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My TE Challenge

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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The point is that the way science works is by continual refinement of what we think we know in the light of a continuing accumulation of evidence.

So what gives "science" the right to declare that things in the Bible didn't happen the way they did?

No evidence for a global flood? Then keep looking.
No evidence for a Creator? Then keep looking.
No evidence that Jesus rose from the tomb? Then keep looking.

Don't sit in your ivory tower, science, and tell me it didn't happen as documented.

As I have said before, until science can build a machine that can do this:

[bible]2 Kings 6:17[/bible]

--- science can take a hike.
 
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BrainHertz

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Now hold on a second. Correcting a typo is one thing, but as I understand it, Aristotle's "mistake" of defining reality as consisting of earth, air, fire, and water stunted the growth of science for 2000 years. It took other scientists to look Aristotle in the eye (I know, he was long gone) and say, "[Your] Science can take a hike," before science moved on.

I disagree. To start with, Aristotle didn't devise the Earth, Air, Fire and Water set of elements, it was Empedocles. Aristotle's contribution was to add Aether to the set. Given which, how could the idea be said to be somehow set in stone? This was a subject of much discussion and subject to amendment.

The classical elements notion was also far from useless; it introduced the important concept that matter is composed of varying combinations of a set of elements, which was correct.

What it took to change the understanding of the set of elements was better data, and when that became available, accepted science changed with it. This ability to reflect the available data is generally regarded by scientists as a stength, not a weakness. But whatever; it is what it is. It does seem to be working out pretty well so far.

I don't mind today's science pwning yesterday's, and tomorrow's science pwning today's; but when science sticks it paradigms into the realm of the divine and says, "Didn't happen" --- that's where God's people need to step in and put "science" in its place.

But an old book cannot be questioned, no matter what evidence becomes available? (Just as long as it's the particular old book you choose to arbitrarily consider infallible).

You want to know why the Tower of Babel incident took place? In my opinion, science was developing too fast for mankind, and God stepped in and shot it in the foot.

and what is your evidence for this?
 
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BrainHertz

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So what gives "science" the right to declare that things in the Bible didn't happen the way they did?

Science doesn't. My contention is that the evidence does not support your assertions.

No evidence for a global flood? Then keep looking.
No evidence for a Creator? Then keep looking.
No evidence that Jesus rose from the tomb? Then keep looking.

No evidence for an orbiting teapot or an invisible unicorn in my garage...?


Don't sit in your ivory tower, science, and tell me it didn't happen as documented.

I'm an engineer.

As I have said before, until science can build a machine that can do this:

[bible]2 Kings 6:17[/bible]

--- science can take a hike.

Write a book?
 
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dlamberth

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So what gives "science" the right to declare that things in the Bible didn't happen the way they did?
The reality of what we can actually see and test around us in life and in the earth goes pretty far towards that end.

.
 
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Psudopod

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So what gives "science" the right to declare that things in the Bible didn't happen the way they did?

No evidence for a global flood? Then keep looking.
No evidence for a Creator? Then keep looking.
No evidence that Jesus rose from the tomb? Then keep looking.

Science can't comment on the existence of a creator and it doesn't. If it did you wouldn't get theists who were also scientists.

It is hard to comment on indivual events which don't leave any evidence. Water into wine or rising from the tomb can only be commented on in terms of the laws of reality. But something that is physically impossible for humans obviously won't be for the devine.

However with the global flood, we not only have no evidence for the flood, but we have evidence that says the flood is impossible. How did that evidence get there? You have two options -

one: The flood didn't happen (at least not globally)

two: The flood did happen, and when God was cleaning up he planted this false evidence to make it look like the flood never happend.

Also, science is a tool. It has not more "rights" than a hammer.
 
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Nathan Poe

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So what gives "science" the right to declare that things in the Bible didn't happen the way they did?

Reality.

No evidence for a global flood? Then keep looking.

Plenty of evidence against a global flood -- search over.

No evidence for a Creator? Then keep looking.

No need -- your inanae "challenges" show that no evidence can possibly exist.

No evidence that Jesus rose from the tomb? Then keep looking.

What tomb? And again -- you've proven that the divine leaves no evidence.

Don't sit in your ivory tower, science, and tell me it didn't happen as documented.

Who is this "science" you speak to? And why not insult its mother while you're at it?

As I have said before, until science can build a machine that can do this:

[bible]2 Kings 6:17[/bible]

--- science can take a hike.

Until you can produce a God who can do the same -- so can you.
 
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MasterOfKrikkit

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Now hold on a second. Correcting a typo is one thing, but as I understand it, Aristotle's "mistake" of defining reality as consisting of earth, air, fire, and water stunted the growth of science for 2000 years. It took other scientists to look Aristotle in the eye (I know, he was long gone) and say, "[Your] Science can take a hike," before science moved on.
Your mistake was smaller, so it was easier to correct. So what? Aristotle's mistakes took longer to fix because they had some validity (as BH has pointed out). The closer a theory describes reality, the longer it will stand.

Also, saying something "stunted the growth of science" is risky because it's an untestable proposition. Often incorrect theories promote science because they promote research to explain the "holes". Furthermore, if you take the line you did, well... know what else seriously "stunted the growth of science"? The church and "common sense" declaring that the Earth was the center of the universe. Galileo and all that, remember? And why is it now accepted that the Earth isn't the center of the universe? Evidence. The evidence was in Galileo's favor, regardless of what church dogma insisted. And guess what, the evidence is in favor of biological evolution and against a short global flood.

BTW, to some degree you are correct: the veneration of Aristotle did cause science some problems. Which is exactly why modern scientists require science NOT to hold anything "holy", but to test all theories as much as possible.

Bottom line: whenever anyone holds to a party line (be it an authority like Aristotle or Einstein, a political affiliation, a religious text, "common sense", or anything else) they will resist new ideas and evidence, to the detriment of knowledge. Whenever anyone is open to correcting their views, based on new evidence, their knowledge will advance.

I don't mind today's science pwning yesterday's, and tomorrow's science pwning today's;
Do you actually want to be taken seriously? I'm just curious, because if you do, it might help to stop sounding like a 14-year-old gaming dork. But anyway, today's science very rarely "pwns" yesterday's, because if yesterday's was good science, it worked well and, rather than being "pwned", it was simply updated with a better, more complete model. Newtonian mechanics is technically wrong, but accurate enough that we still use it in a vast number of applications -- Newton was hardly "pwned" by Einstein.

but when science sticks it paradigms into the realm of the divine and says, "Didn't happen" --- that's where God's people need to step in and put "science" in its place.
Science doesn't deal in the divine. But, as has been explained to you numerous times, the key paradigms of science are common to most (if not all) intellectual pursuits. Evidence, consistency, logic, testability, etc etc etc.

You want to know why the Tower of Babel incident took place?
Not particularly, but since you opined anyway...
In my opinion, science was developing too fast for mankind, and God stepped in and shot it in the foot.
So why hasn't God shot us in the foot again? Science is progressing much faster now than then. Why is mankind progressing faster to keep up? Are we evolving?

As I have said before, until science can build a machine that can do this:

[bible]2 Kings 6:17[/bible]

--- science can take a hike.
Says the man on a computer. Anyway, science has done that: Lysergic acid diethylamide.
 
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FishFace

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Now hold on a second. Correcting a typo is one thing, but as I understand it, Aristotle's "mistake" of defining reality as consisting of earth, air, fire, and water stunted the growth of science for 2000 years. It took other scientists to look Aristotle in the eye (I know, he was long gone) and say, "[Your] Science can take a hike," before science moved on.

Guess what, people don't tend to mind giving their science the boot if there is actual evidence that it is wrong. But if someone looked Aristotle in the eye and said, "My book says your science can take a hike" then he'd be told to shove it.
 
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Scienceman123

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Indeed --- when I first came here, my signature was something like:
  • If it disagrees with the King James Bible --- it's wrong.
Or, to put it another way ---
  • If reality says one thing, and the King James Bible says differently --- reality can take a hike.
In short, I've been saying that for years.

Pi=3?
Insects have 4 legs?
Bats are birds?
The Earth has corners?
 
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Scienceman123

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Then why is science wrong all the time?


Phlogiston, air has no mass, overpopulation, spontaneous generation, etc. --- all bogus.

With the exception of overpopulation, all such things were disproved-guess what-by science! Religion has no such error-correcting mechanisms, because it lacks an observable method by which to do so.
 
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MasterOfKrikkit

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Only if it's scientific looking at a scientific insect and scientifically counting its legs. Scientifically.

Exactly. If you scientifically count the legs to be six, but throw that out the window because the Bible says four, that's ok.

IOW: denying reality = solid reasoning; accepting reality = circular reasoning.
 
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GrayCat

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Exactly. If you scientifically count the legs to be six, but throw that out the window because the Bible says four, that's ok.

IOW: denying reality = solid reasoning; accepting reality = circular reasoning.

That is just so messed up. Are you joking, or are there truly people who think in this way?
 
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