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Rape Condoned in the Bible

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MichaelD111

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Ten examples of rape being condoned in the Bible can be found here:
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

Here is one of example:

6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]


What is the Christian defense?
 

TexasSky

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Well, in the example you are showing - since it says that what David did in secret will be done for all of Israel to see, the verse means that if David doesn't repent, he will die in war, and his wives will become the wife of the one who conquers him.

It is actually a very common type of punishment from God that you will be treated as you have treated others. David murdered Bathsheba's husband so he could hide his sin in getting another man's wife pregnant.

God is threatening to do to David, the King, what David did to a poor soldier.

Moreover, it was the tradition of that age in many lands that when a king conquered another king, the victorious king took the defeated king's wives as his own, and yes, the consumation in these cases was done in full view.

It was not considered "rape" however. It was considered a lawful marriage.

However, David did repent, and this did not happen.
 
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TexasSky

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First, you have to understand that Israel was surrounded by many other kingdoms, that often they were prisoners of other lands.

Against God's will a LOT of them did things that were typical of the non-godly socieities around them. So laws had to be developed to handle situations that were caused by the sins of men.

In regards to Jabesh and Gilead:

The bible does not condone the actions at all.
It records them, but it does not say this was a command from God. It does not say it was condoned from God. It doesn't even say they asked God for guideance.

It does say, "In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as he saw fit."

And they did things that were very, very wrong, in the eyes of God.

This story is an example of how bad men are without God's guideance.

In regards to Moses and the Midianites:
They Midianites were slave owners who joined with the King of Moab to try to put a curse on Isreal. When that failed, they invited the Israelites to participate in a "ceremony" that worshipped the idol Baal-peor. This ceremony was a rituatlitistic orgie that resulted in a plague that killed 24,000 Israelites.

Moses' men were supposed to have killed anyone connected to that plague, and to have spared virgins. Instead, his men had sex with the women who had participated in the orgy.

Moses was furious, called the men impure for what they did, and reminded them that these women had caused the plague. He ordered the women killed,.

Now, if you want to debate whether the women deserved to die or not, that is one arguement.

However, you have come here stating this story shows that our bible condones rape. In fact, Moses is furious that these men "lay with these women" and orders them to be cleansed afterwards, etc.

It does not, therefore, "condone rape".

In regards to Deuteronomy.
Women in that society could not provide food or protection alone. This was a society that hunted and farmed. Women alone were considered helpless, and yes, useless.

The law stating that a man who raped a woman had to marry her was a law that protected this woman from starving to death in the streets. It stated that the man, from that day forward, was her provider and care taker. He had to care for her.

Which, I think, beats the heck out of our world's view that he goes to prison a few years and then forgets he ever harmed her.

In the second case in Deuteronomy, it does not say anything about rape. It says if an engaged woman (which in biblical times meant as much to them as marriage), sleeps with a man, and it is NOT rape (she did not cry for help), she and the man are guilty of adultery and suffer the penalty of adultery.

People love to use this as an example of rape, but it never says that the girl is forced. It says if she had relations and didn't cry for help..... the implication being, she was cheating on her future husband.

What your site calls "rape" is actualy the prevention OF rape. Instead of grabbing a woman captive in war and raping her in the streets, they are told that they have to take the woman into their house, not as a captive, but as an equal. They have to let her mourn the loss of her family, and they have to marry her before they can touch her.

In the Song of Deborah, it is not the Isrealite who is "dividing women." It is the mother of the General who the Israelites fought asking, "Where is my son," and being told by one of her women, "He is probably dividing the spoils of war." There is an irony in this, in that while the General was dividing women as a spoil of war, one of those women killed him.

And again, in Exodus, the verse you quote is a vote offering protection to the victim. If a man takes a woman as a slave (and it does not mention sex by the way), the girl is protected from being thrown out on the streets, without anyone to provide for her or protect her. The father can take her back, she can marry the son of the man her father sold her to, but she must be treated like a daughter to whoever marrires her. He cannot treat her like less than any free woman in his household.

And then:
Your verse from Zehcariah.

The bible says that there will be a day when the people of Israel are watching as other nations plunder Jerusalem and ravish the women, and at that time, God will go out and fight against those nations.

Again, not condoning rape, as your site would have people believe.
 
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TexasSky

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Women's feelings are often considered in the old testament.

Sarah begged for children, and was given Isaac in her old age.
Hagar begged God for help and an angel came to her and Ishmael.
Deborah was a respected prophet of God.

That said. Men throughout history have blamed women for Adam's fall in Eden.

Satan approached her first.
The woman was the first to disobey God.
The woman talked Adam into disobeying God.

When God asks Adam, "Who told you were naked? Have you eated from teh tree I commanded you not to eat from?"

Adam says, "The woman you put here with me, she gave me fruit from the tree!"

And God asks Eve, "What is this you have done?"

And Eve goes, "The serpent deceived me!"

And curse for what Eve did was that a woman's husband would rule over a woman.

Her punishment was to be subservient to men.

And ancient men took that very seriously.

They treated women like everything that was wrong in the world was the fault of women.
 
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HuntingMan

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How come women's feelings are never considered in the Old Testament? Everything seems to revolve men and what makes them happy (or upset).
I would beg to differ somewhat.
Exodus 21 shows that this wife could leave this husband if he married a second woman and even remotely failed to provide for this first woman in every manner that he had previously.

Deut 24:1-4 also is regulation that is an attempt to stop these men from doing what they were doing to their innocent wives.

The culture was different, for sure.
My guess is that God was not entirely happy with the men of Israel...
I will not punish your daughters when they fornicate, nor your brides when they commit adultery. For the men themselves go aside with harlots, and they sacrifice with temple prostitutes. The people who do not understand are thrust down.
(Hos 4:14 LITV)
 
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ContentInHim

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Well, in the example you are showing - since it says that what David did in secret will be done for all of Israel to see, the verse means that if David doesn't repent, he will die in war, and his wives will become the wife of the one who conquers him.

It is actually a very common type of punishment from God that you will be treated as you have treated others. David murdered Bathsheba's husband so he could hide his sin in getting another man's wife pregnant.

God is threatening to do to David, the King, what David did to a poor soldier.

Moreover, it was the tradition of that age in many lands that when a king conquered another king, the victorious king took the defeated king's wives as his own, and yes, the consumation in these cases was done in full view.

It was not considered "rape" however. It was considered a lawful marriage.

However, David did repent, and this did not happen.
Wrong - it did happen when David's son, Absalom, took his concubines to bed on the roof for all Jerusalem to see. :(
 
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*Starlight*

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What your site calls "rape" is actualy the prevention OF rape. Instead of grabbing a woman captive in war and raping her in the streets, they are told that they have to take the woman into their house, not as a captive, but as an equal. They have to let her mourn the loss of her family, and they have to marry her before they can touch her.
What if she didn't want to get married to someone who killed everyone she loved?
 
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Nadiine

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You carry a christian icon - what do you believe it to be?
I see this too, my previous post was wondering what gives with questions I got from atheists & skeptics for 9+ years, then see the same things here with people with Christian symbols.

Time always tells.
The other Universalism thread we were in, he popped in & was ranting about God's genocide on women & children...

People aren't stupid lol
 
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Nadiine

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Read about Deborah and Ja-el in the book of Judges. Their stories might change your mind. :)
:thumbsup:
It was GOD giving women rights and security by His laws too!
Without the laws God designed for their protection, the women would suffer more imo.

There are good Christian websites online that explain this old argument, I think the OP Google them & see what they say.
 
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dayhiker

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I don't think there is any Christian defense of rape.

I'm not sure this verse is refeing to rape actually. Absalom has sex with these wives of David and its not clear that they were oppsed to it happening. After all Absalom had sex with 10 of David's wives. I'd think they could have created quite a bit of resistance if that was what they wanted. This is a clear example of adultery tho.

dayhiker
 
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