Evolutionary Science is a fairytale

[atomweaver]

you can't go out and get any kind of job with it.

Well, it doesn't pay anywhere's near as well as having your own ministry, but it can pay a few bills, if you don't mind living modestly...

You cant treat a medical condition because you know the theory of evoultion.

Wrong. From, http://books.nap.edu/html/11876/SECbrochure.pdf

"Medicine’s Challenge in Countering Resistant Strains
of Harmful Bacteria​

In late 2002, several hundred people in China came down with a severe form of pneumonia
caused by an unknown infectious agent. Dubbed “severe acute respiratory syndrome,”
or SARS, the disease soon spread to Vietnam, Hong Kong, and Canada and led to hundreds
of deaths. In March 2003, a team of researchers at the University of California, San
Francisco, received samples of a virus isolated from the tissues of a SARS patient. Using a
new technology known as a DNA microarray, the researchers compared the genetic material
of the unknown virus with that of known viruses. Within 24 hours, they assigned the
virus to a particular family based on its evolutionary relationship to other viruses -- a result
confirmed by other researchers using different techniques. Immediately, work began on
a blood test to identify people with the disease (so they could be quarantined), on treatments
for the disease, and on vaccines to prevent infection with the virus.
​

Understanding the evolutionary origins of human pathogens will become increasingly
important as new threats to human health arise. For example, many people have suffered
from severe medical problems as bacteria have evolved resistance to antibiotics. When a
bacterium undergoes a genetic change that increases its ability to resist the effects of an
antibiotic, that bacterium can survive and produce more copies of itself while non-resistant
bacteria are being killed. Bacteria that cause tuberculosis, meningitis, staph infections
(sepsis), sexually transmitted diseases, and other illnesses have evolved resistance to an
increasing number of antibiotics and have become serious problems throughout the world.
Knowledge of how evolution leads to increased resistance will be critical in controlling
the spread of infectious diseases."​

This is a waste of taxpayer money.

Diagnosing, preventing, and treating infectious disease (and teaching the next generation how its done) is a waste of taxpayer money? K.

As a taxpayer I detest the way my money is being spent. Evolution has no place in our schools and does not deserve to have one dime spent to support it.

Do you even know what kind of money you're actually talking about?

Nobody really cares to learn it anyways. I talked to the kids about it and that what they tell me. They say later for you missing link and cro magnon.

So you're saying that children should direct the curriculum of schools, rather than adult elected representatives..? K.

We can macximize that dollar now on useful programs to prepare our young for college or something business related; marketing, sales. Something everyday and practical, not this theoretical nonsense-junk dont nobody care about.

I got a plan a forming on how to put an end to this tragic waste and it going to go down hopefully once and for all the way Golden Compass was shot down at the theaters last month.

The Golden Compass..? OK, I call Poe.

 

[PsychMJC]

Did you ever think that there might be people out there who have not given their lives to forums who may not know all the ins and outs and the vernacular of how they are run. You didn't need to be rude. You could have just explained it nicely.

Ok, no life=/=given their lives... fine
That means what then exactly? I love how you talk of not being rude and then throw that little jab in there when you could have just as easily said...

"There are people out there who aren't familiar with all the forum terms, and it would have been much more polite to just point out the error and correct them."

Of course, I am not reporting anyone, why would I?

 

[Inan3]

I'd say overturning a couple centuries of solid steady scientific work by countless individuals would be tsunami-like.

The thing is..just because they learned a word or two did not actually overturn a couple of centuries of solid steady scientific work now did it? It's not worth getting all bent out of shape about.

But don't be surprised when someone points out, quite brusquely, errors. While your "correlation" discussion wasn't an "error", many times creationists post errors and scientists are often hard-nosed on things like this.

The constant posts from YEC's about the Second Law of Thermodynamics is a good example. It is posted with poor understanding and when the scientists repeatedly correct the poster, it finally gets frustrating enough to bring out the big guns.

I guess that's the difference between people. Some don't think it's necessary to get out the "big guns" even though, others may not think they even have "big guns" to bring out. Sometimes it's a choice not to, rather than not being able to.

Not at all. What I fail to understand is how creationists can repeatedly come to the table, ignorance proudly on display, be corrected over and over and over again, and fail to ever take any new information away from the discussion.

But more importantly, something we all learn in science is that you will make mistakes and not every time will you land on soft-fluffy pillows.

Everyone of us who've gone on for advanced degrees have stood in front of senior faculty and put our foots firmly in our mouths and many many times we've had the faculty laugh at us, or literally rip us a new one.

As I've said before, it's a fire you have to be forged in. You may have put yourself through other, equally difficult situations, but when it comes to science many creationists don't understand that for us, we have been forged in this particular fire. We've made the same rookie mistakes you all are actively making.

And sadly we are probably treating you as we were treated, but it bears fruit if you bother to learn from the experience.

Unfortunately in a debate forum creationists can run away to their secret hiding places to lick their wounds instead of staying with the fire.

My wife's advisor in grad school was a prime-grade A jerk. He was a monster to her and all his grad students. I took a few of his classes and he was a jerk in the classes.

The thing was, he was brilliant. He was one of the smartest scientists I've met. In his classes if you didn't know your stuff when you went into class you rued that day. You were eviscerated and made fun of. The thing you learned was not to run away, but to come to class the next day prepared for the fight.

I learned more in some of his classes than I had in many many other classes.

I don't like the guy but I respect the guy. I realized then that I have to have the discipline imposed on me.

Expect when arguing science that a scientist is going to push back and push back hard.

Maybe not all of them, but you will get more than fluffy bunnies thrown at you in a science debate

Another difference, Did you ever hear the saying, What you do speaks so loud I can't hear what you are saying?

I realize that you can still learn the information you need to in spite of the individuals presentation but a good teacher will be able to do both...present the material and do it in a manner that is conducive to learning. A real teacher will expect his students to learn and at the same time doing all they can to help those trying to learn it. From what you are saying this professor was more of a hindrance to learning than a help. It was the students who deserve the respect not this man. He may have been intelligent but as you say he was still a jerk. I would not give him my respect for that reason.
He did not earn it.

I would also, like to say that this is not a science class and no one is going for their degree here. There is no reason that people cannot be civil to each other.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I guess that's the difference between people. Some don't think it's necessary to get out the "big guns" even though, others may not think they even have "big guns" to bring out. Sometimes it's a choice not to, rather than not being able to.

Creationists are like everyone else. When the chips are down, when their mewling puking babies are sick, or when they fill up the car's gastank, what you want, what we all want, are hard-nosed scientists.

People who've been through the ringer and who don't follow "gut feelings" but really hard good science.

That's part of the Socratic Method (classically) and it makes for good solid professionals.

You come on here to debate with a scientist, expect that you won't be given "free reign" to express whatever you think
might be nice if it were true.

Another difference, Did you ever hear the saying, What you do speaks so loud I can't hear what you are saying?

I realize that you can still learn the information you need to in spite of the individuals presentation but a good teacher will be able to do both.

I think I've said this before, but I don't teach this way in the real world. And probably unlike you, I actually have taught a number of science classes in both geology and chemistry.

I debate here. But if I ever met a student who was so obtusely resistant to learning as many Creationists on this forum are, I'd be inclined to bring out the big guns after a while.

I don't need to teach on here, but I have spent many hours presenting actual facts.

But then I come on a few days later and I see yet more Creationists claiming evolution is a "lie", or "science doesn't know anything", or worse yet: PRATTS.

So teaching is a two way street. I've done it. I don't know what your experience is, so I can't speak for you, but I can tell you, teachers are human and after a while being told by those who know less than we do that we are lying or we are plain out wrong, again, you can expect that you will get strong rebuttals.

..present the material and do it in a manner that is conducive to learning.

I used to do that on this board, until I met fine folks like Dad or AV1611VET who simply refuse to learn. I read your material and I frankly don't know if I see you trying much to grasp it. But I could be wrong.

So, in a sense, since a teacher cannot FORCE you to learn, why should I bother with teaching you anything?

But, that being said, I think if you look over on the thread "The Moon was Created" you'll see I've posted a TON of information. Much of it I'm still trying to learn myself. If you look at my STRATIGRAPHIC CORRELATION thread you'll see similar information.

If you honestly look back through many of my posts you'll see that when possible I support my claims with external references and I almost always avoid "Talkorigins" or some other "summary evolution page" but go for as much primary unbiased information as I can.

I'll be the first to admit I do get snarky and nasty. But if you are honest with yourself you'll see that being a professional scientist who dedicated 12 years to college, followed by another 5 working for sub-industry wages in postdocs, and then several years in industrial R&D that I might get a wee bit peeved to be told byscientific illiterates that I am simply "wrong" or "lying".

A real teacher will expect his students to learn and at the same time doing all they can to help those trying to learn it.

OK, let's get this out here. What is your teaching CV? I've taught at 4 state universities and 1 community college. I've taught a number of classes in geology, mineralogy lab, and intro chemistry.

Lay it out for me so I'll know that you know what a teacher does. And I don't have to feel like I'm being preached at yet again by someone who may not know as much about this field as I do.

You may be a teacher from waaay back. I don't know. But you'll understand if I sting from being told by creationists that scientists are liars or mistaken, so I just don't want to repeat that experience here.

From what you are saying this professor was more of a hindrance to learning than a help.

Strangely enough, that is exactly the opposite of what I said. For me I learned more from his classes because I had to! He was brutal, but I had to make it through that fire. I still remember much of what he taught me, as opposed to some of the softball classes I had in other areas.
(And perhaps it was a bit "hyperbolic" of me to lable him a "monster", but he was a royal pain. But a brilliant royal pain. That alone deserved respect).

I would also, like to say that this is not a science class and no one is going for their degree here. There is no reason that people cannot be civil to each other.

Then tell your creationist buddies to:

1. Stop calling us liars or telling us we are mistaken without support. (I for one don't think Creationists are lying about their beliefs, I think they are mistaken, and I can at least support my contentions).

2. Acting as if science is just a hobby. For many of us it is life. It requires discipline and effort. You can express your opinion all you like, but remember, many of us have spent as much time just getting our college degrees in these fields as you spent in first grade through high school.

Civil? Sure. But that's a two way street and it requires actually reading and paying attention to what the other says.

 

[Morcova]

That's where their faith kicks in!

As I pointed out, if you put the same standards to your religion he wants to put to science you and he both would be atheists.

 

[Wyzaard]

1. Stop calling us liars or telling us we are mistaken without support. (I for one don't think Creationists are lying about their beliefs, I think they are mistaken, and I can at least support my contentions).

2. Acting as if science is just a hobby. For many of us it is life. It requires discipline and effort. You can express your opinion all you like, but remember, many of us have spent as much time just getting our college degrees in these fields as you spent in first grade through high school.

Clap clap clap!

I get so tired of repeating myself in such forums... why can't people just read the facts we present and then follow up?

 

[Wyzaard]

Yes, just about everyone on this forum. I'd be surprised if some hadn't.

Your impressions?

 

[tanzanos]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeleschristian
Tanzanos. I dont know you. Why you butting in for? If you got something you want to say PM me.

this what's known as trolling isnt it? Because if it is I have a right to report this. I recall you were all saying you were here for a debate.


You don't have to report him. I already did! Just so you all know my reason was that it was "Insulting and offensive".




Thank you for reporting me.

Happy?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Did you ever think that there might be people out there who have not given their lives to forums who may not know all the ins and outs and the vernacular of how they are run.

Of course. Personally, if I mistook trolling for flamming, I would appreciate people highlighting my error, rather than leave me to make the same mistake.

You didn't need to be rude. You could have just explained it nicely.

Review the thread. If someone isn't civil to me, then I see no reason why I should continue being civil to them.

 

[Inan3]

Your impressions?

Somethings I agree with some I disagree with. Just to give you a hint. I believe that God created the Heavens and the Earth just as the Bible says He did.

 

[Inan3]

Thank you for reporting me.

Happy?

Yes, I'm happy but my happiness is not based on my reporting you. I'm reported all the time. Just keeps us sharp.

 

[Inan3]

Clap clap clap!

I get so tired of repeating myself in such forums... why can't people just read the facts we present and then follow up?

Probably because we are not convinced they are facts.

 

[TheOutsider]

Probably because we are not convinced they are facts.

Ok, then show us why then aren't facts. Let's see your evidence. I'd love to see Creationism put all of it's cards on the table for once.

 

[Wyzaard]

Probably because we are not convinced they are facts.

Peruse for facts:

www.talkorigins.org

And then consider how unnecessary a literalist reading of Genesis is to your faith; evolution, the big bang... all naturalistic 'how did that happen' models, not spiritual ones. If the Catholic church of all institutions has no problem with evolution, why are so many other christians so resistant?

 

[Inan3]

Creationists are like everyone else. When the chips are down, when their mewling puking babies are sick, or when they fill up the car's gastank, what you want, what we all want, are hard-nosed scientists.

I don't know about the gastank but when it came to my children being sick, I prayed and they were healed. As for myself, I don't even have a regular doctor. I'm not on any medications because I trust the Lord rather than drugs to help me. I know there are those who need the medications out there so I'm not knocking the use of them BUT if it was me, before I'd put any of that stuff into my body, I'd pray because quite frankly, I've seen too many screw ups to trust in doctors and drugs. I only worship one God. Scientists and doctors sometimes THINK they are gods but I don't see them that way at all. Sorry if this offends, I don't mean it to, that's just how I see things.

I do think you have shared a lot of good information and probably with the intent to help but this is not a class room and no one is under any obligation to receive all that you or anyone else gives out and that goes both ways. I can understand your frustration and irritation but that also, goes both ways.

As for my credentials, I will never be sharing those here on this forum. I'm not going to get into a p--ing contest with anyone. That's not what I am all about. I'd probably lose anyway. If I am not believed there's nothing I can do about that and giving my credentials will not change anyone's mind one way or another.

I think you have a good heart, TMT, and I'm sorry if I have caused you distress by not always believing you. It's not really you, though. It's just that I believe God and anything contrary to Him, I choose not to believe. There may be a link to all this that will come one day but until then, as far as I am concerned, if it disagrees with God and His word, I'm just going to put it on the shelf. Nothing personal, though I know it's your life, but no offense is intended.

 

[Inan3]

Peruse for facts:

www.talkorigins.org

And then consider how unnecessary a literalist reading of Genesis is to your faith; evolution, the big bang... all naturalistic 'how did that happen' models, not spiritual ones. If the Catholic church of all institutions has no problem with evolution, why are so many other christians so resistant?

Thank you for your suggestion but just so you know there have been many, many here who have given the same advise over and over again. What the Catholic church does makes no difference to me. I was brought up a Catholic but when I found out the whole truth I left the Catholic church, so you see by that statement that I don't always agree with the Catholic church. Personally, I don't think the Catholic church agrees with a lot of the Bible, that's why I don't agree with the Catholic church or anyone else who doesn't believe the Bible. I believe the Bible is the Word of God and what it says is how it happened. I think science needs to come into agreement with the Word of God not the other way around. I know God is real and this forum or talkorigins or the Catholic church or whatever is not going to change my mind. But again thanks, because I think your intention is to help.

 

[Inan3]

Ok, then show us why then aren't facts. Let's see your evidence. I'd love to see Creationism put all of it's cards on the table for once.

You know it's never going to happen the way you want, TO.

 

[MoonLancer]

You know it's never going to happen the way you want, TO.

or just happen....

 

[ReverendDG]

You know it's never going to happen the way you want, TO.

well yeah because you have no facts, or you would present them to be reviewed
its far easier to stick your fingers in your ears and say "science is not true, lalalalala"

 

[ReverendDG]

or just happen....

when evolution makes pigs that fly.. which if you know anything about evolution means never