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Can a Christian be a Freemason???

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Sphinx777

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Perhaps we should all take a relief from this thread for a spell... I don't want you all at each other's throats over something that began as a passing interest for me... I started this thread because I wanted to know people's concerns and ideas regarding Freemasonry, and to see whether it could be beneficial for a person's spiritual growth... my curiosity has been more than satisfied, and I am very grateful towards all the people who have contributed thus far, especially Jester4kicks and Rev Wayne... I appreciate you all taking the time to enlighten us with your immense knowledge and insight, thank you for helping me understand the nature and workings of Freemasonry more clearly...


:angel:
 
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Jester4kicks

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I have no idea what you are going on about.

See below:
Can I start placing bets on the number of wild claims you're going to make in your next post? I think an over/under of 7 would be a pretty safe bet for the house. ;)^_^

Ok, ok... seriously though... do you have ANY source for ANYTHING you just said?

Tell you what, how about just citing your reason for thinking "[Freemasonry] adds assent to other religions which do not worship God".

Or how about your reason for saying this, "[Freemasonry] is actually a false religion"...

I'll look through the thread again, but I'm fairly certain that you have yet to post a SINGLE source for any of your claims.

^_^^_^:thumbsup:

Perhaps we should all take a relief from this thread for a spell... I don't want you all at each other's throats over something that began as a passing interest for me... I started this thread because I wanted to know people's concerns and ideas regarding Freemasonry, and to see whether it could be beneficial for a person's spiritual growth... my curiosity has been more than satisfied, and I am very grateful towards all the people who have contributed thus far, especially Jester4kicks and Rev Wayne... I appreciate you all taking the time to enlighten us with your immense knowledge and insight, thank you for helping me understand the nature and workings of Freemasonry more clearly...


:angel:

You're Welcome. :thumbsup:;)
 
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O.F.F.

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Wayne said:
Perhaps it would be in order to post some of the theology expressed in the description of various terms in the front of the (Masonic Heirloom) Bible, and terms found in the glossary in the back: (Masonic emphasis added)

Personally, I don't have an issue with most of what you posted from the Masonic Heirloom Bible. However, I do have issue with you trying to imply that it is the position of Freemasonry. Since it is a FACT that the Masonic Heirloom Bible is NOT an official Masonic document, NONE of what YOU posted officially applies to Freemasonry. If any of it does, YOU should be able to share with us cited quotes that support such a claim from YOUR Masonic ritual or monitor, which explains those terms specifically as desribed in the Masonic Heirloom Bible. Can you do that, pastor? Specifically:

Wayne said:
The phrase in the Masonic ritual, “The lion of the tribe of Judah,” is Messianic and refers to Christ, the anointed of God and royal head of God’s Kingdom.

“Raised to the Sublime Degree of Master Mason” refers to the final symbolic ritual of the Third Degree celebrating our faith in the final resurrection of our bodies, to the divinely revealed truth that these vile bodies shall be fashioned into the likeness of the risen and perfected and glorified body of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Masons are to be careful that the stone rejected by the Jewish builders of the kingdom of God be not rejected by them.

Masonry believes that man is the offspring of God by creation, that God made mankind all of one blood, and that God is by virtue of His creation of man and of His goodness to him, his Father. When this filial relationship was marred by sin, Jesus Christ made full provision for its restoration.

JEHOVAH:

A title of the Supreme Being. Its meaning is similar to the title I AM. It denotes the God of redemption.

CREATION:

Freemasonry recognizes Jehovah God as the great architect of the universe, as the creator of all things, . . .

Feel free to add more to this list if you can to support what you posted from YOUR ritual or monitor. I don't think you can, but if you can't, maybe your fellow Masons "J4K" or "Wayseer" can provide it from their Masonic rituals or monitors. I don't think they can either. But they are certainly free to try. More importantly, I would like to know, since Freemasonry isn't Christian, then how can what you posted apply at all to those who profess to be non-Christian Masons, such as J4K?

He, along with Masons who claim to be agnostic, orthodox Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Bhuddists, etc. ALL reject Jesus Christ, who is the Chief Cornerstone. Freemasonry requires belief in "a" Supreme Being, not Jehovah who is "the" Supreme Being and God of Redemption, as stated above. Freemasonry recognizes any concept of God by any Mason, no matter what god he believes in. And YOU know this; but if you can show us where it says that Masons MUST believe exclusively in the God of the Bible, please do.

Where in YOUR ritual, or those of any Mason for that matter, does it state any of what you posted from the Masonic Heirloom Bible? I believe the Masonic writers who put these things in it, did so to dupe naive Christians like yourself to fall for such garbage in order to fool you into joining; and you are deliberately deceiving the readers into thinking this is the prevailing Masonic opinion. If ALL of what you posted is indeed the pre-eminent position of Freemasonry EVERY single ritual today would say so. If they do, please show us by starting with YOURS! J4K and Wayseer, please follow suit with what's stated in yours.
 
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wayseer

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J4K and Wayseer, please follow suit with what's stated in yours.

Why - you're the one that's left FM.

The question was - can a Christian be a FM. The answer is, Yes. But you already know that. What you are trying to portend is that Christians cannot be FM - but that was not the initial question.
 
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Rev Wayne

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I believe the Masonic writers who put these things in it, did so to dupe naive Christians like yourself to fall for such garbage in order to fool you into joining

That’s about as ignorant and uninformed a comment as I’ve ever seen you make. You know as well as I do that every Mason is presented with a Bible. You also know that this does not occur until he has completed the third degree.

So now you are making the ridiculous claim that the material which is contained in the front material of a Masonic Bible—which a Mason will not see until AFTER completing the Blue Degrees—was put there to “fool him into joining!”

If someone were truly using this to “fool someone into joining”---why on earth would they wait till AFTER they have joined before they present it to them??? Do you take the readers here for idiots??? I can’t answer that question for you, but one thing is for sure: after posting this, you haven’t exactly boosted anyone’s confidence that your claims have any truth to them.

There is also the matter of THIS claim you make:

to dupe naive Christians like yourself to fall for such garbage

Garbage??? You mean you are calling this garbage??

JEHOVAH:

A title of the Supreme Being. Its meaning is similar to the title I AM. It denotes the God of redemption.
You did, after all, include it in the snippet you cited from my post. Do you not consider Jehovah God to be the Supreme Being? Do you not consider it to be similar to the title I AM? Do you not consider Jehovah to be the God of redemption? Do you truly consider the interpretations of the Masonic Bible, all of which are in accord with Christian theological interpretation, to be "garbage?"

Since it is a FACT that the Masonic Heirloom Bible is NOT an official Masonic document, NONE of what YOU posted officially applies to Freemasonry. If any of it does, YOU should be able to share with us cited quotes that support such a claim from YOUR Masonic ritual or monitor, which explains those terms specifically as desribed in the Masonic Heirloom Bible. Can you do that, pastor?


Before I was presented with this Bible, the seal of the Grand Lodge of SC was affixed to it. In the Code of the Grand Lodge, Ahiman Rezon p. 331, you may find the following:

SEC. 90. Seal.—Each chartered Lodge must have a seal, an impression of which must be attached toall its official papers.

Like it or not, the Bible is sealed with the official Grand Lodge seal in our jurisdiction. But it’s the same elsewhere as well.

I entered “Masonic Bible Presentation” into my browser and came up with 219,000 hits, where you can easily find multiple versions of Bible Presentations from lodges all over the place. A man who holds dual membership here and in his former home of New York gave me a copy of their newsletter, which contained a reprint of an article from their Grand Lodge publication, at the time Masonic Bible Presentation became officlal there:

The advantage of an authorized Grand Lodge edition of the Great Light is obvious and the added material will doubtless increase the popularity of the commendable custom of Bible presentation and help to extend it widely throughout the Craft. (Empire Mason, May 1924)

And “extend it widely throughout the craft” has certainly been the case. Here is one example of some comments from a Bible Presentation:

My Brother, in recognition of your qualifications as a Master Mason, it is my pleasure, on behalf of the Master and Craft of _______ Lodge, to present you with you own copy of ‘Yonder Book’ – a Masonic Bible.This is a Masonic Bible because on the fly leave there is a place to record the
significant events in your Masonic career such as the dates of your initiation, passing and raising. It is a Masonic Bible because there is a front-a-piece with lithograph illustrations of Solomon’s Temple and a cross-reference index to Masonic ritual work.

It is a Masonic Bible because two of the Great Lights of Masonry, the Square and Compasses, are embossed in gold on the cover of this, the third Great Light – the Holy Bible itself.

By the ignorant and ill-informed it is assumed that this Masonic Bible is different and therefore must distort and alter the great stories and lessons. I assure you, that other than the aforementioned, the contents of this book are the usual King James translation of the Holy Bible – it is the very same Bible they, and you, have always known.

Many fear that Masonry is trying to influence change in the contents of the Bible, as a matter of fact, just the reverse is true. There is nothing that has any greater influence on the formation of Masonry today than this great book, the Holy Bible, the same ‘Yonder Book’ on which you took your Masonic vows.

This is the greatest of books, with many teachings of charity, morality, and brotherly love; learn well its values; take them to heart; practice them and the lessons you have heard so frequently inculcated in this Lodge and you can go forth proudly among all men as a Mason.

You have testified on your own website to having followed the admonition to make the Holy Bible the “rule and guide of your faith.” What a pity that you were also influenced by those who misunderstand and accuse Masonry. You specifically mentioned John Ankerberg, who has been proven to be a deceiver of many people on the subject of Masonry. He has been exposed by De Hoyos and Morris in “Is it True What They Say About Freemasonry?”

But as usual, you spit into the wind. We have been over all this material so many times, you’d think you would have gotten it by now. You’ve been duped by proven liars, that’s all there is to it. Once they got their hooks into you, you went from Ankerberg to Freemasonrywatch to cuttingedge to saintsalive to Chick tracts, the whole nine yards. They all are basically still working on the same original lies that were created, now they rehash and re-define them to make them more palatable to gullible and conspiracy-minded Christians, until they almost believe it themselves.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Freemasonry recognizes any concept of God by any Mason, no matter what god he believes in.

Sorry, but I’ll have to call you on this one, you’ve got the matter twisted beyond recognition. Masonry recognizes two main “concepts of God”: God is described as “Architect,” and that description is elsewhere elucidated as “Creator.” The other concept is that God is "Supreme," or Sovereign over all His Creation.

The error you make is, Freemasonry recognizes men, not concepts. They recognize any man among them who comes from a religion with a belief in God--kinda like the Boy Scouts do with their members. But recognition of men is not tantamount to recognition of religious concepts. In Masonry, that means men are accepted despite the fact that they may come from varied religious backgrounds.

Where in YOUR ritual, or those of any Mason for that matter, does it state any of what you posted from the Masonic Heirloom Bible?

You won’t find it “stated” per se, but you certainly will find reflections of it in various places in Masonry: “Lion of the tribe of Judah, who has prevailed to loose the seven seals”; “Thou hast promised that wherever two or three are gathered in Thy name, Thou art there in the midst of them”; “Grand Artificer of the Universe, or He who was taken by the devil to the pinnacle of the Temple”: “faith in the merits of the Lion of the tribe of Judah”; and various and sundry other places with which I’m sure you’re already familiar, having been shown them repeatedly for a period of several years now.

you are deliberately deceiving the readers into thinking this is the prevailing Masonic opinion.

I’ve said nothing of the sort. I made this reply, after all, to a remark with plenty of foolish and untrue notions and implications of its own:

Yes, it has it's own type of bible--rules, regulations, religious dogma.

That statement falsely implies that Masonry has a “different” Bible. I simply responded that the Masonic Bible is no different than any other KJV Bible, other than in its front and back material. In that regard, it is still no different than any other “special interest” groups who include front and back material, whether that be the Gideons Bible, or the Wesley Bible, or the Ryrie Bible, or any other. I made no statement suggesting any “prevailing Masonic opinion” at all, I simply posted material to show that the Bible in question does not present any alternative or substitute belief for Christian interpretation and theology. Knowing the penchant of accusers for trying to belittle what Masons post about such things, I made sure to include sufficient material to ensure that the readers can discern that I’m not just talking about a snippet here or there, in the same manner in which our accusers offer what they consider “proof.”

If ALL of what you posted is indeed the pre-eminent position of Freemasonry EVERY single ritual today would say so.

Really, Michael? Now suppose you tell us exactly why a symbolic system which is “veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols,” would suddenly abandon symbolic teaching for the direct methods you insist would be the case?

If they do, please show us by starting with YOURS! J4K and Wayseer, please follow suit with what's stated in yours.

That’s just it, they don’t. “If’s” are not facts. You’ve predicated your challenge on a conditional premise, which has been shown not to be the truth. Masonry teaches by symbol and allegory. That’s why Wilmshurst has said:

To clear vision, Christian and Masonic doctrine are identical in intention though different in method. The one says "Via Crucis"; the other "Via Lucis"; yet the two ways are but one way. The former teaches through the ear; the latter through the eye

As for the Masonic Bible, the nature of its content and material is not the same as with Masonic ritual, a fact you seem to be unaware of. Its Bible content is King James Version. Its dictionary and glossary are not Masonic ritual, they are materials intended to aid the reader in understanding the Scriptures contained therein. Therefore, it is direct and specific, whereas Masonic ritual, which are designed to cause its entrants to think and interpret, is "veiled" in allegory. Masonic ritual is designed to make the Mason seek understanding; the Masonic Bible glossary is designed to aid the understanding of the Mason who has already begun to think.

P.S.: I fully anticipate you will have some response, so just a note, I will be away for the coming week, be back around no sooner than next Monday. Take your time.
 
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morningstar2651

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marksman315

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But the only place that these so-called "oaths" are found is in anti-Masonic boks and on anti-Masonic websites. Several of these have been proven to be fake.

I am not a mason, but my father was both a Mason and a devout Christian who would never have sworn allegiance to anyone "other than Christ."

I can't speak from experience, but from what I heard the Free Masons purposely appear to be very Christian like at the lower levels. Once a person gets more into and higher up then things start shifting away from Christ.

It's a very similar thing that I have heard about Mormonism. Everything seems good at first until the hidden agendas start appearing. I'm not stating they are the same by any means. I'm just stating that they both appear innocent at the lower levels.
 
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SealedEternal

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I can't speak from experience, but from what I heard the Free Masons purposely appear to be very Christian like at the lower levels. Once a person gets more into and higher up then things start shifting away from Christ.

It's a very similar thing that I have heard about Mormonism. Everything seems good at first until the hidden agendas start appearing. I'm not stating they are the same by any means. I'm just stating that they both appear innocent at the lower levels.

Actually the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith was a Freemason and incorporated the occult Masonic rituals into temple Mormonism. Only the elites who are given special invitation to the Temple ever experience the true religion inside the religion, while most are left in the outer court never understanding what goes on in the higher levels. You are correct in your comparison, since in Masonry the low level dupes who are relegated to the outer court do not understand the true religion either, unless they are hand picked by the elites to be born of the light or illuminated.

In reality the dupes in the outer court of both religions are nothing more than sheilds to protect the true adepts in the inner circle, and if they attend Churches and do charity work, all the better for public relations and giving the organization the facade of being moral and good. In other words, the outer court is being used by the elites who consider themselves superior to them, and therefore deserve to be taken advantage of, while the dupes themselves think they are important because they've been given the privilege of joining the lodge and received a few perks.

SealedEternal
 
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marksman315

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Actually the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith was a Freemason and incorporated the occult Masonic rituals into temple Mormonism. Only the elites who are given special invitation to the Temple ever experience the true religion inside the religion, while most are left in the outer court never understanding what goes on in the higher levels. You are correct in your comparison, since in Masonry the low level dupes who are relegated to the outer court do not understand the true religion either, unless they are hand picked by the elites to be born of the light or illuminated.

In reality the dupes in the outer court of both religions are nothing more than sheilds to protect the true adepts in the inner circle, and if they attend Churches and do charity work, all the better for public relations and giving the organization the facade of being moral and good. In other words, the outer court is being used by the elites who consider themselves superior to them, and therefore deserve to be taken advantage of, while the dupes themselves think they are important because they've been given the privilege of joining the lodge and received a few perks.

SealedEternal

Thanks for the information. I did not know how that Joseph Smith was a Freemason. That explains quite a bit about both organizations.
 
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wayseer

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I can't speak from experience, but from what I heard the Free Masons purposely appear to be very Christian like at the lower levels. Once a person gets more into and higher up then things start shifting away from Christ.


At the risk of repeating what has been said previously a number of times - Freemasonry is not a religion - not a religion. Got it? I know that's hard to digest but there it it is. Freemasonry is a fraternity. If you don;t know what a fraternity is please look it up in your dictionary.

Everything seems good at first until the hidden agendas start appearing.

It never ceases to amaze me how those who are not FM talk about some 'hidden agenda'. So, please tell me what is this 'hidden agenda'?
 
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wayseer

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Actually the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith was a Freemason and incorporated the occult Masonic rituals into temple Mormonism.

Actually, lots of well know people were or are FM and incorporate much a FM into their daily lives. Fidelity, honesty,integrity, benevolence, love, compassion, justice, prudence, patience, temperance, fortitude - yeah, I guess that's really bad.

... and if they attend Churches and do charity work, all the better for public relations and giving the organization the facade of being moral and good.

Well, I guess you level the same moribund charge against Lions, Rotary, Apex and other service clubs. No?
 
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Jester4kicks

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The correct answer is: A weak and seduced Christian can become a member of a lodge. But a strong and vibrant, Spirit-filled Christian is not enticed away because he knows what God means by taking other vows, and one look at the kind of vows that Freemasonry insist on is very telling indeed. Satan is indeed behind it. A child of the King will obey the King and not venture into Freemasonry for fear of losing his salvation, diluting and polluting his faith in Christ by joining with other gods.

A Freemason is a dupe of Satan.

I count 10...


House wins again! ^_^^_^^_^


Just as I said: Masons have their own Bible. All your refutation has come full circle to merely agree you have your own Bible--with Masonic helps. Hmmm?

I'm not sure what you mean by "their own bible". The "Masonic Bible" is just a KJV bible with an extra section at the beginning that discusses Freemasonry... oh, and it has the square and compass symbol on the front. (Mine also has the name of the lodge that raised me)

You can actually buy one without even being a mason: http://www.amazon.com/Master-Mason-...d_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217785028&sr=8-1

Oh... and I only counted 2... so I guess the house lost that one. ^_^^_^
 
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marksman315

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At the risk of repeating what has been said previously a number of times - Freemasonry is not a religion - not a religion. Got it? I know that's hard to digest but there it it is. Freemasonry is a fraternity. If you don;t know what a fraternity is please look it up in your dictionary.

I saw from a recent post that FM has their own Bible. Even if it is a KJV, then why do they need to put their symbol on it? Sounds like they are making a claim of some type of religious affiliation.

It never ceases to amaze me how those who are not FM talk about some 'hidden agenda'. So, please tell me what is this 'hidden agenda'?

Ok, you got me on this one. I have no idea what's going on now. From the things I heard before one of the hidden agendas "was" the creation of the United States.

On a slightly different subject. Why is there so much secrecy? It's not like they are the CIA or KGB. The secrecy just adds to the rumors that there are things to hide.
 
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wayseer

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I saw from a recent post that FM has their own Bible. Even if it is a KJV, then why do they need to put their symbol on it? Sounds like they are making a claim of some type of religious affiliation.

Well, if such action is to be deemed some confirmation of an 'religious affiliation' such affiliation would be Christian - which seems to the subject of some derision.

Ok, you got me on this one. I have no idea what's going on now. From the things I heard before one of the hidden agendas "was" the creation of the United States.

That's one I haven't heard before. I wonder who made that up.

On a slightly different subject. Why is there so much secrecy? It's not like they are the CIA or KGB. The secrecy just adds to the rumors that there are things to hide.

Good question.

I posted this some time ago but it appears applicable here.

United Grand Lodge of England is know as the premier GL as it started from a meeting of four otherwise independent Lodges in the Goose and Gridiron pub in London in 1717. However, to understand what FM is about, what's it's aim and objectives may be, it is necessary to backtrack from 1717 - back into the Middle Ages.

Back in those times there were only two classes of people - the aristocracy and the peasants (serfs). The aristocracy owned the land and did no work, while the peasants did not own any land and had to do all the work - life was tough for a serf. Serfs developed many expert skills, silversmiths, tylers, millers and the like - all the necessary expertise to keep a community ecomically afloat. These men, and they were men, had to belong to associated guilds which controlled their labour - and one of the more restrictive was the ability to move about the country in search of work. Masons, who worked in stone, were alleviated of this restriction - they were deemed 'free' to move about with respect to work. This aspect was necessary as masons were responsible for the massive buildings, particularly the many catherdrals which still exist today, and such buildings were not built in close proximity to each other. Travel was therefore a requirment for masons many of whom travelled to the Continent to continue their work.

The building of these catherdrals and castles was a lengthy process - 20 years and more - and the men lived in a lodge build near their workplace. The lodge became the place where masons not only lived and eat but carried out their own administration of the lodge - particularly the acceptance of apprentice mason and their eventual elevation as fellows of the craft, ie, masons. It is not unexpected that there grew up around this aspect of communal living and working together a formalised ritual within the lodge and it is the form of ritual which underpins much of present-day FM.

A significant aspect of that formalised ritual took on a religious significance. Denied the priviledges of the aristocracy- which also meant access to the printed word as in the Bible - these operative masons made work a virtue - a reflection of God. Much of this history is lost in the midst of time but there are documents known as the 'Old Charges' which supports this view. Thus, while the masons built a catherdral to the Glory of God they also built themselves along the morals and ethics outlined in Christian scripture as the Regius Poem (AD1390) entreats ...

The twelfth article is of high honesty
To every mason wheresoever he be,
He shall not his fellows' work deprave,
If that he will his honesty save;
With honest words he it commend,
By the wit God did thee send;
But it amend by all that thou may,
Between you both without nay. (doubt)

Masons had secrets. Those secrets had to do with who they were - men with skills that transcended their lack of literacy - namely geometry. The theories of Euclid were essential to building and these edifaces that masons built during this time and those magnificant buildings that one sees today are testimeny to that skill. Those skills were protected by certain secret words and tokens which served to identify just who were and who were not qualified masons - what we might now call a curriculum vitae.

Operative masonry all but died out when the great catherdral building era passed. But there were many who were draw to the ethics and morals of the Masons and attended Lodge meetings through invitation. As a result ,over time these guests became members of the lodge and were known as 'speculative' masons - as opposed to 'operative' masons. As time passed it was the speculative masons who became the majority of members and eventually inherited the traditions of the old operative masons which became formalised in the meeting conducted in the Goose and Gridiron in 1717.

So the secrets of a FM have to do with particular signs, tokens and grips - which serve to identify just who is or who is not a Mason - that's all. These signs, token and grips are still valued amongst FM today as part of the tradition. There are no other secrets. In fact if you do a search of the web these so-called secrets will readily be discovered - so even these are really not secrets any longer.
 
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Rev Wayne

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The primary method of accusation against Freemasonry is the unsubstantiated insinuendo:

marksman315 said:
“Sounds like. . .”
“From the things I heard before. . .”
“I can't speak from experience, but from what I heard. . .”
“It's a very similar thing that I have heard. . .”
IMHO, such claims are completely unsubstantiated and deserve to be ignored. There have been more than the usual share of them for several pages now. There seem to be a number of claims on this thread lately which repeat what they have heard, or what somebody else has heard and repeated, or what they have read somewhere and conveniently forgot to mention where. The whole approach on which the claims are based is devoid of merit, or logic, or truth.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Just as I said: Masons have their own Bible. All your refutation has come full circle to merely agree you have your own Bible--with Masonic helps. Hmmm?

I posted quite a few of the “helps,” enough to give sufficient proof that the basic theology behind the “helps” is in accord with Christian theology. In fact, perhaps you didn’t notice it, but the basic pattern was, I posted what would be considered the “basics” in any Theology 101 course: Jehovah, Creation, Lord’s Day, Lord’s Supper, salvation, soul, Word, Jesus Christ, God, Gospel, Holy Spirit, and similar b asic terms.

The challenge still stands, show where anything I cited from the glossary of the Masonic Bible is in error from a Christian theological standpoint, if you can find it there.

I can't speak from experience, but from what I heard the Free Masons purposely appear to be very Christian like at the lower levels. Once a person gets more into and higher up then things start shifting away from Christ.

And I have shown, I think it was on this thread but I may be mistaken, that in fact, it is just the opposite: once you get beyond the Blue Degrees, it is much easier to point to symbolism that is more directly Christian. In fact, in former times, the Blue Degrees were referred to as the “Jewish Degrees,” and the others were called the “Christian Degrees.” But more to the point: do you believe everything you hear? As much as you use "I have heard" and similar descriptions, you seem to base everything you say about Freemasonry on things that you "heard."

I saw from a recent post that FM has their own Bible. Even if it is a KJV, then why do they need to put their symbol on it? Sounds like they are making a claim of some type of religious affiliation.

I have a Wesley Study Bible that carries information in it about Wesleyan theology. I have a Gideon Bible which has the official Gideon emblem on the cover. In either case, I always took it to mean that the Bible was created/produced/distributed by the organization whose name so appeared. Moreover, Thomas Nelson, a reputable Bible publisher, offers to customize your Bible’s cover for whatever organization you may belong to:

http://www.custombibleservice.com/index.asp?view=moreinfo

Or if you wanna get really extreme, you can go to the Olympics in Beijing and buy one of the Bibles being sold by six state-run Christian churches, with your choice of either of two different Olympic logos gracing the entire front cover.

Why is there so much secrecy? It's not like they are the CIA or KGB. The secrecy just adds to the rumors that there are things to hide.

Only if someone is already predisposed toward such things. Conspiracy theories are popular in our times, and especially in our own culture. People can be pretty inventive, and they usually choose as the object of their creations, an organization about which they assume little is known; or, they choose subjects which are quite unverifiable, in order to avoid having their little games exposed. In fact, with the advent of the internet age, the problem has only become worse—so much worse, in fact, that entire websites have been devoted to exposing the lies and helping discerning readers discover the truth (e.g., urbanlegends.com, snopes.com, masonicinfo.com, etc.).

The rumors against Freemasonry have been refuted over and over. The resilience of those who continue them in total disregard of the truth is amazing. How extremely unfortunate that such diligence and tenacity seemingly cannot be redirected toward some worthwhile endeavor. Unfortunately, greed is the culprit in many cases—there are those who simply cannot give up the cash cow even after it dies. As long as there are people who believe every claim that “there are snakes around, and you really need our snake oil,” accusations against Masonry will continue to proliferate. And they will continue to be aided by those who are convinced that by spreading these organizations’ claims, they are engaging in the wonderful religious exercise of “defending the faith.” The current antimasonic fervor brings back memories of the 60’s and all the “protectors” extolling the virtues of the King James Bible in opposition to every version that came along, while vilifying other Bible versions with every smear they could devise (there are still a few of them around, too).
 
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misfitforfaith

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On a slightly different subject. Why is there so much secrecy? It's not like they are the CIA or KGB. The secrecy just adds to the rumors that there are things to hide.
:cool:
markesmen: You know they actually are, the info is all over the net about just such affliations. Your going have to try alot harder than that to prevent so many anti FM sentiments when there is so much anti FM material out there for public consumption.I for one dont believe all of it, however definately over 50% of it.There is simply too many diverse but agreed claims for FM not to be anti christ.
Even if you could turn the tide on public perceptions of FM the fact that it is so exclusive and elitist will always build suspicion against FM for the same reason the too common majority dont like any secret cliquey grouping.Also is it still official FM membership policy to exlcude catholics and certain other categories thus getting their backs up.

wy: Above info is typical FM history however its all pretty stock standard nothing new, nothing I for one havent seen hundreds of times before in official history on FM. I think what these posters want here is your fraternal secrets. Will you divulge them to the profane I doubt it!.
 
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