Who really cares what the ECF's had to say?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by beamishboy Amen!!! Thus speaks a true Christian Saint.

The beamishboy is happy/blessed to be a novice to Santa Simonthezealot.

Do you venerate him?
Peace,
Anglian

This thread is hilarious!!!

Ezekiel 39:6 And I send fire in Magog and in ones dwelling of the Coastlands to-trusting, and they know that I YHWH.

Reve 20:8 and will go forth out/exeleusetai <1831> (5695) to deceive the nations that are in the four corners of-the land, the Gog/gwg <1136> and the Magog/magwg <3098>, to-be-together-assembling/sunagagein them into the battle....[Ezekiel 38 and 39]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Anglian
Some err in one direction, even as you do in the other; being sinful, I shall leave you to cast the first stone.
Anglian

http://christianforums.com/t4724863&page=4
John 8 and Jesus writing in the Dirt

John 8:6 This yet they said trying Him, that they may be having to be accusing of Him. The yet Jesus down-stooping to the finger Wrote into the ground,
7 As yet they persisted asking Him. He up-bends and said toward them "The sinless-one of ye first the stone on her let be casting"!
8 And again down-stooping He Wrote into the ground.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It's interesting that when there is a serious error in deifying a human being, you become coy and talk about being a sinner and you can't cast the first stone. But when you perceive an assumed error (ie you think it's an error when in reality it's not) in a Protestant, you are quick to point it out. Is there something in Orthodox churches that teaches you to give special obeisance to RCs and to oppose Protestants?

The beamishboy stands ready to do battle. His hand rests on the handle of his sword and his stallion snorts ferociously.

Let us ride forth together!!!!

Nahum 3:2 A sound of a Whip, and sound of a quaking wheel, and horse galloping, and chariot leaping. A horseman mounting. And blazing sword, and flashing spear, and many wounded and mass of corpses and there is no end to bodies. [Isaiah 28 "scourge"]

Reve 15:1 And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Messengers, seven, having blows/stripes/plhgaV <4127>, seven, the last, that in them is finished the fury of the God.

 

[beamishboy]

Do you venerate him?

Peace,

Anglian

Let's see.

1. I don't make icons of him.
2. I don't make idols of him.
3. I don't bow down to his idol or kneel to it.
4. I don't pray to him.
5. I don't parade his idol round town.
6. I don't claim to see miraculous tears flowing from the eyes of Santa Simon's idol.
7. I don't pray to him.
8. I don't make shrines to him.
9. I don't make ALTARS to him. Santa Simon has a thread to show that the Pope speaks of Mary's altar.
10. I don't come up with the prayer for the consecration of the sacred heart of Simon.
11. I don't say Hail Simon 50 times as I count the beads of the rosary.
12. I don't do half a million other things.

So, can't you see? You ask if I venerate him. The word "venerate" has taken on a whole new meaning and it's a bit like a veil. It hides what the process of veneration actually is. When you start listing the "items" of veneration, you're bound to shock anyone.

I pray that the scales will fall off the eyes of those who earnestly seek the Lord.

 

[beamishboy]

Let's see.

1. I don't make icons of him.
2. I don't make idols of him.
3. I don't bow down to his idol or kneel to it.
4. I don't pray to him.
5. I don't parade his idol round town.
6. I don't claim to see miraculous tears flowing from the eyes of Santa Simon's idol.
7. I don't pray to him.
8. I don't make shrines to him.
9. I don't make ALTARS to him. Santa Simon has a thread to show that the Pope speaks of Mary's altar.
10. I don't come up with the prayer for the consecration of the sacred heart of Simon.
11. I don't say Hail Simon 50 times as I count the beads of the rosary.
12. I don't do half a million other things.

So, can't you see? You ask if I venerate him. The word "venerate" has taken on a whole new meaning and it's a bit like a veil. It hides what the process of veneration actually is. When you start listing the "items" of veneration, you're bound to shock anyone.

I pray that the scales will fall off the eyes of those who earnestly seek the Lord.

And more importantly, I do not call Simon a "co-redeemer with Christ". That's really terrible!!! It tops the list actually.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And more importantly, I do not call Simon a "co-redeemer with Christ". That's really terrible!!! It tops the list actually.

Greetings bm. You really need to take this to the Mariology board. Lotz of juicy stuff on that Board.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7145764&page=58
Was Mary venerated by the Apostles?

Originally Posted by Hentenza

Moved to Mariology.
​

This sucks...

I thought it was CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY.

Funny how what I see as Christian Theology is treated like something not Christian. After all isn't that what GENERAL THEOLOGY is for? ALL CHRISTIANS.

This move totally took away the purpose of my thread.

 

[simonthezealot]

I hope not...Lets change topics now, please? this is very uncomfortable.
Help me out here, Pope LLOJ...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I hope not...Lets change topics now, please? this is very uncomfortable.
Help me out here, Pope LLOJ...

I am only a "brick in the wall"

1 Corin 3:10 According to the grace of the GOD the being given to me as a wise chief-artificer-craftsman/arci-tektwn <753> a foundation I lay, another yet is building on it, each one yet let be heeding! how he is building on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SlKA2Rgq20&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lunIGnMpETs&feature=related

 

[Philothei]

Why is there this compelling need to make her special?

Cause she is the mother of someone who is the Son of God .... Do not tell me if you were the "brother" of Christ you would not be consider by others special??? We are humans....still regardless be brothers in Christ we are still not blood relatives.... Who is more special to you ? your "mum" or a stranger's mom?

What in the Bible makes you so crazy about her?

-accepting the calling from God and "consenting" her will to God's will... even if she knew that her son will be enduring physical death in a cruel way. God entrusted her to be used as a "vessel" of His Grace...
-seeing her son be crucified... knowing that he could have "escaped" death but in her heart ...I just cannot imagine her trama... and i have great respect for her of all she endured for God... She is a hero to me...
-She was honored among the Apostles, Christ at the cross pointed out to John to take care of her... I do not think the Gospel would talk about her like that if she was "unimportant" and not "special" to the salvific plan of God.
-In Pentecost Theotokos is present recieving the Holy Spirit... Why would it be mentioned if not important?

There's more in the NT about any one of the Apostles a million times over than Mary. Why not carry Paul's idol all over town and say our Hail Pauls, our prayer for the consecration of the sacred heart of Paul, etc etc?

Because Paul did not participate in the incarnation of Christ as Theotokos did... He consent to evangelize for Christ when Christ called him he consented...But Theotokos consent was directly to God not to Christ. This is a special calling and honor... that is why I think she is "special" ....

Because the "incarnation" was a special event that signifies Christ coming into the world... It is Theotokos piety and consent that serve an example to all of us... how humbly she accepted that her son will suffer and die on the cross....

Now, I'm not advocating deifying Paul. I just hope to show how silly people's obsession with Mary really is. It's natural. It answers our need for a softer image when we pray. The Judeo-Christian culture is to patristic and masculine. Some of us long for a goddess figure but we dare not say it because it's anathema in this Judeo-Christian culture. That's how the devotion to Mary came about.

I never saw Theotokos as an "obsession" I only see her holding her Son and my Saviour Jesus Christ... never alone. I never see her as a "feminine" symbol... rather as a mother of Christ enduring the cross of her son... If that is a "bad" example for Christians to follow I would like to know why....

What you suggest is taking Mary in her own right away from the incarnation and elevate her into godess... yeah that would be distorting her place in the salvific plan of God... And I am sure that is not what we are talking about here....

 

[Gwendolyn]

LOL, BB does not appear to know the difference between Orthodox and Catholic beliefs/practices...

 

[WarriorAngel]

And more importantly, I do not call Simon a "co-redeemer with Christ". That's really terrible!!! It tops the list actually.

I should chuckle at what you think 'co-redeemer' means.
Truly, simon could never give birth to Christ - so yeah, he would not be the helper in bringing the Redeemor to the world.

 

[Anglian]

Dear Beamishboy,

You write:

It's interesting that when there is a serious error in deifying a human being, you become coy and talk about being a sinner and you can't cast the first stone. But when you perceive an assumed error (ie you think it's an error when in reality it's not) in a Protestant, you are quick to point it out. Is there something in Orthodox churches that teaches you to give special obeisance to RCs and to oppose Protestants?

which I am sure possesses a meaning to you. If you think the Catholics deify the Blessed Theotokos, take it up with them, but do, please, leave me out of your Roman fever.

The beamishboy stands ready to do battle. His hand rests on the handle of his sword and his stallion snorts ferociously.

The Beamishboy would do well to beat his sword into a ploughshare, and heed the advice of His Lord to love even those who wrong him.

This thread is about the ECFs, and as you will know, many of them also venerated the Blessed Theotokos, just as your own archbishop does. Do not confuse this with whatever it is you suppose the Catholics teach about the Virgin.

We do what it says in the book - call her 'blessed'. No more; no less.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[Rick Otto]

happy

 

[MamaZ]

Were is the command to calle her blessed? I don't see it there. Elizabeth had no Ideah Mary was also carring a child. Mary knew she was but we don't read in scripture where Elizabeth did. Elizabeths husband had a hard time believing what the Angel said.. He was struck dumb.. So when Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit she knew there was something different. Her glee about Jesus finally coming as promised was probably more exilarating that we can even imagine. But in all of this no where are we as people commanded to call Mary anything..

 

[Rick Otto]

Let's see.

1. I don't make icons of him.
2. I don't make idols of him.
3. I don't bow down to his idol or kneel to it.
4. I don't pray to him.
5. I don't parade his idol round town.
6. I don't claim to see miraculous tears flowing from the eyes of Santa Simon's idol.
7. I don't pray to him.
8. I don't make shrines to him.
9. I don't make ALTARS to him. Santa Simon has a thread to show that the Pope speaks of Mary's altar.
10. I don't come up with the prayer for the consecration of the sacred heart of Simon.
11. I don't say Hail Simon 50 times as I count the beads of the rosary.
12. I don't do half a million other things.

So, can't you see? You ask if I venerate him. The word "venerate" has taken on a whole new meaning and it's a bit like a veil. It hides what the process of veneration actually is. When you start listing the "items" of veneration, you're bound to shock anyone.

I pray that the scales will fall off the eyes of those who earnestly seek the Lord.

Amen.

 

[Rick Otto]

Indeed, we are told in Scripture that St. Joseph was minded to put her away quietly so as not to shame her, and only desisted when the angel of the Lord told him to.

I will call him happy forever.
I will make statues & parade them.
I will carve beads & pray to him.
I will bestow the co-redeemer title on him.
I will hyper-duliate him until his statue bleeds.
I will call anyone who objects silly or senile depending on their age.
I will I will Iwill. (yoost keeeeeding)

 

[WarriorAngel]

Were is the command to calle her blessed? I don't see it there. Elizabeth had no Ideah Mary was also carring a child. Mary knew she was but we don't read in scripture where Elizabeth did. Elizabeths husband had a hard time believing what the Angel said.. He was struck dumb.. So when Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit she knew there was something different. Her glee about Jesus finally coming as promised was probably more exilarating that we can even imagine. But in all of this no where are we as people commanded to call Mary anything..

Luke 1
48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

I believe we went thru this before...
I am most certain we did.

 

[Rick Otto]

Doesn't exactly look like a command to me.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Rick do you know anything about iconclasts?
Or the history thereof?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Doesn't exactly look like a command to me.

So, this part of scriptures doesnt matter?

She prophecied that ALL generations [of the followers of her Son] would call her blessed.

O yea, thats exactly what she meant.