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The "Origen" of the Modern Versions

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AVBunyan

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Many people today believe all the new versions are:
1. Just updated King James Bibles using modern English
2. Based up the oldest and best manuscripts.

If you believe the above then you have been lied to.
All modern versions can be traced back to a lost philosopher named Origen in the 3rd century A.D.

There are 2 basic lines of “bibles”:
1. One line (King James Bible) is based upon manuscripts that have their origins in Asia Minor – this line makes up 95% of the available manuscripts and agrees with the King James – True spiritual revival and the changing of lives follow this line.
2. The other line (All modern versions) is based upon manuscripts that have its origins in Alexandria, Egypt – this line makes up less than 5% of the available manuscripts and disagrees with the King James in thousands of places.

So, the majority of new versions are based upon less than 5% of available manuscripts and these 5% are corrupt.

Now – how did these new bibles come into existence?

1. It started with a man named Adamantius Origen – 3rd century philosopher (Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,) from Alexandria, Egypt. Origen ran a school of heathen philosophers, smart men but heathen non-the-less.

2. Origen’s beliefs – didn’t believe the first three chapters of Genesis were literal, questioned the deity of Christ for he thought he was a created being (hence John 1:18 in modern versions), works salvation, allegorized most of Bible, and much more.

3. Origen decided to get into the Bible translation business. Origen took the Hebrew OT and came up with a hexapla (6-column scroll) to write out his new translation with the help of several other lost (most likely) philosophers. Each heathen philosopher took the Old Testament and wrote out in a column what he thought the OT meant in Greek.
Column 1 – The Hebrew OT
Column 2 – A Greek transliteration of the Hebrew OT
Column 3 – By Aquilla an apostate Jew
Column 4 – By Symmachus the Ebionite (Works salvation)
Column 5 – By Origen himself
Column 6 – By another Ebionite named Theodotian

These fellas just manufactured a Greek OT based upon their own distorted views of the OT. Origen’s 5th column is actually the famous LXX or Septuagint. The manuscripts Vaticanus and Siniaticus are believed to have come from Origen’s 5th column.
The translations were written in the Classical Greek style (fancier and more complicated), not Koine Greek (the common spoken language which the Bibles of the real New Testament were written in).

The above is how the OT got corrupted – see sources below for further reading:
a. Ira Price “The Ancestry of Our English Bible” – p. 75
b. Gleason Archer “Survey of the Old Testament” pp. 39-40, pp. 229
c. Philip Schaff, “History of the Christian Church”, Vol II
d. H.G.G. Herklotts – “Hexapla” – Origen put the “Hebrew text in the first column; in the second column, the Hebrew text was transliteralted into Greek characters. Thirdly came the translation of Aquilla, fourth, that of Symmachus, fifth, the LXXX…”
e. Dr. Friedrich Bleek's works on “Introductory to the Old Testament”

Now what about the New Testament – how did it get corrupted also?
Since copies of Vaticanus (Origen’s 5th column) also contains the NT (minus most of the book of Genesis, Hebrews 9:14 to the end, the Pastoral Epistles, and the book of Revelation) it appears that Origen and his translating committee got a hold of a NT that was circulating around Asia Minor and messed with it also. So now there is the 5th column and a corrupt NT together in one manuscript. Again, Vaticanus and Siniaticus are believed copies of this manuscript - Origen’s 5th column.

4. This hexphala (6 column work) and corruptions of the NT sat around doing nothing (because nobody wanted them) until Constantine was looking for some Old Testament Bibles for his new ecumenical denomination. He asked his aid, Eusebius, where he could get some new Bibles. Esebius got all excited and said, “I know just the place!” So, he scampers down to Egypt, and gets 50 copies based upon Origen’s 5th column and his NT works from the hexapla he created.

5. Eusebius takes these 50 copies of Origen’s 5th column and brings them back to Constantine. Vaticanus and Sinaiaticus could very well have been one of these original copies. They were written on velum scrolls, which are why they stayed in tact so long, plus, nobody read them – God didn’t have His hand on them. The true scriptures were written on papyrus and wasted away because people read and copied them – in other words God used them.

6. From here they (or copies) end up in Rome with its religion (Catholic).

7. From here they (or copies) circulate around Italy, Spain, and France (Roman Catholic).

8. Round the mid 1400’s or so these manuscripts form the basis for the Douay-Rheims Version (Roman Catholic).

9. From there the Catholics take their version and go to the Americas and other continents “converting” the heathen.

10. The rest of the “Alexandrian bibles” stay locked up in Rome and monasteries. God didn’t want them circulated to the common people anyway.

11. These manuscripts (“bibles”) were available to the KJV translators in 1604-1611 and they ignored them because they knew false manuscripts when they saw them

12. In England around 1881 a conference was called to “update” the AV1611. Two “Christian” bible critics (Westcott and Hort) said they had the oldest and best manuscripts. Where do you think they got them? You got it – Vaticanus and Sinaiticus type stuff. They snuck them into the revision committee saying these were the oldest and most accurate and therefore the best of the bunch.

15. From this committee you got the RV 1881.

16. America joined in with their own “KJV updating” committee in 1901 – they used the same corrupted texts the RV came from and they came up with the ASV1901 – from there it went to the RSV, NASV, Good News, Living Bible, NRSV, the New New New RSV, NIV, and all the rest of the new versions.

Well there it is – I’m sure there will be some grumbling in the barracks and I’m sure many will dispute my history lesson but that is how I see it – the new versions are basically Catholic bibles – I’m sure Rome is tickled. How do you folks like your Roman Catholic bibles? Your “bibles” line up very nicely with Rome’s – mine doesn’t.

Summary – Your modern versions are nothing more than translations based upon the works of a lost heathen/philosopher Origen.

There are 2 lines of bibles today:
1. One came from Asia Minor and is the basis for the King James – the right one that God used.
2. The other line originated from Alexandria Egypt and is basically the work of Origen and his translating committee – the wrong one that God has not used - all new “bibles” came from this set. This line forms the basis for the Catholic Bibles – if you read any modern version you are basically reading a Catholic bible!

If you have any other bible besides a King James Bible your bible came from the wrong line. Sorry, but my momma always said, “Life is not always a bed of roses.”

God bless
 

BigNorsk

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I think the biggest problem with your version is the Hexapla was the Old Testament in several versions. It's whole purpose seems to have been to compare the Hebrew Masoretic text to the Greek texts. It didn't have much of an effect on the Western church nor does it enter much into any debate on the KJV because the KJV and almost all modern translations primarily use the Masoretic text. The KJV varies from the Masoretic text in some places and so do modern version.

The Hexapla doesn't figure into the Greek behind the New Testament. At least not in any meaningful way I can see.

Isn't it interesting how the Byzantines whom you point to as so certain for textual basis on the New Testament, got their Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint from Alexandria? But it doesn't matter much because unless you have one or another of the couple translations based on the Septuagint, you don't see the Greek Old Testament from Alexandria.

If the terrible manuscripts you describe had an effect on anyone, it was the Byzantines for they were the ones to use them. Even the Latin Vulgate came from the Hebrew Old Testament.

It's true that Vaticanus and Sinaiticanus have their problems and the system proposed by Westcott and Hort isn't actually used anymore. I think it would be fair to say they stressed those two too much. But as new manuscripts such as the early papyrus fragments continue to bring additional support, the evidence continues to mount that they were basically correct.

It's simply a matter of doing the best you can with what you have at the time and realizing that others will come after and improve. Entirely consistent with exactly how the translators of the KJV laid out their understandings and hopes.

Marv
 
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LamorakDesGalis

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Summary – Your modern versions are nothing more than translations based upon the works of a lost heathen/philosopher Origen.

Sorry, the above statement has been refuted numerous times and shown to be false.


LDG
 
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LamorakDesGalis

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Once in the KJV preface was included The Translators to the Reader, which stated:

"we do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession... containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God"

So even the KJV translators acknowledged that English Bible translations are the word of God.


LDG
 
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HuntingMan

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If you have any other bible besides a King James Bible your bible came from the wrong line. Sorry, but my momma always said, “Life is not always a bed of roses.”
Very funny.
You DO know that the KJV is NOT the only bible in existence that ISNT based on the Minority Texts, correct?

And ever hear of the Johannine Comma ?
The Majority Texts that the KJV boasts being from doesnt actually support the comma ;)
While the KJV is a wonderful bible it is not a perfect translation, Im afraid.

This is the same old KJVonlyism rhetoric.

I am a Greek Majority Text man, but there are a number of bibles based on those texts that ARENT the KJV.


.
 
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spiritman

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Very funny.
You DO know that the KJV is NOT the only bible in existence that ISNT based on the Minority Texts, correct?

And ever hear of the Johannine Comma ?
The Majority Texts that the KJV boasts being from doesnt actually support the comma ;)
While the KJV is a wonderful bible it is not a perfect translation, Im afraid.

This is the same old KJVonlyism rhetoric.

I am a Greek Majority Text man, but there are a number of bibles based on those texts that ARENT the KJV.


.

Which one's are based on the Majority Texts?
Thanks
 
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