US Seeks Death for Six Charged in 9/11 Plot

[uberd00b]

What would more death accomplish? Other than sating peoples personal bloodlust of course.

Where are the Christians who teach turn the other cheek and forgiveness?

 

[Meshavrischika]

What would more death accomplish? Other than sating peoples personal bloodlust of course.

Where are the Christians who teach turn the other cheek and forgiveness?

again... this is not a theocracy. why is it left to Christians to preach forgiveness or kindness anyway? we don't have a monopoly on it.

 

[IisJustMe]

What would more death accomplish? Other than sating peoples personal bloodlust of course. Where are the Christians who teach turn the other cheek and forgiveness?

Right here. I teach that. But Jesus' context did not mean " ... and let him hit you again" either. By turning the other cheek, you allow the person who struck you to prove his intent goes beyond the passion of the moment. If he draws back to strike you again, you are under no obligation to allow him to land a second blow. You can and should defend yourself. That is shown by Jesus' reference to being struck "on the right cheek." That required the left hand. No Jew of the day would backhand someone. It was a supreme insult, so to strike the left cheek, he would have to use his right (stronger hand for most, weapon hand for most) and his intent was then obvious. The intent of these six is obvious. They did not act "in the heat of the moment" but are responsible for planning the deaths of tens of thousands. It was the hand of God that allowed fewer than 3,000 deaths, and they should be dealt with as the war criminals of Nuremberg. The difference is they will have the right of appeal. The Germans, in most cases, did not.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

again... this is not a theocracy. why is it left to Christians to preach forgiveness or kindness anyway? we don't have a monopoly on it.

You may not have a monopoly on it but why don't you and others try practicing it more often--you know other than when it meets your needs..

I think you need to answer uberd00b's question? What will the death of these six do? What will their blood being spilt and or them being pumped with drugs to kill them do?

 

[Meshavrischika]

You may not have a monopoly on it but why don't you and others try practicing it more often--you know other than when it meets your needs..

I think you need to answer uberd00b's question? What will the death of these six do? What will their blood being spilt and or them being pumped with drugs to kill them do?

I have never claimed perfection or the ability to be Christlike 100% of the time and I certainly don't just cling to trying to be that way "when it suits me".

The death of the six will meet the letter of the laws of the land in which the law was violated. Period.

 

[CCGirl]

Hitler........YAY god!

We are told to obey our government, and that leaders are put in place by God.... even bad ones

And yet you also point out

the government is not a theocracy

 

[Meshavrischika]

Hitler........YAY god!



And yet you also point out

theocracy is a God centered government, God can put people in power without them being centered on Him. It's not about what we deem as good/bad... but what is supposed to happen so things turn out like He plans.

 

[IisJustMe]

Hitler........YAY god!

The war Hitler started gave impetus to the formation of Israel and recognition of it's return to statehood some 1,922 years after it ceased to exist -- something that has never ever occurred among nations before, and to me that pretty much proves God, since He, through Ezekiel, promised that would happen.

And yet you also point out

theocracy is a God centered government, God can put people in power without them being centered on Him. It's not about what we deem as good/bad... but what is supposed to happen so things turn out like He plans.

And you thought a theocracy was ... what?

 

[Meshavrischika]

Theocracy is a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler.

 

[IisJustMe]

The war Hitler started gave impetus to the formation of Israel and recognition of it's return to statehood some 1,922 years after it ceased to exist -- something that has never ever occurred among nations before, and to me that pretty much proves God, since He, through Ezekiel, promised that would happen.And you thought a theocracy was ... what?

Oops! Sorry. That was directed to CCGirl. Forgot you were the last referenced post.

 

[Athene]

again... this is not a theocracy. why is it left to Christians to preach forgiveness or kindness anyway? we don't have a monopoly on it.

No, but it is written in the Bible that we are to forgive others.

If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matt 6:14-15

 

[IisJustMe]

If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matt 6:14-15

You need to understand, that doesn't mean our sins are unforgiven. It means we tend to concentrate on your own hurts to the exclusion of realizing we have done things for which we need to go to the Lord in confession and repentance. Also, we do not run to those who have wronged us and offer blanket forgiveness without their asking. We must forgive in our hearts, but until they ask, it is not voiced. They may not realize they've done anything wrong, and offering a forgiveness unsolicited gives offense to someone who doesn't think they've done anything wrong.

Now ask yourself, do these men think they've done wrong? No. They think their "god" told them to do this. They deserve whatever the penalties under law allow. God Himself endorsed capital punishment in the Mosaic Law, and the Mosaic Law is the basis of virtually every single western culture legal system in existence.

 

[alonesoldier]

The central motive for all of Jesus' ethical teachings is that we are unable and thus need a savior. Any nation would be immediately destroyed if it passed 'turn the other cheek' into law. If Churchhill had been a 'better' christian by this legalistic interpretation we would all be Nazis now. The main purpose of Jesus' ethics wasn't to set up a new, more restrictive social program in this fallen world. He wasn't advocating stoning for everyone who thought about adultery. Nor was he saying that the Old Testament allowance for divorce was no longer open. He wasn't saying that governments should turn the other cheek. He was telling self-righteous people who believed they could stand before God on their own merits because they had never committed murder or adultery that they were in-fact just as much in need of a savior as anyone else. What he was doing was revealing how sinful our situation is. He lifts up God's ideal to drive us to the cross. But having done this the primary function for telling people that checking out a girl makes you an adulterer worthy of hell is over. Im tired of seeing the perfection of God as laid out by Jesus Christ being used to push everything from communism to anarchy. If you think Jesus came to make the ten commandments harder to live by you've missed the point!

 

[Athene]

You need to understand, that doesn't mean our sins are unforgiven. It means we tend to concentrate on your own hurts to the exclusion of realizing we have done things for which we need to go to the Lord in confession and repentance. Also, we do not run to those who have wronged us and offer blanket forgiveness without their asking. We must forgive in our hearts, but until they ask, it is not voiced. They may not realize they've done anything wrong, and offering a forgiveness unsolicited gives offense to someone who doesn't think they've done anything wrong.

Now ask yourself, do these men think they've done wrong? No. They think their "god" told them to do this. They deserve whatever the penalties under law allow. God Himself endorsed capital punishment in the Mosaic Law, and the Mosaic Law is the basis of virtually every single western culture legal system in existence.

I think you underestimate the power of grace and forgiveness.

 

[IisJustMe]

I think you underestimate the power of grace and forgiveness.

I never underestimate the power of God. I never underestimate the power of Satan, either, and that's who these men's "god" really is. They may claim to follow Allah, and even though I do not believe he is God, I know those who follow him from their heart, and not from hate, do not do what these men have done. I have been forgiven far too much to not understand, or to underestimate, the power of forgiveness. I an intimately aware of what it means. They have no desire for forgiveness and it may surprise you to know that I have forgiven them in my heart. That does not mean their deeds go unpunished, however. Karla Faye Tucker understood that. So did her family. It's a shame that other Christians cannot grasp it.

 

[Meshavrischika]

No, but it is written in the Bible that we are to forgive others.

If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. Matt 6:14-15

a) you can't forgive for others (i.e. the other citizens, victim's family, etc.)...

b) God says to follow the law of the land, for which the death penalty is a part in some places

c) what I believe, has nothing to do with what OTHERS should do... it's a me thing, not a them thing