Even Jesus did not heal at will ...

[PK For Real]

The issue of faith is an age old debate that many so called "faith healers" have taken advantage of. The fact of the matter is this: God will not heal anyone whom he does not deem worthy. I have been in church all of my life and I have seen some miraculous healing, however, those healing feats are purely a result of God's will to do so. I have seen people with the genuine gift of faith. People that really believed that God can and will do anything. Yet those individuals are unable to will God's power to do something that he doesn't want to do. We see God as having two types of wills, his perfect will and his permissive will. God's divine will is what HE want's to happen in our lives and his permissive will is what he allows to happen. Permissive will is activated mostly out of His soft heart and His pleading to the cries of his people. Even though his divine will may at the time state otherwise and of course he has other plans, he will allow many times what we ask because as any good parent should be, he wants to see his children happy with what they perceive as happiness. Ultimately his perfect will be accomplished.

We need look any further than Hezekiah. It was time for Hezekiah to die. It was God's perfect will for him to do so. He prayed to God for more years and before he got too far after praying, God granted him 15 more years. So in the end, God's perfect will was done. In another instance we see the opposite with Apostle Paul. He prayed for many years for God to remove the thorn from his flesh and God told him no, "My grace is sufficient for you." Paul, as we know was a man of tremendous faith, yet his faith was not able to supercede the perfect will of God. Even if God grants a reprieve from his perfect will, He still wields his permissive will which is still His will.

The point is that no matter how much we believe, it all boils down to what God wants. Yes there are times when God will prolong his inevetable perfect will and offer us his permissive will, but in the end His Will will be done.

 

[GrapeGirl]

Even Jesus did not heal at will …

Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” (John 5.19)
​

What do you think?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

I think that's a really nice way to tell me I was wrong.

 

[Angel*Eyes]

we see someone who doesn't get healed and instead of hearing specifically from God on the matter - we just assume that if they didn't get healed, God must not want them to be.

Good point!

I heard of this guy who was paralyzed for 17 years, had multiple sclerosis,diabetes, high cholesterol, high triglycerides, and scar tissue on his brain. His plan was to suffer gloriously for God.

He accepted the fact that he wasn't going to get healed and even started writing a book on how to die gracefully.

Things changed after hearing a sermon titled " Healing is for you".
When he started to read the healing scriptures in the bible, his faith increased. And one day he ended up getting miraculously healed!


My personal story-
I suffered from a condition for years which cut out the likelihood for me to ever have kids. I accepted my condition and believed that it wasn't God's Will for me not to have kids. So, I was planning to adopt kids whenever I got married. Suddenly, I got healed after dealing with
the problem for more than four years.

 

[JimB]

we see someone who doesn't get healed and instead of hearing specifically from God on the matter - we just assume that if they didn't get healed, God must not want them to be.

Or we assume the opposite. I mean. this sword cuts both ways.

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

 

[pinetree]

I dont know if this person had faith or not?:o

 

[Angel*Eyes]

Therefore, Faith is a confidence that God will actually someday heal us here on earth or in Heaven

Faith is the title deed to the future. Faith is the foundation believing that the promises of God yet to come to pass will come to pass.

... Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. {Matthew 6:10} In heaven, there is no lack, no sin, and no sickness.

The good news is that we don't have to wait until we get to heaven to experience the healing God has promised!!


Jim,

If it's not God's Will to heal everyone on the earth, then why should we expect everyone in heaven to be healed?

The above scripture clearly shows that God wants His will to be done in heaven and on the Earth.

 

[JimB]

... Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. {Matthew 6:10} In heaven, there is no lack, no sin, and no sickness.

The good news is that we don't have to wait until we get to heaven to experience the healing God has promised!!


Jim,

If it's not God's Will to heal everyone on the earth, then why should we expect everyone in heaven to be healed?

The above scripture clearly shows that God wants His will to be done in heaven and on the Earth.

Neither are there churches in heaven, nor television ministries, healing, salvation, heartache, pain, tears and a lot of other things.

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

 

[Angel*Eyes]

Neither are there churches in heaven, nor television ministries, healing, salvation, heartache, pain, tears and a lot of other things.

~Jim

God wants His Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven (not the opposite way around).

Since there is no sickness in Heaven, it is God's will that believers on earth should be healed of all sickness.

 

[JimB]

God wants His Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven (not the opposite way around).

Since there is no sickness in Heaven, it is God's will that believers on earth should be healed of all sickness.

If that is so (as you state it), please explain why so many of God’s children are sick, stay sick and why our bodies wear out as we age?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

 

[Angel*Eyes]

Problem: Sin brought sickness.
Solution: blood of Jesus


People see themselves carrying sickness rather than seeing it being carried by Jesus on the cross..

 

[JimB]

Problem: Sin brought sickness.
Solution: blood of Jesus


People see themselves carrying sickness rather than seeing it being carried by Jesus on the cross..

But … please explain why so many of God’s children—who are bought by the blood of Jesus—are sick, stay sick and why our bodies wear out as we age?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

 

[Angel*Eyes]

But … please explain why so many of God’s children—who are bought by the blood of Jesus—sick, stay sick

lack of knowledge of position in Christ

 

[JimfromOhio]

I didn't say anything in my post about the trinity, faith, or praying in the Holy Spirit. None of what you wrote here pertains to anything that I wrote. I was talking about the desire and will of God, not the trinity.
Perhaps you'd like to try again?

I am going to start with David, learning from David's experiences, God meets us in our heart rather than our mind therefore we need to focus on the "heart of the matter". "David son of Jesse is a man after my own heart, for he will do everything I want him to do." Acts 13:22 & 1 Samuel 13:14 (NLT). There are many reasons why God proclaimed that David's heart is what He desire from us. Reading 1 John 3:16, This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

One good example of David's love:
David's best friend, Jonathan son of Saul had a son named Mephibosheth who was lame in both feet. What did David do with this young man?

Read 2 Samuel 9, I will quote 3 verses of the chapter:

Quote:
"Don't be afraid," David said to him, "for I will surely show you kindness for the sake of your father Jonathan. I will restore to you all the land that belonged to your grandfather Saul, and you will always eat at my table."

Mephibosheth bowed down and said, "What is your servant, that you should notice a dead dog like me?"

Mephibosheth ate at David's table like one of the king's sons.

Regarding healing....
In Ecclesiastes says "A right time to get sick and another to heal."

Our hearts are like a garden and must be kept free from weeds and insects. To expect the fruits and flowers bloom in an untended heart is to misunderstand completely the processes of Grace and God's will. We need to understand what God desires, not what man desires. Proverbs 13:4
The sluggard craves and gets nothing, but the desires of the diligent are fully satisfied.

I don't really know if its God's will for me to be healed however, biblically, I do KNOW what God wants from me according to His written word. By faith, can anyone able to walk on WATER? I have the ability to walk on water only if its according to God's will.

It is God's will for us to be Saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Peter 3:9)
1 Timothy 2:3-4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

It is God's will for us to be Spirit-filled (Ephesians 5:17-18)
Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

We all have to come to the understanding that while God wants us to be Spirit-filled that God's loving desire that we should reflect His own holiness and goodness, NOT our own goodness.

It is God's will for us to be Sanctified (1 Thessalonians 4:3-7)
It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

It is God's will for us to be Submissive (1 Peter 2:13-15)
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men

It is God's will for us to Suffer ( Philippians 1:29; 2 Timothy 3:12)
Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him
2 Timothy 3:12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

My perspective from what I am reading from the Scriptures, that if we desire honor and glory from God, we must display humility first. I am clearly against faith teachings that teaches that a God who actually hears our prayers and wants to answer them by telling us of the desire of God to heal people of their physical infirmities when often goes unanswered for many Christians.

Psalm 40:8
I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.

 

[JimfromOhio]

But … please explain why so many of God’s children—who are bought by the blood of Jesus—sick, stay sick and why our bodies wear out as we age?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

"My temorary body is decaying at the same time, my inner being is being renewed day by day" (2 Cor 4:16).

 

[JimB]

lack of knowledge of position in Christ

So, it is “knowledge” that heals us. Do we have to have our doctrine straight before God will heal us?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

 

[JimfromOhio]

lack of knowledge of position in Christ

So, after 35+ years being a Christian, I am still not healed based on "lack of knowledge of position in Christ". I disagree. If knowing answers to life's questions is absolutely necessary to us, then forget the journey. We will never make it, for this is a journey of unknowables -- of unanswered questions, enigmas, incomprehensibles, and, most of all, things unfair."

Some have the attitude saying, "I have the knowledge and how God have blessed me with that knowledge. One of these days you will also come to know and have the same knowledge and that is when you will know the TRUTH."

I can have GREAT knowledge but if I don't have spiritual wisdom, my knowledge is worthless. Spiritual wisdom sees everything in focus and be able to trust God no matter what happens. If Christ is the wisdom of God and the power of God in the experience of those who trust and love Him, there needs no further argument of His Divinity.

"A man may be theologically knowing and spiritually ignorant" Charnock, Stephen

There is head knowledge, head and heart and just heart knowledge. In knowing God (not just about Him) the heart must be involved. A.W. Tozer

I love this verse, Titus 1:2 that said "a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time."

Proverbs 2:10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I know a lady who is a hypochondriac and chooses to be ill, even if if she has to fake it, because it serves her felt need for attention. When she is “sick” (real or imagined), people who are not wise to her show her more attention and concern than otherwise and so it serves her emotional needs to be physically ill for the emotional value the attention gains her.

And what should that tell us? HMMM?

Sounds to Moriah like a simple enough case with a simple enough solution: that woman needs others around her in her life who will make her feel cherished, important, like she matters, as much or more when she bes well as when she bes infirm. No one should have to be ill before others give them the freaking time of day.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Or we assume the opposite. I mean. this sword cuts both ways.

exactly.

 

[DiscipleWhomJesusLoves]

Even Jesus did not heal at will …

Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.” (John 5.19)
​

What do you think?

~Jim

I would rather defend to the death your right to say stupid stuff than to have to listen to it.​

Jesus and the Father are one, so whenever the Father willed it, Jesus healed at will.

With such negative and pathetic threads on "why God doesn't heal you" or "why you aren't healed" no wonder so many aren't receiving what belongs to them thru the blood of Christ. Such threads just complement the devil's work!

 

[Trish1947]

JimfromOhio..Faith is the title deed to the future. Faith is the foundation believing that the promises of God yet to come to pass will come to pass.

And we can be given this one other step..Faith is the title deed given to us in the past that assures your now. "Now" faith is the substance hoped for. The evidence of things not yet seen." Thy will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven. If your in Heaven where no sickness dwells, it is something that is seen, where no faith is required, then how was Gods will accomplished on earth? Most Christians are already convienced that things are perfect in Heaven, no problem there.