Question

[toirewadokodesuka]

ok, im really confused now about the inquisitions and why the popes authorised it!??? .... my friend keeps on going on about this. what should i say... what do you think about this? he keeps on saying... how can i believe the popes were perfect if they authorised the inquisitions? But they didnt authorise the inquisitions!

 

[Miss Shelby]

Tell your friends that it’s lame to drag stuff up from centuries ago just because they wanna have a problem with the Church. Then buy them an ice cream or something.

 

[Filia Mariae]

The pope's not perfect. Who the heck thinks he is?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I don't know much about the inquisitions, but as far as I know Catholic doctrine doesn't teach that Popes are perfect. It teaches that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from going into error. Popes are human and like everyone else have made mistakes in the past, but the Holy Spirit makes sure that they don't teach incorrect doctrine.

(Did I get this right?)

 

[Rhamiel]

In Spain the King kicked out all the jews and muslims, so a lot of them "converted" this is right after the spanish monarchy took back a lot of land that was conqured by muslim nations. So there are a lot of new Christians and there are a lot of false converts, and it is the middle ages so there is still a lot of alchemy and witchcraft and superstition. the Inquesition was a reform movement to make sure that false converts were not curropting the Church and to make sure that people were not teaching heresy. It was a good idea but some of the methods were bad, although the forced confession was a normal part of medeival trials, you needed total evidence before someone could be found guilty, they did not really have CSI in 1492 so part of the evidese would be a confession

 

[Filia Mariae]

I don't know much about the inquisitions, but as far as I know Catholic doctrine doesn't teach that Popes are perfect. It teaches that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from going into error. Popes are human and like everyone else have made mistakes in the past, but the Holy Spirit makes sure that they don't teach incorrect doctrine.

(Did I get this right?)

Pretty much.

 

[toirewadokodesuka]

I don't know much about the inquisitions, but as far as I know Catholic doctrine doesn't teach that Popes are perfect. It teaches that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from going into error. Popes are human and like everyone else have made mistakes in the past, but the Holy Spirit makes sure that they don't teach incorrect doctrine.

(Did I get this right?)

What about the doctrine that a heretic must be tortured till he recants and converts... is that prepared by the Holy spirit too???

thats the kind of thing he asks... and he talks about a whole lot of other rubbish.... he even says that the vatican signed with hitler nazi regime to kill the jews... this dude has so much stuff on us i just dont know what to do... and i look at his sources. read them from beginning to end, and im shocked. is this how our church really started. i never new this stuff... and im starting to resent it a little. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah....... idk........... its a lot for me to process right now. im just making my convictions open to you guys.
anywayz
god bless

 

[toirewadokodesuka]

In Spain the King kicked out all the jews and muslims, so a lot of them "converted" this is right after the spanish monarchy took back a lot of land that was conqured by muslim nations. So there are a lot of new Christians and there are a lot of false converts, and it is the middle ages so there is still a lot of alchemy and witchcraft and superstition. the Inquesition was a reform movement to make sure that false converts were not curropting the Church and to make sure that people were not teaching heresy. It was a good idea but some of the methods were bad, although the forced confession was a normal part of medeival trials, you needed total evidence before someone could be found guilty, they did not really have CSI in 1492 so part of the evidese would be a confession

i think the vatican documents most of its execusions in its libraries or catacums or something....... i read something about that, about this preist who was reading through the records

 

[toirewadokodesuka]

I don't know much about the inquisitions, but as far as I know Catholic doctrine doesn't teach that Popes are perfect. It teaches that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from going into error. Popes are human and like everyone else have made mistakes in the past, but the Holy Spirit makes sure that they don't teach incorrect doctrine.

(Did I get this right?)

i should have picked him up on that

 

[toirewadokodesuka]

Tell your friends that it’s lame to drag stuff up from centuries ago just because they wanna have a problem with the Church. Then buy them an ice cream or something.

i spose thats one way of dealing with it, besides i read somewhere in the bible that we arent to blame for our fathers sins or something like that... that our fathers sins arent passed on to us

 

[toirewadokodesuka]

im trying to find a balance with my church... maybe i should just deny its past completely and just go with the future... but the future is built on the past... so how can i deny the future if it mirrors the past? thats an on going question in my mind.......
ok im out for real now^__^
night ppl

 

[Miss Shelby]

thats the kind of thing he asks... and he talks about a whole lot of other rubbish.... he even says that the vatican signed with hitler nazi regime to kill the jews... this dude has so much stuff on us i just dont know what to do... and i look at his sources. read them from beginning to end, and im shocked. is this how our church really started. i never new this stuff... and im starting to resent it a little.

what kinda sources did he give ya little man? Jack Chick?

There's a lot of bogus info out there that could probably pass for scholarly material to the untrained eye. I wouldn't sell the hairshirt just yet.

 

[Davidnic]

Read this: link

Says it all better than I could.

 

[InTheCloud]

In those times there was no modern political theory, kings depended on the Church for legitimacy.
If you did not believe in the Church, you probably do not believe in the King either. God and Country were intrinsicaly tied.
So the Kings were very jealous to stamp out heresy. And in those times Churches took salvation very seriously. False doctrines were sending people to Hell and had to be stopped. Is like those annoying evangelicals or JW of today that what to save you and keep pestering you because they are concerned for your salvation but their methods were much more serious them. That set the pace for the inquisitions.
There were three.
The Papal inquisition in Italy that was the most benign.
The French inquisition to stap out the Cathari heresy and the infamious Spanish inquisition.
But remember, torture was a normal procedure in those times not only in the Inquisition but in most court of law, also burning at the sake (death by asfixiation) was more bening that quartering or dismembering, normal ways to execute people in those times. The Inquisition was more benign that most civilan courts of the times.
The Papal inquisition was from the Pope.
The French and Spanish ones were actually established by the Kings, not by the Church, king that knew if heresy spreads in France they will loose their crowns.
The Spanish have a huge problem with large numbers of Jews and Moslems in Spain that did not believe in the divine rule of Queen Isabella.
Even the number of deaths was relatively small.
The popular Catholic/Protestant withhunts of the 17 century killed more people, as the war of religion at that time.

 

[QuantaCura]

ok, im really confused now about the inquisitions and why the popes authorised it!??? .... my friend keeps on going on about this. what should i say... what do you think about this? he keeps on saying... how can i believe the popes were perfect if they authorised the inquisitions? But they didnt authorise the inquisitions!

First off, Popes aren't perfect--they are only infallible when definitively confirming a truth of the faith for the whole Church--not when authorizing certain judicial actions for particular regions.

Next, it depends which Inquisition. It also bears mentioning that the Inquisitions only had jurisdiction over professing Catholics, not professing Jews, Muslims, pagans, etc. The idea was to find people who were covertly trying to subvert the Church and society (which were essentially one in countries where almost everyone was Catholic.).

The reason people were put to death by the state after three offenses was because given their experience with particular heretical movements, there was a fundamental assumption that heretics caused violent civil unrest. Most of us would not argue against the state taking forceful action against certain religious groups if they are dangerous to the common good--remember how David Koresh and the Branch Davidians were taken out?

It also bears pointing out that the per year death totals were less than those of the state of Texas.

Were there abuses? Of course, and the late Holy Father admitted as much and apologized for any sins committed in an overzealous defense of the Gospel.

 

[Col]

ok, im really confused now about the inquisitions and why the popes authorised it!??? .... my friend keeps on going on about this. what should i say... what do you think about this? he keeps on saying... how can i believe the popes were perfect if they authorised the inquisitions? But they didnt authorise the inquisitions!

Non-catholic faiths are also guilty of poor judgement in the past. And both the Catholic church and non-catholic faiths will inevitably make errors again in the future. However despite errors made at times by the church, the original deposit of faith and catholic teaching has not suffered. Which is something that no other church can claim. And as such one can see how God's guiding hand is ever present on his church and that the "gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

Maybe attacking you is his defensive way of being able to find out more about catholicism.
Why don't you take him along to Mass and see how he feels afterwards.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Non-catholic faiths are also guilty of poor judgement in the past.

Yeah great point. Hey ask your buds how they can belong to a Fundamental Protestant faith when lots of their forefathers were responsible for founding and building the KKK. If they fail to get the point, just start calling them all 'Mr. Lynch'.

On second thought maybe that might be counterproductive. But it sure would be fun!

 

[toirewadokodesuka]

what kinda sources did he give ya little man? Jack Chick?

There's a lot of bogus info out there that could probably pass for scholarly material to the untrained eye. I wouldn't sell the hairshirt just yet.

ugh dude i never bother remembering anything like that really... normally just read my NIV... u know... like a layed back CHRISTIAN!

agree what u say... but i think it goes all ways... sure our saints and preists have done their fare share of fabricating.
cheers

 

[Caritas3]

what kinda sources did he give ya little man? Jack Chick?

There's a lot of bogus info out there that could probably pass for scholarly material to the untrained eye. I wouldn't sell the hairshirt just yet.

That is for sure!
Sites like Chicks are full of half information so it distorts the truth about us.
I've been through some of his "articles". A bunch of junk.

 

[Caritas3]

ok, im really confused now about the inquisitions and why the popes authorised it!??? .... my friend keeps on going on about this. what should i say... what do you think about this? he keeps on saying... how can i believe the popes were perfect if they authorised the inquisitions? But they didnt authorise the inquisitions!

We all need to be able to understand what and why we believe what we do, and the history of the Church. So we can explain it to others correctly.

I am guilty of not doing this as I should myself.