T
Till
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Marv mentioned them. I understand that he is part of a Lutheran Brethren congregation. What is the history and the specifics of this church?
Many thanks,
Till
Many thanks,
Till
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We are the one true church.
Just kidding.
Used to be a fair history online but the synod is redoing the website www.clba.org Statements of belief and such are up again.
Wikipedia's entry is a pretty good background. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Lutheran_Brethren_of_America
Their roots really go back to the Scandinavian pietists, such as Hans Nielsen Hauge, but while similar in many respects to the Hauge synod they were a bit different.
They were heavily into social movement like Prohibition.
As far as I can tell, they were pretty unique in requiring an adult to apply and be approved for membership by the congregation which continues to this day, that's the Brethren in Lutheran Brethren, though I must admit, I can't think of anyone being voted down. I haven't heard of it happening if the person get's instruction and is recommended by the elders. Anyway membership or voting membership really is about voting, or holding office and such, we do not exclude nonmembers from sacraments, weddings, funerals or whatever. On average about half the people who regularly attend and worship are members.
Education for all ages is emphasized. Most people attend Sunday School, most members at least are involved in additional bible studies.
We are a synod that the synod is basically a cooperative organization between the various congregations. We share a seminary, a school, and a printer and missionary work that comes to mind right away. Congregations have a modified presbyterian government. That is each congregation is run by a plurality of elders. A minister and an elder are the same office, so the minister is one of the elders, elders are indeed ordained. I'm not aware of any other Lutherans who follow the plurality of ordained elders pattern. So you could say we have lots of lay ministers. Most congregations have a seminary trained minister, though I'd be surprised if we checked if there weren't a couple that don't.
The modification is that we also have congregational voter assemblies. I know if you read our congregational constitution, if it came down to a disagreement between a vote and the elders, the elders actually have the final say.
We also have deacons who take care of the worldly end of things in the congregations.
Deacons are elected for a fixed term. Elders receive a vote of confidence every third year. The voter's nominate and elect deacons. The elders chose elders with the approval of the voters.
We probably have more variation between congregations than many other Lutherans, our synod has only the right to break fellowship with a congregation, not control the workings of it so there is no prescribed order of service or whatever, but we pretty much all follow a simple order. I know some in the bigger towns are doing some contemporary services, but I haven't attended to see them so I don't know what that really means. we don't tend to be the rock band sort of people.
We don't use special vestments for clergy, and churches are generally pretty simple. We are pretty low church for Lutherans. Typical would be a simple cross at the front and the pulpit is in the center to emphasis the importance and centrality of the sermon and God's word.
We share a fair amount of heritage with the Free Lutherans and the Evangelical Free. Concentration of congregations is in the upper MidWest.
Anyway if there is something specific or unclear please ask.
Marv
Just kidding.
Used to be a fair history online but the synod is redoing the website www.clba.org Statements of belief and such are up again.
Wikipedia's entry is a pretty good background. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Lutheran_Brethren_of_America
Their roots really go back to the Scandinavian pietists, such as Hans Nielsen Hauge, but while similar in many respects to the Hauge synod they were a bit different.
They were heavily into social movement like Prohibition.
As far as I can tell, they were pretty unique in requiring an adult to apply and be approved for membership by the congregation which continues to this day, that's the Brethren in Lutheran Brethren, though I must admit, I can't think of anyone being voted down. I haven't heard of it happening if the person get's instruction and is recommended by the elders. Anyway membership or voting membership really is about voting, or holding office and such, we do not exclude nonmembers from sacraments, weddings, funerals or whatever. On average about half the people who regularly attend and worship are members.
Education for all ages is emphasized. Most people attend Sunday School, most members at least are involved in additional bible studies.
We are a synod that the synod is basically a cooperative organization between the various congregations. We share a seminary, a school, and a printer and missionary work that comes to mind right away. Congregations have a modified presbyterian government. That is each congregation is run by a plurality of elders. A minister and an elder are the same office, so the minister is one of the elders, elders are indeed ordained. I'm not aware of any other Lutherans who follow the plurality of ordained elders pattern. So you could say we have lots of lay ministers. Most congregations have a seminary trained minister, though I'd be surprised if we checked if there weren't a couple that don't.
The modification is that we also have congregational voter assemblies. I know if you read our congregational constitution, if it came down to a disagreement between a vote and the elders, the elders actually have the final say.
We also have deacons who take care of the worldly end of things in the congregations.
Deacons are elected for a fixed term. Elders receive a vote of confidence every third year. The voter's nominate and elect deacons. The elders chose elders with the approval of the voters.
We probably have more variation between congregations than many other Lutherans, our synod has only the right to break fellowship with a congregation, not control the workings of it so there is no prescribed order of service or whatever, but we pretty much all follow a simple order. I know some in the bigger towns are doing some contemporary services, but I haven't attended to see them so I don't know what that really means. we don't tend to be the rock band sort of people.
We don't use special vestments for clergy, and churches are generally pretty simple. We are pretty low church for Lutherans. Typical would be a simple cross at the front and the pulpit is in the center to emphasis the importance and centrality of the sermon and God's word.
We share a fair amount of heritage with the Free Lutherans and the Evangelical Free. Concentration of congregations is in the upper MidWest.
Anyway if there is something specific or unclear please ask.
Marv
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Yes, they are in what would be called the office of public ministry. The Bible uses different words for it. Just as the distinction between Bishop and minister is of human distinction so too is the distinction between minister and elder. We would usually use the terms different but they are both in the office of public ministry.
Marv
Marv
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T
Till
Guest
Thank you Marv,
That was quite interesting. Because you mentioned their background in pietism and that they supported prohibition, a funny story come to my mind. You will know that there were - and are - also quite strong pietist movements in Germany. Amongst Lutherans as well as Reformed churches. Now the different pietists in different regions had different signs that a true believer would show. In Wurttemberg where wine is being produced they drank alcohol but would not smoke. In the Rhineland where tobacoo is being produced, they smoke cigars but would not drink alcohol ....
That was quite interesting. Because you mentioned their background in pietism and that they supported prohibition, a funny story come to my mind. You will know that there were - and are - also quite strong pietist movements in Germany. Amongst Lutherans as well as Reformed churches. Now the different pietists in different regions had different signs that a true believer would show. In Wurttemberg where wine is being produced they drank alcohol but would not smoke. In the Rhineland where tobacoo is being produced, they smoke cigars but would not drink alcohol ....
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Yes, I know.
It was funny in North Dakota. The Lutheran Brethren were like 95% Republican in support of Prohibition. The LCMS were mostly Democrat because they were against it.
Now here's the strange part. The Republicans in the legislature would get together each night in the top of a motel in Bismarck. And the booze would flow in quantity.
There were only a few Democrats in the Legislature, and even fewer made it to Bismarck because the railroads would give the Republicans free passage and Democrats had to pay. But the strange thing was, almost all the Democrats were teetotalers. I don't know maybe the people would forgive you being a Democrat if you didn't personally drink at all.
There are other issues that split out almost the same way and do still somewhat to this day with the people in the parties having the opposite personal life of what you would think from the official party positions, but actually things have mixed so much by now that mostly it's just my father was (pick one Republican-Democrat) so I am too.
Anyway, now both the Lutheran Brethren and the LCMS tend to vote Republican, even though Jesus is a Democrat.
If you didn't know that think for a second. Who gives you a fish and who teaches you to fish. Republicans claim to want to teach you to fish, Democrats to give you a fish. Now what did Jesus do, did he give the crowds fish or did he teach them to fish? He gave them fish; therefore, Jesus is a Democrat.
Marv
It was funny in North Dakota. The Lutheran Brethren were like 95% Republican in support of Prohibition. The LCMS were mostly Democrat because they were against it.
Now here's the strange part. The Republicans in the legislature would get together each night in the top of a motel in Bismarck. And the booze would flow in quantity.
There were only a few Democrats in the Legislature, and even fewer made it to Bismarck because the railroads would give the Republicans free passage and Democrats had to pay. But the strange thing was, almost all the Democrats were teetotalers. I don't know maybe the people would forgive you being a Democrat if you didn't personally drink at all.
There are other issues that split out almost the same way and do still somewhat to this day with the people in the parties having the opposite personal life of what you would think from the official party positions, but actually things have mixed so much by now that mostly it's just my father was (pick one Republican-Democrat) so I am too.
Anyway, now both the Lutheran Brethren and the LCMS tend to vote Republican, even though Jesus is a Democrat.
If you didn't know that think for a second. Who gives you a fish and who teaches you to fish. Republicans claim to want to teach you to fish, Democrats to give you a fish. Now what did Jesus do, did he give the crowds fish or did he teach them to fish? He gave them fish; therefore, Jesus is a Democrat.
Marv
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Anyway, now both the Lutheran Brethren and the LCMS tend to vote Republican, even though Jesus is a Democrat.
If you didn't know that think for a second. Who gives you a fish and who teaches you to fish. Republicans claim to want to teach you to fish, Democrats to give you a fish. Now what did Jesus do, did he give the crowds fish or did he teach them to fish? He gave them fish; therefore, Jesus is a Democrat.
Marv
I doubt very highly, though, that Jesus would staunchly defend such things as abortion and gay rights.
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lol, so our Lord should have given the multitude all nets or fishing poles and signed them up for lessons with Babe Winkelman instead
We are fishers of men and neither does man live by bread alone
Q
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LutheranHawkeye
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Jesus was not a rich white protestant gun owner. Jesus was a poor jew who loved others more than himself. How many republicans do you know like that? LOL
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There's a difference bewteen being "Republican" and being Conservative. Which is why I'm not Republican. But to call Jesus a Demoncrat is a bit much IMO.
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porterross
I miss Ronald Reagan
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What would God have needed with money or worldly goods? 
Unlike us, Jesus never doubted for a second that He would have all He needed from above.
Do you have any idea how wealthy most of the democratic politicians are? Don't kid yourself into thinking that their philosophy of extreme taxation doesn't also penalize those who have little to begin with.
There is no shame in working to be worthy of receiving the blessings god bestows on us while we're here. Giving what we have to those truly in need is not an issue, it's the idea that everyone should have an equal share in what was indeed worked for by others, simply because those without choose to be idle.
Unlike us, Jesus never doubted for a second that He would have all He needed from above. Do you have any idea how wealthy most of the democratic politicians are? Don't kid yourself into thinking that their philosophy of extreme taxation doesn't also penalize those who have little to begin with.
There is no shame in working to be worthy of receiving the blessings god bestows on us while we're here. Giving what we have to those truly in need is not an issue, it's the idea that everyone should have an equal share in what was indeed worked for by others, simply because those without choose to be idle.
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A guy tries to tell a joke and everyone is so serious. Sorry if you coudn't recognize it as such.
Marv
Marv
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