not accept a woman’s going out to evangelize. I never saw a woman meddle in teaching and church matters, but she brought mischief upon herself and everyone else. If she sits down with a company before her to teach them, she has got out of her place altogether.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 26, pg 383, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.) Again, he wrote, “A woman cannot be a principle agent in the work. It is contrary to the ways of God. She may help, GREATLY help, but not be the principle agent.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 32, pg 341, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
It is remotely possible that reading about or hearing of Margaret MacDonald’s alleged vision of a pre-tribulation rapture started him thinking on the subject. But there is no evidence that he even knew about this particular alleged vision. Some years ago Dave MacPherson capitalized on this lack of evidence with a book titled “The Incredible Cover-up.” In this book MacPherson added to the falsehood of the original accusation by claiming that Darby had covered up his contact with Margaret MacDonald. He devoted the entire book to a newspaper-like exposé to prove Darby had in fact visited Margaret MacDonald’s church, which was called the Catholic Apostolic Church. This was completely false. Darby not only did not cover up his visits there, but he openly wrote about them. He called this group the “Irvingites” because their main teacher was a man named Edward Irving. In the following account he referred to himself as the “Irish Clergyman” because he had been called that in the article he was answering. Notice that this account specifically mentions “Two brothers (respectable shipbuilders at port Glasgow, of the name of M’D – ), and their sister” as chief speakers at the meetings he attended. So he not only wrote about his visit to Margaret MacDonald’s church, but specifically mentioned her as a speaker at these meetings.
“But I must here (without any reproach to Mr. N., as it is a matter of memory) recall some facts, and rectify some statements. At Pentecost the languages were universally understood by those who spoke them; the Irvingite tongues never by any one: a notable difference. And this is so true, that after first trying their hand of making Chinese of it. It was suggested among them that it might be the tongue of angels, as it was said, “If I speak with the tongues of men and angels” – delightful idea!
“Mr. N. is quite exact in his account of the report of the “Irish Clergyman,” or at least of what the “Irish Clergyman” saw and heard. There was a pretended interpretation. Two brothers (respectable shipbuilders at port Glasgow, of the name of M’D – ), and their sister, were the chief persons who spoke, with a Gaelic maid-servant, in the tongues, and a Mrs. J. – , in English. J. M’D – spoke, on the occasion alluded to, for about a quarter of an hour, with great energy and fluency, in a semi-latin sounding speech – then sung a hymn in the same. Having finished, he knelt down and prayed there might be an interpretation; as God had given one gift, that He would add the other. His sister got up at the opposite side of the room, and professed to give the interpretation; but it was a string of texts on overcoming, and no hymn, and one, if not more, of the texts was quoted wrongly. Just afterwards there was a bustle; and apparently some one was unwell and went into the next room; and the gifted English-speaking person, with utterances from the highest pitch of voice to the lowest murmur, with all strange prolongation of tones, spoke through (if one may so express oneself, as if passing through) the agony of Christ. Once the Gaelic servant spoke briefly in “a tongue;” not, if the “Irish Clergyman” remembers right, the same evening. The sense he had of the want of the power of the Holy Ghost in the church made him willing to hear and see. Yet he went rather as deputed for others than for himself.
“The excitement was great, so that, though not particularly an excitable person, he felt its effects very strongly. It did not certainly approve itself to his judgement; other things contributed to form it. It was too much of a scene. Previous to the time of exercising the gifts, they read, sung psalms, and prayed, under certain persons’ providence (one of them a very estimable person, who has since seen free from all this, and a minister of an independent or some dissenting church in Edinburgh, then a church-elder). This being finished, the “Irish Clergyman” was going away, when another said to him, “Don’t go: the best part is probably to come yet.” So he stayed, and heard what has just been related. He was courteously admitted, as one not believing, who came to see what was the real truth of the case. The parties are mostly dead, or dispersed, and many freed from the delusion, and the thing itself public; so that he does not feel that he is guilty of any indiscretion in giving a correct account of what passed.
“It may be added, without of course saying anything that could point out the persons, that female vanity, and very distinct worldliness, did not confirm, to his mind, the thought that it could be the Spirit’s power. The M’D – s were in ordinary life quiet, sober men, and, he believes, most blameless. Their names were so public that there is no indelicacy in alluding to them.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 6, pp 448-450, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
Further evidence against the accusation that Darby got this idea from Margaret MacDonald’s supposed vision is Darby’s opinion of her group as a whole. He wrote:
“The people called Irvingites have been plainly convicted elsewhere of so much false doctrine, false practice, and false prophecy, and that by many of the Church of God, as to make it, when known, a question only of preserving God’s children against the deceits and crafts of Satan... they have been often charged with holding the sinful humanity of Christ, and many of their teachers and disciples have, to the writer of this and to other persons avowed it -- that He had the carnal mind, but kept it down or dead. Mr. Irving, bold and fearless in the statement of what he held, declared that his nature bristled with sin like quills upon a porcupine; and that the nature with which the Son of man was clothed poured forth from the center of its inmost will streams as black as hell; and that the Augean stable of this nature was given Him to cleanse; and, what was most material, the spirit which they profess to be the Holy Ghost, though it might not sanction the language, expressly sanctioned the doctrine, the doctrine to which it gave its sanction being, that the law of sin was there all-present.
“Now this was so plainly wicked and evil, and contrary to God’s word and Spirit, that they have, since they have been pressed with it, taken great pains, at least the subtler ones among them, to disclaim and deny this. I say the subtler ones; because it has been not long since avowed by some of their teachers to the writer of this. The way they have gotten over the Spirit’s having sanctioned it is, that they were not answerable for what was said, that is, in utterance by the Spirit, before the ordinances were set up. One of these very ordinances said to the writer of this, that the Spirit might have said it through prejudice to please Mr. Irving. I only mention this to shew the unhappy degradation to which men may be reduced by giving way to the leadings of an evil spirit.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 15, pp 3-4, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
But it is not only the group that Darby condemned as Satanic, but their alleged prophetic visions. He further wrote that “It may not be generally known that the ‘gifts’ among the Irvingites were founded on this doctrine of Christ being a sinner in nature like ourselves. Mr. Irving’s statement was that he had long preached the ‘gifts,’ but there was nothing for the Holy Ghost to testify to; but when he preached this doctrine they came as a witness to it. His teaching moreover on the subject was confirmed by what was received as the prophetic power amongst them.” (From “The Collected Writings of J. N. Darby” second ed., Vol 6, pp 450-451, William Kelly, ed., London, G. Morrish, not dated.)
Finally, Margaret MacDonald’s own notes of this alleged vision plainly show that, although it included a pre-tribulation rapture of some of the saints of God, this was only a partial rapture. If Darby had been relying on any supposed authority behind this alleged vision, he would have made his rapture doctrine a similar partial rapture, instead of the universal rapture of all true believers in Christ which he taught, and which almost all pre-tribbers still teach today.
Margaret MacDonald wrote of this alleged vision, “It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left, because the one has the light of God within while the other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very center. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - But the trial of real faith will be found to honor and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold I frequently said that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth. and nothing but the living Christ in us can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive - or it is with all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work - he will have a counter part for every part of God's truth and an imitation for every work of the Spirit. The Spirit must and will be poured out on the church, that she may be purified and filled with God - and just in proportion as the Spirit of God works, so will he when our Lord anoints men with power, so will he. This is particularly the nature of the trial, through which those are to pass who will be counted worthy to stand before the Son of man. There will be outward trial too, but `tis principally temptation. It is brought on by the outpouring of the Spirit, and will just increase in proportion as the Spirit is poured out. The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept.” (This is from Robert Norton's book “Memoirs of James & George Macdonald of Port-Glasgow” (1840), pp. 171-176. The account was also published in shorter form in his book “The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets; In the Catholic Apostolic Church” (1861), pp 15-18. It is reproduced in full in Dave MacPherson’s book “The Incredible Cover-up” and is available at a number of sites on the internet.)
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