If there was a general election tommorrow how would you vote?

[The-Doctor]

If there was a general election tommorrow which party would you vote for and why?

 

[ScottishJohn]

I would vote lib dem. I feel that it says a great deal about our country that so many people would be willing to elect a chap who has less than 8 years experience of being an MP, and has yet to come up with anything other than criticism. It is easy to be in opposition. Much harder to actually stand for something. On the odd occassion that he has tried to stand for anything - like pulling out of the Conservative EU grouping, or not opening new Grammar Schools, his party have shown the same tendency for self destruction and he has had to back down.

He would be a disaster.

What is there to lose by voting lib dem? I mean have the last 80 years of red and blue really been so great, that a flash of yellow would be inconcievable?

 

[Pogue]

I'd vote Green, almost certainly.

 

[cyberlizard]

i would deface my paper, that way my vote is counted, which is better than not voting at all.

all politicians seem self serving and out for their own ends.... what really annoys me though is that although the MP's are supposed to represent the views of their constituents, they often get bullied into towing the party line by use of the whip. I think this practice should be banned and all votes should be free.


Steve

 

[Kattylove]

What is there to lose by voting lib dem? I mean have the last 80 years of red and blue really been so great, that a flash of yellow would be inconcievable?

I completely agree.

 

[ScottishJohn]

i would deface my paper, that way my vote is counted, which is better than not voting at all.

all politicians seem self serving and out for their own ends.... what really annoys me though is that although the MP's are supposed to represent the views of their constituents, they often get bullied into towing the party line by use of the whip. I think this practice should be banned and all votes should be free.


Steve

That is the Lib Dem practise. All parliamentary votes are treated as 'conscience' votes. The Party whip tries to persuade MPs of the validity of whatever stance the party has taken, but their is no 'withdrawing of the whip' for those who choose not to toe the party line. They are free to vote as they see fit, and more importantly free to represent their constituents without being constrained by the party.

Just one of the reasons I support the Lib Dems.

 

[The-Doctor]

interesting that no one has voted Labour yet!

 

[bunced]

I voted labour. Though they are going further and further away from what I like, and I am being drawn more and more to the Greens

 

[cailan]

Tory. The only alternative to Labour, and they're not Labour. Enough said.

 

[Allister]

What is there to lose by voting lib dem?

Looking at their track record in Cornwall then quite a lot. As a teenager I was a strong advocate of the Lib Dems and even now I am a liberal (lower case), but I will never support the LB Party again. If they got into power they would screw over their manifesto and voters just like Labour or Tories.

I'm voting Mebyon Kernow.

Which party would I want to govern the UK?

Looking at the current candidates I think I'll plump for the Monster Raving loony Party!

 

[ScottishJohn]

If they got into power they would screw over their manifesto and voters just like Labour or Tories.

That's a fairly unqualified statement!

The Lib Dems are the only party which remain true to their democratic principles rather than just pay them lip service.

 

[bunced]

The Lib Dems are the only party which remain true to their democratic principles rather than just pay them lip service.

That one's pretty unqualified too

 

[rizzla]

Democratic principles? Aye right.

Nicol Stepehen the Fiberal Unionist:

"The Scottish Liberal Democrats are a Unionist Party, and the Scottish Parliament has a clear Unionist majority."​

Nicol Stephen the FibNat:

"We want a stronger Scottish Parliament; a Parliament with revenue raising responsibilities, with the greater powers needed to build the Scottish economy and boost Scottish jobs. We can't go on with a Parliament that just spends money given to it by another government."​

 

[ScottishJohn]

That one's pretty unqualified too

It is qualified earlier in the thread, and in previous conversations. However, we can recap!

All Lib Dem policy has to be voted on by party membership. This is not the case with either the Tories or Labour where it is decided on by an elite.

All Lib Dem MPs are free to represent their constituencies in parliament, every vote is treated as a vote of conscience. Labour and Tory MPs have to toe the party line.

 

[ScottishJohn]

Democratic principles? Aye right.

Nicol Stephen: "The Scottish Liberal Democrats are a Unionist Party, and the Scottish Parliament has a clear Unionist majority."
Nicol Stephen "We want a stronger Scottish Parliament; a Parliament with revenue raising responsibilities, with the greater powers needed to build the Scottish economy and boost Scottish jobs. We can't go on with a Parliament that just spends money given to it by another government."

I would expect a nationalist to see a contradiction there, as they have difficulty coming to grasps with the reality of a Scottish Parliament which is part of the Union. There is no contradiction. Both statements are completely compatible with one another. A Scottish Parliament which is part of the Union is what the people of Scotland want, and on some level the nationalists know this, which is why they have yet to show the backbone to put their convictions to the test and have their referendum - they know they would lose.

Nicol Steven for all his many faults, (I'm delighted that he is standing down), at least recognises the problem with the current parliament, which is more than we can say for the nationalists who are quite happy spending money from Whitehall, while all the time pretending we could maintain the same level of spending without Whitehall.

 

[rizzla]

Chances are we’ll still only agree to disagree, but I’m open to persuasion so;

I would expect a nationalist to see a contradiction there

Not only nationalists.

as they have difficulty coming to grasps with the reality of a Scottish Parliament which is part of the Union.

Indeed we do. And even after some 300 years this ‘reality’ is still no easier to swallow, as some of our English counterparts are starting to discover.

There is no contradiction. Both statements are completely compatible with one another.

Eh? Their only real similarity is both statements are targeted spin. If the Lab-Lib pact had continued in Scotland, and a few senior Libs bought off with gongs to encourage a similar stitch-up in Westminster to keep the Conservatives out, then its possible both parliaments would have been singing from the same hymn sheet. The SNP put the kibosh on that in Edinburgh. Its just a pity that there isnt an English equivalent who could have done the same in London.

A Scottish Parliament which is part of the Union is what the people of Scotland want,

Really? I guess we must move in different circles, for the people of Scotland I know only want to be able to afford to drive to work or heat their house. Some are taking the longer view and want to know if they’ll still have a job or house by Christmas. A minority few are questioning what the 3 parties have done, are doing and will do to help and concluded…..not a lot.

and on some level the nationalists know this,

Yes, nationalists know how granddads voting habbits and sectarianism has influenced past voting results. We also know our negative image in the media ie hairyassed haggis munching highlanders. To put not to fine a point on it though, granddads deed, sectarianism is dieing, and folk are waking up to the fact that those same hairyassed highlanders have somehow turned England into a colony, while a nationalist minority government have performed better than expected.

which is why they have yet to show the backbone to put their convictions to the test and have their referendum - they know they would lose.

Of course the SNP party would loose a referendum just now. It was always expected that given a few years to demonstrate how politics should be run, the referendum would be much closer; that’s why it was put in their manifesto. But no one anticipated that the Unionists would make such a screaming mess of things.

Nicol Steven for all his many faults, (I'm delighted that he is standing down),

I’m not. When a politician bails ship then it’s a safe bet its going to crash. Cant see him with his trousers down (perish the thought) but backhanders? If hes corrupt then it would be nice to see him with his fingers burnt.

at least recognises the problem with the current parliament, which is more than we can say for the nationalists who are quite happy spending money from Whitehall, while all the time pretending we could maintain the same level of spending without Whitehall.

Okay, in reverse, I’m not going to go into GERS. Suffice to say I happen to believe that Scotland puts in more than its given credit for. But that’s still irrelevant for to me the right to self-determination is priceless. But its interesting to see you, a Unionist, admit there is a problem with this Union. Personally, I would like to see a United Kingdoms and the three main parties begin to work out the best ways our countries can work together. As yet, I’ve not seen anything other than half-baked attempts to prop up a dysfunctional union and heard absolutely no reasons why this union should continue.


Off topic; scary how time flys; seems like only yesterday you were talking about being a proud dad. Now it looks like you’re going to have your hands full chasing him all over the place. Been there, got the tee-shirt (complete with the yellow stains down the left shoulder). No sympathy though - its a totally magic time which passes far to quickly. Enjoy it when it lasts.

 

[Stephen Gash]

I certainly would NOT vote Liberal Democrat. Never has a party been better misnamed than the Liberal Democrats. They are not liberal and certainly not democratic. As a party they believe in local democracy provided that democracy is local to Brussels. They are in the forefront of the regional carve-up of England in the face of indisputable hostility to them from the English people.

I am deeply suspicious of people styling themselves as "liberals" because in reality they have a list as long as your tax bill of all the things they wish to ban.

The first thing a "liberal" does is create a law stopping free speech.

 

[Stephen Gash]

This is supposedly a Christian forum, yet none of the three named parties in this poll would do a thing to stop/reverse sharia law in England.

 

[ScottishJohn]

Chances are we’ll still only agree to disagree, but I’m open to persuasion so;

So lets go!

Not only nationalists.

mmmm pretty much only nationalists.

I mean what is so contradictory about a wanting a strong devolved parliament within the union? Can unionists not support devolution? I think you nationalists are on your own with this one.

Indeed we do. And even after some 300 years this ‘reality’ is still no easier to swallow, as some of our English counterparts are starting to discover.

We've had 113 years of a Scottish parliament within the union. 103 between the union of the crowns and the union of the parliaments, and 10 since the new Scottish parliament was established.

Eh? Their only real similarity is both statements are targeted spin.

I didn't say they are similar, I said they are compatible. You appear to think they contradict one another. The simple fact is that they do not. As for being targetted spin, that may well be your assessment, but it is a fairly meaningless label which could be applied to almost any statement. These two statements could also be a true reflection of Nicol Stephen's desire for the Scottish Parliament. How do define spin?

If the Lab-Lib pact had continued in Scotland, and a few senior Libs bought off with gongs to encourage a similar stitch-up in Westminster to keep the Conservatives out, then its possible both parliaments would have been singing from the same hymn sheet. The SNP put the kibosh on that in Edinburgh. Its just a pity that there isnt an English equivalent who could have done the same in London.

You've lost me there. The People with the monopoly on power are the Tories and Labour. In many constituencies across the land you could put an animal in a red or blue rosette and they would be returned. The problem is that 50% of people engage in politics once every 4 years, and expect that to be enough. The trivialisation of politics is a problem which is either to be challenged, or if you are cynical enough, to be used to your advantage. My personal opinion is that the Lib Dems are less successful than other parties because they tend to focus on actual policy and politics, which many people find boring.

Really? I guess we must move in different circles, for the people of Scotland I know only want to be able to afford to drive to work or heat their house. Some are taking the longer view and want to know if they’ll still have a job or house by Christmas. A minority few are questioning what the 3 parties have done, are doing and will do to help and concluded…..not a lot.

Lets stick to tangible evidence. 17% of the electorate voted for the SNP at the last election.

As for the problems you mention, they are global problems which all developed nations are struggling with. I'd be interested to hear exactly how you think the SNP would do better!

Yes, nationalists know how granddads voting habbits and sectarianism has influenced past voting results. We also know our negative image in the media ie hairyassed haggis munching highlanders. To put not to fine a point on it though, granddads deed, sectarianism is dieing, and folk are waking up to the fact that those same hairyassed highlanders have somehow turned England into a colony, while a nationalist minority government have performed better than expected.

17%

Of course the SNP party would loose a referendum just now.

Exactly.

It was always expected that given a few years to demonstrate how politics should be run, the referendum would be much closer; that’s why it was put in their manifesto. But no one anticipated that the Unionists would make such a screaming mess of things.

So you think that a government which has characterised its first year with broken promise after broken promise (adopting PPP when it promised not to, failing to get rid of student debt, failing the fishermen, failing to produce a budget which adds up - SNP specialty!) is a good start for increasing your 17% vote?

I’m not. When a politician bails ship then it’s a safe bet its going to crash.

He's not bailing ship, he is standing down from the leadership. He remains a Lib Dem MSP.

Cant see him with his trousers down (perish the thought) but backhanders? If hes corrupt then it would be nice to see him with his fingers burnt.

That is just idle speculation. The man is rude, and I don't think much of his leadership. That is all I have against him.

Okay, in reverse, I’m not going to go into GERS. Suffice to say I happen to believe that Scotland puts in more than its given credit for.

It doesn't matter how you count it, we've even gone into Niall's jackanory figures, and they still put us pretty much on the starvation line.

But that’s still irrelevant for to me the right to self-determination is priceless.

So hold your referendum!

Or is the right to self determination only priceless when you might win?

But its interesting to see you, a Unionist, admit there is a problem with this Union. Personally, I would like to see a United Kingdoms and the three main parties begin to work out the best ways our countries can work together. As yet, I’ve not seen anything other than half-baked attempts to prop up a dysfunctional union and heard absolutely no reasons why this union should continue.

I recognise a problem with the parliament, I didn't say anything about the union. Having said that, I don't know if it is possible to have any political model which has no problems.

One current benefit of the union is that we are being repaid ( to the tune of at least 6 billion a year) for the damage Thatcher did to the nation. Something which the north of England is not getting, despite being hit just as hard by Thatcher. The SNP would let the rest of Britain off the hook.

Off topic; scary how time flys; seems like only yesterday you were talking about being a proud dad. Now it looks like you’re going to have your hands full chasing him all over the place. Been there, got the tee-shirt (complete with the yellow stains down the left shoulder). No sympathy though - its a totally magic time which passes far to quickly. Enjoy it when it lasts.

I'm having a great time. His mum was away last weekend, first time she's left him for any length of time. Was hard work, but we got through it!

 

[ScottishJohn]

I certainly would NOT vote Liberal Democrat. Never has a party been better misnamed than the Liberal Democrats. They are not liberal

You'll need to explain that one.

and certainly not democratic. As a party they believe in local democracy provided that democracy is local to Brussels.

I'll put you right there - the Lib Dem policy on Europe is a referendum - can't see much that is not democratic about that.

They are in the forefront of the regional carve-up of England in the face of indisputable hostility to them from the English people.

If you mean devolved regional assemblies, then that is also pretty democratic. And they won't happen unless people vote for them...

I am deeply suspicious of people styling themselves as "liberals" because in reality they have a list as long as your tax bill of all the things they wish to ban.

I'm guessing you read the Daily Mail.

You might want to look up from the paper once in a while and look out the window. The two accounts don't match.

The first thing a "liberal" does is create a law stopping free speech.

Given that the Liberals have not been in government since the 1920s, I'd be interested in how you come to this conclusion.