the changing speed of light. dad, this thread is for you

[Loudmouth]

If all you have is science you know squat about spacetime out of the box. Deal with it. I am not saying it is a bad thing. Just the reality demonstrated by you and others here.

Science? Never. I have something better. It's called Revelsplition!!! It's the truth because IT IS!!!!

 

[dad]

Reality is solid state..

I understand that you need it to be physical only. But that is only a part of reality.

You can't seem to address the issues here of a different universe light, and how it worked.

 

[dad]

Science? Never. I have something better. It's called Revelsplition!!! It's the truth because IT IS!!!!

Well, you need a little more than that.

 

[Patashu]

What is your explanation for the ring of the supernova brightening and dimming 8 months after the supernova's center brightens and dims every single time, dad?

Could you answer this, dad?

 

[dad]

Could you answer this, dad?

I don't know.
I guess it is a pre split event. So far we have only seen it some 21 years. So, every 8 months isn't saying much. It would likely be one of these things, far as I can tell.
A pre split event.
An in split process event.

In either case, the light from core to ring was not bound to present light speed.

That means that the 8 months it now takes may not represent the original event time. It represents how the event was relayed in a PO universe.

If the event happened to represent the creation of a star, in creation week, then the time is different in a large degree. The stars were made in one day. In that case, the 8 months would represent some unit of a day, such as second, or minute, etc. We see it in this time space continuum as taking 8 months.

If the event is an exploding star around the time of the universe change, we could look for a similar time perception distortion here on PO state earth.

In either case, also, we simply need the event itself, to be carried to earth in present light.

That works either way as well. In the one case, of the exploding star, in the split process, the area there was first impacted by the universe change, and for a brief time, the space twixt there and here was not yet changed. That allows time for the event to be carried on it's way toward earth at extra ordinary PO speeds, until the process was complete, and even the event en route to earth was now in PO space, a PO universe, and existed as PO light!

In the creation of a star scenario, pre split, we have the sign in the heavens being ordered at the speed of the will of God, to arrive here precisely when it was supposed to arrive here.

 

[Mumbo]

Of course it does, or why would I mention it? If the universe was interactive with us, how would light in a SN be expected to be an exception?

i'm not saying that it's an exception, i'm saying it doesn't matter!

Not really. You have none.

i can quote talkorigins at you if you like

In the created state, we likely could see stars in real time. Like a live radio show. What we see now is a snapshot of the past.

come again?

When it flashed light was not a constant speed, is the idea here. So, how long the rings take to light up doesn't matter.

you're saying that light had many speeds before the split? that one photon of light could travel at one speed and another photon could move at another? if that's true, my argument is ruined!

but as usual, there is no evidence that this is the case. if there was, we'd see a lot more galaxies that look like this

 

[dad]

i'm not saying that it's an exception, i'm saying it doesn't matter!

If it doesn't matter, what does?

i can quote talkorigins at you if you like

If that is the best way you know how to speak for yourself, fine. What do they have to say about it??

come again?

OK, I better slow this down to PO light speed for you, this is the second time you claim to not get it.

The stars we see are a record of the past, not a live show.

In the different universe state, it is possible that stars could come in at something more like real time. In other words, if God turns on or off a star, it either goes on of off that day on this planet. In more or less, real time.

you're saying that light had many speeds before the split? that one photon of light could travel at one speed and another photon could move at another? if that's true, my argument is ruined!

Light may have been more than photons, it is not our light, remember. It may share some similarities with it, such as a photon, but not the limits of our state universe. I see no reason why all light would need to have some rigid fixed speed in the forever state.

but as usual, there is no evidence that this is the case. if there was, we'd see a lot more galaxies that look like this

Most of the universe is dark stuff, they claim, remember? I wonder how we would know if it was really a bunch of stars that were not shining when the split happened? They seem to think something is there, because of things like gravitational effects, etc.

 

[tanzanos]

The fabric of the universe is the laws that work together in our universe, and forces. For example, the weak nuclear force. The space time continuum, and that sort of thing. This is news??

It is amazing how DIM some people's views are concerning Bright celestial bodies.
If any of the constants were to change even slightly; then this universe could not exist. So DAD try again! Perhaps you can enlighten us as to which constants were different in your biblical universe?

 

[dad]

Hogwash!
If any of the constants were to change even slightly; then this universe could not exist. So DAD try again!

You missed the point. The constants we know are the change, no change in them is required.

 

[Mumbo]

If it doesn't matter, what does?

dunno, but we've already established that the supernova is in your past state, so we don't need to worry about that

If that is the best way you know how to speak for yourself, fine. What do they have to say about it??

on second thought, now that we've come full-circle, the last thing i need is more things to argue about. gonna chicken out on this one, if you don't mind

OK, I better slow this down to PO light speed for you, this is the second time you claim to not get it.

In the different universe state, it is possible that stars could come in at something more like real time. In other words, if God turns on or off a star, it either goes on of off that day on this planet. In more or less, real time.

got it. out of curiosity, what's your explanation for why one doesn't witness stars turning on and off?

Light may have been more than photons, it is not our light, remember. It may share some similarities with it, such as a photon, but not the limits of our state universe. I see no reason why all light would need to have some rigid fixed speed in the forever state.

of course not

Most of the universe is dark stuff, they claim, remember? I wonder how we would know if it was really a bunch of stars that were not shining when the split happened? They seem to think something is there, because of things like gravitational effects, etc.

you're changing the subject.

if light could move at any ol' speed it wanted in the past state, there would be evidence of it in the present state. the distant universe would be a jumbled mess. unless God didn't want it to be, of course; makes sense that He might want the universe to be aesthetically pleasing :I

if this is what you believe, then there's not much left to discuss

 

[tanzanos]

You missed the point. The constants we know are the change, no change in them is required.

Wrong answer DAD! I am very disappointed in you. Tsk tsk. Anyway don't loose your faith. I shall put in a good word for you the next time I speak with the boss!

 

[dad]

dunno, but we've already established that the supernova is in your past state, so we don't need to worry about that

Well, I expressed my opinion, that doesn't establish it.

got it. out of curiosity, what's your explanation for why one doesn't witness stars turning on and off?

Didn't SN1897a turn on a few decades ago?? Are not a third of the stars due to fall from the sky in the tribulation? But, generally, if we think about it, the stars are millions, and billions of our present light years away. It takes a while to turn them off and on in this state.

of course not

Great.

you're changing the subject.

Well, I was explaining stuff more clearly.

if light could move at any ol' speed it wanted in the past state, there would be evidence of it in the present state.

Well, no. Not if the whole thing was 'frozen' at the split in a snapshot of how it was at the time! All we would expect to see is the lights that were turned on that day.

the distant universe would be a jumbled mess. unless God didn't want it to be, of course; makes sense that He might want the universe to be aesthetically pleasing :I

No, because close or far, the stars could have their light get here fast at the time. No mess involved. The movie froze into a picture, we might say, and no mess is involved.

If there were a bunch that were not shining, all we would see is dark stuff. What do we see? The evidence mounts.

if this is what you believe, then there's not much left to discuss

Well, I do feel that a different state universe existed, and will exist in the future again. Not much science can say against it, and it does fit the evidences, and bible.

 

[dad]

Wrong answer DAD! I am very disappointed in you. Tsk tsk. Anyway don't loose your faith. I shall put in a good word for you the next time I speak with the boss!

I see, while there, see if you can pull the old, 'the Chinese have records going back 5000 years' routine.

 

[tanzanos]

I see, while there, see if you can pull the old, 'the Chinese have records going back 5000 years' routine.

http://www.yutopian.com/names/nametree.html

Ah the power of the Lord. No sooner had I requested it and it landed straight from heaven into this post!

Keep the faith bro!

 

[dad]

http://www.yutopian.com/names/nametree.html

Ah the power of the Lord. No sooner had I requested it and it landed straight from heaven into this post!

Keep the faith bro!

Well, I looked at your link for the reliable records. It seems that the first folks on the list were these guys
"The common ancestors of the Chinese race are often regarded as Fu Xi and Nu Huo. According to the legend, they were brother and sister (children of God), but also husband and wife. It puzzled historians why Fu Xi and Nu Huo were often depicted as having human upper body, but with the lower body of a serpent."


How were the years determined, by counting layers of skin shed??

 

[tanzanos]

Well, I looked at your link for the reliable records. It seems that the first folks on the list were these guys
"The common ancestors of the Chinese race are often regarded as Fu Xi and Nu Huo. According to the legend, they were brother and sister (children of God), but also husband and wife. It puzzled historians why Fu Xi and Nu Huo were often depicted as having human upper body, but with the lower body of a serpent."


How were the years determined, by counting layers of skin shed??

Actually they used the bible as a reference for more accurate dating!

 

[dad]

Actually they used the bible as a reference for more accurate dating!

So, let's get this straight. You claim records exist to say that the Chinese have actual records that go back 5000 years. You are shown to be unable to support that, and now claim that we are to use the bible records, because they are more accurate. OK.
I have been doing that all along, but I see no Chinese in there in the first 1000 years of mankind. Can you show us where they are??

 

[tanzanos]

So, let's get this straight. You claim records exist to say that the Chinese have actual records that go back 5000 years. You are shown to be unable to support that, and now claim that we are to use the bible records, because they are more accurate. OK.
I have been doing that all along, but I see no Chinese in there in the first 1000 years of mankind. Can you show us where they are??

By 3,000 BC the Greeks (including Minoans),Chinese, Mesopotamians, Hindus, Egyptians; all had developed writing.

You really should keep the faith DAD and stop allowing yourself to be persuaded into theories deemed blasphemous. I can only help so much by putting in a good word for you but apart from that it is in thine hands.

 

[Mumbo]

Didn't SN1897a turn on a few decades ago??

i had a feeling you'd say that. fine

Are not a third of the stars due to fall from the sky in the tribulation?

anytime now!

But, generally, if we think about it, the stars are millions, and billions of our present light years away. It takes a while to turn them off and on in this state.

i don't think i'll enquire further on this one

Well, no. Not if the whole thing was 'frozen' at the split in a snapshot of how it was at the time! All we would expect to see is the lights that were turned on that day.

No, because close or far, the stars could have their light get here fast at the time. No mess involved. The movie froze into a picture, we might say, and no mess is involved.

so the night sky is partially a moving frozen picture with blinking lights that appears to be going backwards in time. got it.

wait, no i don't. explain how time can appear to be both backwards and frozen simultaneously, please.

If there were a bunch that were not shining, all we would see is dark stuff. What do we see? The evidence mounts.

if anyone else said this i'd object, but this is almost logical compared to your other ideas

 

[FishFace]

Depends on what the box is. If it is used, as I use the word, to denote a limited area, as related to PO science, then the limits are clear. Science admits it only covers the natural, the physical.

Wrong, actually. Science covers anything observable and testable. You have any reliable method for discerning facts about what isn't observable or testable?

Those are the limits of your fishbowl, those are the limits of your box. Clear and defined, and present, and incontestable by science.

Even if I accepted what you claim are those limits, you still don't know where or when the box boundaries lie. You claim it was about 4,000 years ago. Evidence is needed.

Depends what you call good. I think that the bible is a good book.

I think the Lord of the Rings is a good book, but I don't believe in hobbits.