A re-examination of nothing

[Chaplain David]

Not all Christians have made Jesus their LORD. Some are merely content with Him as Saviour and their fire insurance.

If someone hasn't made Jesus their Lord then they are not Christians. It's like the pregnancy thing people used to say, "you can't be a little bit pregnant." You either are or you aren't.

 

[Floatingaxe]

If someone hasn't made Jesus their Lord then they are not Christians. It's like the pregnancy thing people used to say, "you can't be a little bit pregnant." You either are or you aren't.

That is not true. There are millions of Christians who have received God's free gift of salvation and recieve Jesus as Saviour, but it is in sanctification that a believer comes to the point of surrendering all, making Jesus his Lord.

Many believers don't make it to that point, or refuse to go deeper in Christ in total surrender. It's a process begun with a decision regarding Jesus' Lordship.

I know many Christians who have never made Jesus their Lord. That is the situation when we encounter carnal Christians.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Confusion over what constitutes sanctification accounts for that. That and tons and tons of severely toxic false soteriology what ought to be gathered together like dry sticks for the fire, and burned, and eternally removed from human minds. All who follow a behavioral modification program for the flesh and call that "sanctification" deceive themselves in vain. Their pride and arrogance testify against them that they have no practical knowledge nor working experience in truly walking in the Spirit whatsoever. They deceive themselves and the truth bes not in them.... but by means of a very self-righteous RELIGIOUS SPIRIT they sure put on a grand show and have succeeded in all but hijacking Christendom to service the Beast.

Meanwhile Satan got so bored with all these ppls pretending they serve God doing HIS work for Him, He decided to embark on a pilgrimage to Tir na Nog to help pass the time....

 

[Floatingaxe]

Sanctification is a work not of the flesh but of the Holy Spirit in a person.

 

[MercyBurst]

Sanctification is a work not of the flesh but of the Holy Spirit in a person.

I have to agree with you Floating Axe.

Doubting Thomas comes to mind. Jesus keeps His promises though we don't always succeed in making Him Lord of our Life, as Thomas failed to have faith at one point.

We are human and we fail to make Him Lord of our Life -- but that doesn't mean Jesus abandons us.

Who can honestly say that they have loved the Lord with all their heart, spirit, mind, and soul for all of their Christian life? Even Jesus's own disciples failed in that regard.

 

[tulc]

You have been told the meaning of that instruction of Jesus. If you took it the way you are claiming, why don't you follow it?

How do you know she hasn't?
tulc(just curious)

 

[Chaplain David]

That is not true. There are millions of Christians who have received God's free gift of salvation and recieve Jesus as Saviour, but it is in sanctification that a believer comes to the point of surrendering all, making Jesus his Lord.

Many believers don't make it to that point, or refuse to go deeper in Christ in total surrender. It's a process begun with a decision regarding Jesus' Lordship.

I know many Christians who have never made Jesus their Lord. That is the situation when we encounter carnal Christians.

Your argument is illogical. The defining point of being a Christian is accepting Christ as Lord. If one hasn't done that the person might be fond of Jesus, or think he was a cool teacher, or a prophet but they are not a Christian. A Christian is one who accepts Jesus Christ as Lord. All the other steps follow upon acceptance.

New Unger's Bible Dictionary:

CHRISTIAN. A Christian is a believer in and a follower of Jesus Christ the Messiah. This name is more widely employed than any other designation of those who believe unto salvation. However, it occurs in the Scriptures only three times: "And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" (Acts 11:26); "and Agrippa replied to Paul, 'In a short time you will persuade me to become a Christian'" (26:28); "If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed" (1 Peter 4:16).

The term Christian is clearly a Gentile designation for believers because the word Christ, upon which the term was constructed, suggests recognition of the Messiah, which no unbelieving Jew was prepared to do. Becoming a Christian, according to the NT, is a definite act with significant results.

According to Lewis Sperry Chafer, no fewer than thirty-three simultaneous and instantaneous divine undertakings and transformations, which collectively constitute the salvation of a soul, take place the moment one exercises faith in Christ and is saved.

Among these is that a believer in Christ has the guilt of his sins removed. Second, he is taken out of Adam, the sphere of condemnation, and placed in Christ, the sphere of righteousness and justification. Third, he is given a new standing by virtue of his being placed "in Christ" by the Spirit's baptizing work (1 Cor 12:13; Rom 6:3-4). A Christian then, as Chafer says, "Is not one who does certain things for God but . . . one for whom God has done certain things; he is not so much one who conforms to a certain manner of life as he is one who has received the gift of eternal life; he is not one who depends upon a hopelessly imperfect state but rather one who has reached a perfect standing before God as being in Christ" (Systematic Theology, 7:75).

 

[Floatingaxe]

Your argument is illogical. The defining point of being a Christian is accepting Christ as Lord. If one hasn't done that the person might be fond of Jesus, or think he was a cool teacher, or a prophet but they are not a Christian. A Christian is one who accepts Jesus Christ as Lord. All the other steps follow upon acceptance.

New Unger's Bible Dictionary:

CHRISTIAN. A Christian is a believer in and a follower of Jesus Christ the Messiah. This name is more widely employed than any other designation of those who believe unto salvation. However, it occurs in the Scriptures only three times: "And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" (Acts 11:26); "and Agrippa replied to Paul, 'In a short time you will persuade me to become a Christian'" (26:28); "If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed" (1 Peter 4:16).

The term Christian is clearly a Gentile designation for believers because the word Christ, upon which the term was constructed, suggests recognition of the Messiah, which no unbelieving Jew was prepared to do. Becoming a Christian, according to the NT, is a definite act with significant results.

According to Lewis Sperry Chafer, no fewer than thirty-three simultaneous and instantaneous divine undertakings and transformations, which collectively constitute the salvation of a soul, take place the moment one exercises faith in Christ and is saved.

Among these is that a believer in Christ has the guilt of his sins removed. Second, he is taken out of Adam, the sphere of condemnation, and placed in Christ, the sphere of righteousness and justification. Third, he is given a new standing by virtue of his being placed "in Christ" by the Spirit's baptizing work (1 Cor 12:13; Rom 6:3-4). A Christian then, as Chafer says, "Is not one who does certain things for God but . . . one for whom God has done certain things; he is not so much one who conforms to a certain manner of life as he is one who has received the gift of eternal life; he is not one who depends upon a hopelessly imperfect state but rather one who has reached a perfect standing before God as being in Christ" (Systematic Theology, 7:75).

My argument is not illogical. Once we are saved, we begin a process of sanctification where in we proceed to make Jesus our Lord and Master. Some people are fortunate enough to not have such a hard battle with self and the flesh, that they can set Him in as Lord right away. Most of us, however, begin a period of discipling where that is taught--about His Lordship over every area of our lives.

Most believers don't know enough to even cnsider that there are compartments or rooms in one's "house" that Jesus wants keys to. For most of us, it is a process that takes some time.

Not every new Christian is totally submitted to Jesus as Lord immediately. They need to be taught about that as well as many other things.

 

[MercyBurst]

Your argument is illogical. The defining point of being a Christian is accepting Christ as Lord. If one hasn't done that the person might be fond of Jesus, or think he was a cool teacher, or a prophet but they are not a Christian. A Christian is one who accepts Jesus Christ as Lord. All the other steps follow upon acceptance.

New Unger's Bible Dictionary:

CHRISTIAN. A Christian is a believer in and a follower of Jesus Christ the Messiah. This name is more widely employed than any other designation of those who believe unto salvation. However, it occurs in the Scriptures only three times: "And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" (Acts 11:26); "and Agrippa replied to Paul, 'In a short time you will persuade me to become a Christian'" (26:28); "If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed" (1 Peter 4:16).

The term Christian is clearly a Gentile designation for believers because the word Christ, upon which the term was constructed, suggests recognition of the Messiah, which no unbelieving Jew was prepared to do. Becoming a Christian, according to the NT, is a definite act with significant results.

According to Lewis Sperry Chafer, no fewer than thirty-three simultaneous and instantaneous divine undertakings and transformations, which collectively constitute the salvation of a soul, take place the moment one exercises faith in Christ and is saved.

Among these is that a believer in Christ has the guilt of his sins removed. Second, he is taken out of Adam, the sphere of condemnation, and placed in Christ, the sphere of righteousness and justification. Third, he is given a new standing by virtue of his being placed "in Christ" by the Spirit's baptizing work (1 Cor 12:13; Rom 6:3-4). A Christian then, as Chafer says, "Is not one who does certain things for God but . . . one for whom God has done certain things; he is not so much one who conforms to a certain manner of life as he is one who has received the gift of eternal life; he is not one who depends upon a hopelessly imperfect state but rather one who has reached a perfect standing before God as being in Christ" (Systematic Theology, 7:75).

I don't think any of us would deny that Jesus is the Lord of our Life when we become saved. But does everyone keep Jesus as the Lord of their life for their entire Christian life? I think the answer is no. There are backsliders, and every believer has their ups and downs in the faith.

Obviously when Ted Haggard was having extramarital relationships, Jesus was not Lord of his life. But can any of us say he was never saved? I don't think we can make that appraisal.

I do know this, however, Jesus has a love big enough to forgive for anyone that wants to repent. None of us can help our human nature, but we can ask Jesus to make things His way instead of our way.

This is how we enter the straight gate, by removing everything and giving it to Christ.

 

[tulc]

Sorry, you and sacerdote are having a nice conversation here, no sense derailing it.
tulc(resuming coffee drinking, carry on please)

 

[Chaplain David]

I don't think any of us would deny that Jesus is the Lord of our Life when we become saved. But does everyone keep Jesus as the Lord of their life for their entire Christian life? I think the answer is no. There are backsliders, and every believer has their ups and downs in the faith.

Obviously when Ted Haggard was having extramarital relationships, Jesus was not Lord of his life. But can any of us say he was never saved? I don't think we can make that appraisal.

I do know this, however, Jesus has a love big enough to forgive for anyone that wants to repent. None of us can help our human nature, but we can ask Jesus to make things His way instead of our way.

Well written, diplomatic reply, thank you. I will admit to having backslid. How about you?

While our growth in Christ continues and we continue to mature as new creatures (new creations), I do not see us becoming perfect and without sin in behavior or thought in this life. Yes we are saved, yes we are born again, but yes, we will, despite our best efforts, struggle with sin until we are called home. Naturally we will improve but that, like everything else that is good, is by and from the grace of God.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

There is no such thing as "gay theology." There are gay people who are theologians, but that does not mean that what they write is "gay theology."

there is no such thing as same-sex marriage to God. Sure there are such unions which people call marriage, and I have demonstrated that from the Bible. ‘Gay theology’ is my description but is not about people who are homosexual who are theologians, as you incorrectly implied, but rather a theology which promotes same-sex unions which is of course extra-Biblical and therefore not a Christian theology.

Men who have sex with men are not necessarily "homosexuals." They may be, but they may not be.

Ok so men who have sex with men are heterosexuals? What is your definition of ‘homosexual’ and ‘heterosexual’ again?

 

[Ohioprof]

No, you do. The great majority of born again Christians have got it straight---men who have sex with men are homosexuals, and they have big problems that need dealing with--not encouragement to go deeper into their sin.

Instead of judging and labeling other people, why not accept others as they are and let people decide for themselves what they will call themselves?

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,
there is no such thing as same-sex marriage to God. Sure there are such unions which people call marriage, and I have demonstrated that from the Bible. ‘Gay theology’ is my description but is not about people who are homosexual who are theologians, as you incorrectly implied, but rather a theology which promotes same-sex unions which is of course extra-Biblical and therefore not a Christian theology.

Ok so men who have sex with men are heterosexuals? What is your definition of ‘homosexual’ and ‘heterosexual’ again?

Your arguments against same-sex marriage are just your opinions, not the opinions of God. And your arguments against same-sex marriage are reading your beliefs into the silence in the Bible.

I do not presume to label someone else gay or bisexual or heterosexual. That's up to them. I do know that many gay people have had opposite-sex sexual relations, and many heterosexuals have had same-sex sexual relations. Having sex with someone is not what makes a person's sexual orientation. My sexual orientation is homosexual. I am attracted, emotionally and sexually, to other women and would form a life partnership with another woman if I were going to form a life partnership. That doesn't mean I can't have sex with a man. But my deep emotional bonds are with women. I would marry a woman if I chose to marry.
I can find a man somewhat sexually attractive, but I don't fall in love with men or find a relationship with a man fulfilling. I do fall in love with women. I could have sex with a man, but for me this would be boring and blah and meaningless. It would just be physical sex. I don't do it.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Sanctification is a work not of the flesh but of the Holy Spirit in a person.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I don't think any of us would deny that Jesus is the Lord of our Life when we become saved. But does everyone keep Jesus as the Lord of their life for their entire Christian life? I think the answer is no. There are backsliders, and every believer has their ups and downs in the faith.

Obviously when Ted Haggard was having extramarital relationships, Jesus was not Lord of his life. But can any of us say he was never saved? I don't think we can make that appraisal.

then how hard can it be to freaking extend that to anyone and everyone else, regardless of their "sin" (real or perceived) or what you personally think of them as an individual? Don't you think JC would want you doing that???

I do know this, however, Jesus has a love big enough to forgive for anyone that wants to repent. None of us can help our human nature, but we can ask Jesus to make things His way instead of our way.

We can also stop assuming that because someone does not conform to what WE think the results of that prayer should be means they have not prayed it and not meant it as earnestly and sincerely as any OTHER sinful, imperfect creature possibly could.

Bottom line, none of us has any room to judge so why can't we just can the self-righteous divisive crap and get down to the business of loving one another, encouraging one another in Him, and "lifting Him up"? Personally, it would like to see way way way MORE posts from you, MB, like the paragraph above, and far, far less (how about NONE for starters, and moving from there to ZERO) of the rancid type it has been seeing heretofore. When you lift up JC it bes brilliant. When you puts down ppls, it sucks.

This is how we enter the straight gate, by removing everything and giving it to Christ.

Could you model this behavior for the rest of us, by chance?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Ohioprof,

Your arguments against same-sex marriage are just your opinions, not the opinions of God. And your arguments against same-sex marriage are reading your beliefs into the silence in the Bible.

No my argument is that according to the Bible there is no such thing as same-sex marriage, marriage is defined in the Bible as man and woman and not same sex, same-sex unions are condemned in the Bible. I also believe the Bible is God’s word so they are the opinions of God. The only way one could argue the Bible isnt God’s opinion is if one doesn’t believe the Bible is God’s opinion.

Having sex with someone is not what makes a person's sexual orientation.

That’s true that’s why a gay man and a lesbian woman can get married if they wish; heterosexual and homosexual are sexual attractions/desires. But my question is how can anyone be identified as a heterosexual if they have same-sex sex. Having same-sex sex indicates they are homosexual in having same-sex attraction.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

You have been told the meaning of that instruction of Jesus. If you took it the way you are claiming, why don't you follow it? You told me you accepted Jesus Christ as your Saviour a while back...November, wasn't it?

You simply reveal yourself as one who goads and jeers at believers by your continual harping about this issue.

Take the understanding given you and move on already. Otherwise, I should think you are baiting and harrassing.

I havn't sold all my goods and given the proceeds to the poor because I'm not a Biblical literalist.

And if I "harp" on an issue, its only for want of a satisfactory answer.

I'm still waiting for you to present any actual evidence that evolution is false, or that there is a "gay agenda", amongst other things.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No my argument is that according to the Bible there is no such thing as same-sex marriage

The Bible says nothing of the sort.

marriage is defined in the Bible as man and woman and not same sex

actually, the Bible never defines marriage at all, let alone what the disposition of its participants should be.

same-sex unions are condemned in the Bible

baloney.

I also believe the Bible is God’s word so they are the opinions of God.

even though not even the Bible makes such a claim.

But my question is how can anyone be identified as a heterosexual if they have same-sex sex. Having same-sex sex indicates they are homosexual in having same-sex attraction.

Situational dictates.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear EnemyPartyII,

The Bible says nothing of the sort.

The Bible does indeed explain why there is no such thing as same-sex marriage, as it defines marriage as man and woman. Man and woman is not a same-sex union

actually, the Bible never defines marriage at all, let alone what the disposition of its participants should be.

The Bible defines marriage between man and woman about 180 times! See a couple of early examples.
Genesis 4:19 “Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. “
Genesis 19:14 “So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, "Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!" But his sons-in-law thought he was joking. “
Do you think Lot was joking

baloney.

Rubbish, Same-sex unions are condemned in the Bible, see Gen 19, Lev 18:22, 1 Cor 6, Romans 1 etc.

even though not even the Bible makes such a claim.

The Bible does make such a claim, in several places. For example Jesus says to the Pharisees have you not read that in the beginning God made them male and female, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be untied with his wife and the two shall become one flesh. That’s in the Bible Matt 19 and refers to Genesis 2 which is also in the Bible.