My TE Challenge

[AV1611VET]

...something like "If i want to prove atheism wrong, all I need is the first verse of the bible" or something like that.

That too is something I made up:

• To disprove evolution, all I need is the first chapter of the Bible.
• To disprove atheism, all I need is the first verse of the Bible.

 

[GrayCat]

Hahaha no your signature should be, "All beliefs except my beliefs are wrong." That about sums up your feelings from waht I can tell...

And isn't this Thread originally about Theistic evolution? I believe in it, though not in the Christian sense.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hahaha no your signature should be, "All beliefs except my beliefs are wrong." That about sums up your feelings from waht I can tell...

Nope --- God did it - that settles it makes a much more powerful statement.

BTW, you didn't miss Post 180, did you?

And isn't this Thread originally about Theistic evolution? I believe in it, though not in the Christian sense.

My threads have a way of dying rather quickly.

People are so dying to ask me questions, they forget to answer mine.

 

[GrayCat]

Nope --- God did it - that settles it makes a much more powerful statement.

BTW, you didn't miss Post 180, did you?



My threads have a way of dying rather quickly.

People are so dying to ask me questions, they forget to answer mine.

Nope, I read it. What about it?

And are you kidding? Alot of your threads live *almost* as long as ShieldOFaith's. Hahahahaha!!


Anyway i think people ask you alot of questions because they have trouble understanding your logic behind your statements (or, lack of logic sometimes.) But Logic can take a hike too, right? :-D

 

[AV1611VET]

Nope, I read it. What about it?

And are you kidding? Alot of your threads live *almost* as long as ShieldOFaith's. Hahahahaha!!


Anyway i think people ask you alot of questions because they have trouble understanding your logic behind your statements (or, lack of logic sometimes.) But Logic can take a hike too, right? :-D

Let me say this about my logic.

My "philosophy" is really very simple --- God said it - that settles it.

And people try so hard to shake that, that in my opinion, they end up getting me to stray into territories I'm not really prepared to handle.

And this is where the Lord has to come in and help me, in my opinion.

One of my favorite examples, if not my favorite, is:

• Where did all that water from the Flood go?

Notice --- that's not even covered in the Bible - (that I know of, anyway). So after some thought, I had to say simply that God cleaned it up.

But then that led to:

• How do I know God cleaned it up?

And again, after some thought, I concluded that only God could have done so --- for two main reasons:

1. He is the only One who had the power to clean it up.
2. He surely wouldn't have just sat there while Satan attempted to clean it up.

So sometimes I have to stray into areas that aren't expressly covered in the Scriptures, and that's where the Lord has to help.

One more example:

• What did all those animals on the Ark eat?

I don't know --- but I can intelligently guess how they were fed, by simply looking at how God handled a similar situation later, when He miraculously fed the widow of Zarephath in 1 Kings 19.

 

[variant]

So science is validated by a non-scientific principle?

You got it.

Science is based upon a type of reasoning which is not exclusively scientific.

Inductive reasoning is broader and more basic than science.

All science utilizes the principle of induction, all uses of the principle of induction are not science.

 

[AV1611VET]

Science is based upon a type of reasoning which is not exclusively scientific.

Then why is science wrong all the time?


Phlogiston, air has no mass, overpopulation, spontaneous generation, etc. --- all bogus.

 

[GrayCat]

Then why is science wrong all the time?


Phlogiston, air has mass, overpopulation, spontaneous generation, etc. --- all bogus.

Overpopulation (of humans) is not bogus.

 

[GrayCat]

Let me say this about my logic.

My "philosophy" is really very simple --- God said it - that settles it.

And people try so hard to shake that, that in my opinion, they end up getting me to stray into territories I'm not really prepared to handle.

And this is where the Lord has to come in and help me, in my opinion.

One of my favorite examples, if not my favorite, is:

• Where did all that water from the Flood go?

Notice --- that's not even covered in the Bible - (that I know of, anyway). So after some thought, I had to say simply that God cleaned it up.

But then that led to:

• How do I know God cleaned it up?

And again, after some thought, I concluded that only God could have done so --- for two main reasons:

1. He is the only One who had the power to clean it up.
2. He surely wouldn't have just sat there while Satan attempted to clean it up.

So sometimes I have to stray into areas that aren't expressly covered in the Scriptures, and that's where the Lord has to help.

One more example:

• What did all those animals on the Ark eat?

I don't know --- but I can intelligently guess how they were fed, by simply looking at how God handled a similar situation later, when He miraculously fed the widow of Zarephath in 1 Kings 19.

So you arrive at answers/logic to questions of which the answer is not given in the bible through the help of God?

How does it work? Like How does God reveal his answers to you? And how do you know that they come from God and not from your own insight or theory?

 

[AV1611VET]

Overpopulation (of humans) is not bogus.

Yes, it is.

I read about some kind of challenge years and years ago put to the Club of Rome about algae growing on a pond by doubling twice its volume every day for a month; and that we were currently in Day 30.

As I understand it, at the time, the entire earth's population could fit in the county that Jacksonville, Florida is in.

 

[variant]

Then why is science wrong all the time?


Phlogiston, air has mass, overpopulation, spontaneous generation, etc. --- all bogus.

Science is often wrong when it attempts to describe the universe because it is based on real world testing, which is often incomplete. Scientific theories however become stronger when more evidence is gathered which confirms their predictions.

Scientific theories are inductive theories based on observation, inductive reasoning is falsified when observations are seen which can not be reconciled with the theory.

Example of inductive reasoning tossing out an untrue theory:

Observation: Christian A believes in the Bible because the Bible says it is true and holy.

Theory: Christian A believes in books that say they are true and holy.

Prediction: Christian a will believe in books that say they are true and holy.

Test: Will Christian A believe in the Koran which is a book that says it is both true and holy?

Obviously not.

Theory falsified.

 

[AV1611VET]

How does it work? Like How does God reveal his answers to you?

For me, it came as a flash of insight --- an epiphany.

And how do you know that they come from God and not from your own insight or theory?

I don't --- but whether God gave it to me directly, or He jarred something loose in my cognition --- either way, He gets the credit.

Yes --- as the old saying goes ---

• Luck favors the learned.

But I don't attribute this to luck --- I attribute it to God.

 

[AV1611VET]

Scientific theories however become stronger when more evidence is gathered which confirms their predictions.

Yes --- you have scientific evidence confirming scientific theories --- circular logic.

 

[variant]

Yes --- you have scientific evidence confirming scientific theories --- circular logic.

Evidence is based on observation, which is more basic than science; there is nothing circular about it.

The only thing that makes evidence "scientific evidence" is when it is used by a scientist to make or test scientific theories.

 

[AV1611VET]

Evidence is based on observation, which is more basic than science; there is nothing circular about it.

I didn't say it [evidence] was. The whole process, to me, is circular. You have science being confirmed by science.

• Science confirms science.
• Nature confirms nature.
• The divine confirms the divine.

When scientists calculate the next eclipse, it's because they inputted scientific data into their scientific computers.

 

[GrayCat]

Yes --- you have scientific evidence confirming scientific theories --- circular logic.

Remember, though, that you have said before that the Bible is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true. That is an example of circular logic.

 

[variant]

I didn't say it [evidence] was. The whole process, to me, is circular. You have science being confirmed by science.

The process of confirming something by collecting evidence is not circular.

I believe X because I have evidence for X is not a circular path of reasoning at all.

When scientists calculate the next eclipse, it's because they inputted scientific data into their scientific computers.

Basing science on evidence/observation, controlled methodological testing and the basic tenants of reasoning and logic is not circular at all.

The justification for science in your example is that the eclipse happens right when they calculate it will, justifying the calculations, the models they were based on, and the observations they were based on.

Neat isn't it?

This is not possible with God.

Your understanding of the divine is based on stories written down by ancient goat herding societies. You believe them because they say they are true.

The Bible is true because it says it is true.

That is circular reasoning.

 

[AV1611VET]

Remember, though, that you have said before that the Bible is true because the Bible says that the Bible is true. That is an example of circular logic.

That's right --- and whenever anyone accuses me of it, I just point out that they use it too.

HOWEVER, the Bible is also validated by the life of the Jews (and others), who fulfill Its prophecies to the letter.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your understanding of the divine is based on stories written down by ancient goat herding societies.

Have a good day --- we're done.

 

[GrayCat]

Have a good day --- we're done.

Ancient goat herding societies? Why is that bad to you? I personally would have loved to live back then, among the fields of grass with the wild goats. (I'd have still been one of the pagans though, not the Christians.) lol