Obama pro/con

[Scribbler]

I think Malik is talking about Obama not the Pastor here.

BTW; There is denounce, which Obama has done on more than one occasion...and then there is to abandon, which in light of his Christian faith it simply is not the Jesus thing to do.

The Christian thing to do being continue going to his church, donate tens of thousands of dollars to said church , allow him to continue to say these things without speaking into his life, put him on an advisory committee, and name him as a spiritual mentor, I'm guessing?
I know if my pastor was saying such racist things, and using Jesus to divide people and didn't repent when called on it, you bet I'd abandon him. Wouldn't you?


I'm curious....How is you appluad Malik for claiming Obama 'didn't denounce his pastor', then claim Obama 'denounced his pastor...several times... in the very next post? Amazing.

 

[NPH]

The Christian thing to do being continue going to his church, donate tens of thousands of dollars to said church , allow him to continue to say these things without speaking into his life, put him on an advisory committee, and name him as a spiritual mentor, I'm guessing?
I know if my pastor was saying such racist things, and using Jesus to divide people and didn't repent when called on it, you bet I'd abandon him. Wouldn't you?

Millions upon millions of christians continue attending and donating to churches with pastors that say equally vile things about gay people and seem to have no problem with it. In fact, in the case of politicians like McCain they actively seek the endorsements of pastors who speak vilely of gay people like with ridiculous claims that homosexuals cause terrorists attacks, hurricanes and other calamities.

How many of those in this thread berating Obama and Rev. Wright, I have to wonder, belong to churches with spiritual leaders that say such things and not only don't leave them, but actively agree with them and support legislations designed solely to prevent gay people from being treated with equality.

 

[MachZer0]

Millions upon millions of christians continue attending and donating to churches with pastors that say equally vile things about gay people and seem to have no problem with it.

Can you give us some specific examples of that so that we have a frame of reference?

 

[Voegelin]

David Horowitz makes some good points today:

Obama calls black community racist . . .

Barack Obama said that he could not disown his white-hating, Jew-hating, America-hating Pastor Jeremiah Wright because that would be the same as disowning the black community. Imagine a white politician saying he couldn't disown David Duke because that would be disowning the white community, and you will understand how utterly Obama has unmasked himself and why he now will never be a unifying candidate that all Americans can trust. This is the end of the Obama phenomenon. It is a painfully transparent case of the racist chickens of the multicultural left coming home to roost . . .

http://www.frontpagemag.com/blog/Default.aspx

 

[MacCoyle]

David Horowitz makes some good points today:

Really? Duke?

 

[MachZer0]

David Horowitz makes some good points today:

From your quote

racist chickens of the multicultural left coming home to roost . . .

Chickens coming home to roost was in one of Wright's sermons so Obama likely knows what that means

 

[NPH]

Can you give us some specific examples of that so that we have a frame of reference?

I'll start with the Roman Catholic Church. Easiest, since they are all required to agree with the pronouncements of the church and the catechism. That covers my statement of millions and millions at the very least.

Homosexual acts are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Beyond that I could note individuals such as James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, John Hagee etc ... and their ministries, colleges and such. But we both know that you already know all this, and you're just playing silly beggars rather than addressing the point. I'm not going to play a game of having to pull out every "Katrina caused by gays", "9/11 caused by gays", "gays infiltrating our government", etc ad nauseum. You know exactly what i'm talking about and you know that most christian preachers (and christians) have something derogatory to say about homosexuals.

Not a single christian belief against homosexuality has any basis in fact or reality other than "god said so" and therefore is no less wacky or insulting than anything Rev. Wright believes that "god says so".

 

[Dannager]

David Horowitz makes some good points today:

Haha, the Obama phenomenon is dead? The press and public reactions to his speech have been more supportive and glowing than just about anything he's ever done. It looks like the far-right is simply repeating that mantra over and over until it mystically comes true.

 

[JoyJuice]

The Christian thing to do being continue going to his church, donate tens of thousands of dollars to said church , allow him to continue to say these things without speaking into his life, put him on an advisory committee, and name him as a spiritual mentor, I'm guessing?

You act as though the money is going to the Pastor. You have to ask yourself, and Obama has pointed it out himself, what attracted him to the church was what they did for community given the impoverished that surrounded them. So yes, in regard to community, that thing that Jesus spoke so much of, there is nothing wrong to continue to support an organization that benefits commmunity within the realm of Christian ideology. One would have to look at the Pastor in his entire capacity in addition to his multiculture congregation that he draws, and not just selected video from Youtube. Clearly as Obama explained it is he who lead him to Christ. It is he who enlightened him to the spirituality of the Christian way. I really am kind of amiss why the antithesis of what Jesus taught in hate the sin, but love the sinner is so quickly poo poo'ed here by those who dawn the cross?

I'm curious....How is you appluad Malik for claiming Obama 'didn't denounce his pastor', then claim Obama 'denounced his pastor...several times... in the very next post? Amazing.

Oh...my bad.

I thought it said he denounced him which clearly Obama did. So that I can't make claim to, but yes, I do agree with Malik in giving credit to Obama for not succumbing to the pressure of throwing his Pastor under the bus.

BTW, still waiting for solid examples rather than claims as mentioned in post 696.

 

[MachZer0]

I'll start with the Roman Catholic Church. Easiest, since they are all required to agree with the pronouncements of the church and the catechism. That covers my statement of millions and millions at the very least.

Did you notice that your quote addresses the behavior and not the person?

Beyond that I could note individuals such as James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, John Hagee etc ... and their ministries, colleges and such.

Please do, that is, if you can

But we both know that you already know all this, and you're just playing silly beggars rather than addressing the point.

We don'tboth that. What I suspect is that you will misrepresent them as you have already done

I'm not going to play a game of having to pull out every "Katrina caused by gays", "9/11 caused by gays", "gays infiltrating our government", etc ad nauseum. You know exactly what i'm talking about and you know that most christian preachers (and christians) have something derogatory to say about homosexuals.

No, I don't know that at all

Not a single christian belief against homosexuality has any basis in fact or reality other than "god said so" and therefore is no less wacky or insulting than anything Rev. Wright believes that "god says so".

That isn't really the issue. The issue is your errant comparison of Wright's statements and those of Christian pastors about homosexuals

 

[Dannager]

The issue is your errant comparison of Wright's statements and those of Christian pastors about homosexuals

And the point was that the comparison isn't errant; it's spot on.

 

[NeTrips]

I see folks are still debating if obama's pastor had any impact on obama's beleifs and thoughts. That's good.

I do have to say that it is apparent that the pastor certainly had an impact on obama's wife. Surely everyone who's eyes are still open can see the similarities between her lack of pride in the USA and the pastor's comments.

 

[[serious]]

hey, when called out on ties to someone who didn't even call for the assassination of a foreign leader he publicly and openly disavowed the minister's statements. He's one up on the distancing himself from the lunatic fringe.

 

[Dannager]

I see folks are still debating if obama's pastor had any impact on obama's beleifs and thoughts. That's good.

I do have to say that it is apparent that the pastor certainly had an impact on obama's wife. Surely everyone who's eyes are still open can see the similarities between her lack of pride in the USA and the pastor's comments.

Anyone mistaking Michelle's comments for a lack of pride for American ideals and beliefs isn't paying attention. Anyone upset with her lack of pride in what much of America has become is part of the problem.

 

[MachZer0]

And the point was that the comparison isn't errant; it's spot on.

Really? Let's look at it

Millions upon millions of christians continue attending and donating to churches with pastors that say equally vile things about gay people and seem to have no problem with it. .

Can you give us some specific examples of that so that we have a frame of reference?

And of course the quote for comparison was

Homosexual acts are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. .

Now that is supposed to be a spot on comparison of Wright who said, "God damn America" Can you expand on your perspective that the comparison is spot on when the Catholic Church says that homosexual acts cannot be approved while Wright calls for the condemnation of an entire country? I'd love to see your logic

 

[NeTrips]

hey, when called out on ties to someone who didn't even call for the assassination of a foreign leader he publicly and openly disavowed the minister's statements. He's one up on the distancing himself from the lunatic fringe.

that truely depends on how you define "lunatic fringe". For me, his distance from the middle of the political spectrum puts him square in the middle of my definition of "lunatic fringe".

 

[Dannager]

that truely depends on how you define "lunatic fringe". For me, his distance from the middle of the political spectrum puts him square in the middle of my definition of "lunatic fringe".

Your "middle" ranges are about as far off calibration as they could possibly be.

 

[MachZer0]

hey, when called out on ties to someone who didn't even call for the assassination of a foreign leader he publicly and openly disavowed the minister's statements. He's one up on the distancing himself from the lunatic fringe.

Yeah, and it only took him 20 years to do so, the last year of course with Wright on his campaign staff

 

[Dannager]

Please, do. The more you ignore those who refute your points, the more anyone reading the thread will reject your position.

 

[Dannager]

Now that is supposed to be a spot on comparison of Wright who said, "God damn America" Can you expand on your perspective that the comparison is spot on when the Catholic Church says that homosexual acts cannot be approved while Wright calls for the condemnation of an entire country? I'd love to see your logic

Wright's call for condemnation is, for a significant part, fully justified. America, as a country, has become the petulant brat of the international scene. There is little in its recent actions to be proud of. The Catholic church calls for the condemnation of the habits of an entire community (homosexuals) just as Wright calls for the condemnation of the policies of a different community (the United States).