Some Planned Parenthood Clinics Closing Due to State Budget Changes

[BlackAndy]

*yawn*

That's bs.

Well, that is a well thought rebuttal.

 

[Followers4christ]

A tiny clump of cells is equivalent to a toddler in your eyes, is that what you're saying?

By the way I noticed you claim to be a christian by your faith icon.So lets see what the bible says on the subject.

Despite the fact that the word abortion does not appear in the Bible, there remains a very clear and straightforward path upon which we can determine God's view of abortion. Since the Bible is explicit in its condemnation of murder, if we can find evidence that the Bible views human life before birth to be just as valuable as human life after birth, then abortion is biblically condemned under the broader banner of murder.

This is, in fact, just what we find. There are a number of examples where Scripture uses the exact same words to describe babies before birth and babies after birth. In Genesis 25:22 we read, "The children struggled together within her," speaking of the twins in Rebekah's womb. The word children is the ordinary word used for children (or sons) outside the womb. Luke 1:41 tells us that "when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb". This is the same word for babe (brephos) that is used in Luke 2:12 and 16 for the baby Jesus and in Luke 18:15 for infants. Even more significant than the word usage is the description of what this unborn child did. John the Baptist, still in the womb, leapt for joy in recognition of the presence of Christ, who was also still in the womb. This is an in-utero prophecy of the arrival of Christ, and that is an astounding reality.

There is also testimony in the Bible of biblical authors describing themselves in the womb in very personal terms. In Psalm 51:5, David refers to himself in the womb as "I" and "me". It was David in the womb of his mother, it wasn't an it or a thing. It wasn't a "pre-David". Isaiah speaks the same way in Isaiah 49:1. He says, "The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me." God's call upon Isaiah came before he was born. When the prophet was in the womb of his mother, God called him. Jeremiah 1:5 says, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." Before Jeremiah was even formed, God knew him. His consecration came before birth, not after. Luke 1:15 states that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit "while yet in his mother's womb". There is no biblical evidence of "non-persons" being filled with the Holy Spirit, and John the Baptist was, before he was born. Finally in Galatians 1:15, Paul says that God "set [him] apart even from [his] mother's womb". God's calling comes before birth, and that is of no small significance in the abortion debate.

Another insight into the Bible's view of unborn life comes through the various passages like Psalm 139:13 that speak of God's "unique, person-forming work" in the womb. In Job 31:13-15, Job argues that it is God's work in the womb that compels him to not mistreat his servant. "Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb?" Even though Job was born to a free-woman and his servant was born to a bond-woman, they were both formed by God in the womb and this becomes the basis of their mutual dignity and worth. Abortion destroys something that God is actively creating, and as Job 1:21 tells us, God alone has the right to give and take life.

Pastor John Piper says it this way in a January 1997 sermon "Abortion is evil because what is happening in the womb is the unique person-forming work of God, and therefore abortion is an assault on the Creator-rights of the King of the Universe to bring eternal persons into existence." In a sermon delivered the following year he goes on to say, "to attack the human being in the womb and kill him or her is to assault God. God is making the child. God is weaving a unique image of his divine glory with the purpose of imaging forth that glory in the world. Killing the child is an attack on God's glory and is treason against the Ruler of the universe."

The unborn are not regarded impersonally in the Bible. They are regarded as people, they are regarded with honor, and any honest reading of the Bible should make it abundantly clear what God's view of abortion is.Thank you for reading and may God bless you all.

 

[flicka]

It's weird when people start out saying "lets see what the bible says on the subject" instead of just THINKING about it. The bible requires translation, interpretation, the ability to read between the lines and/or put things into perspective. And even then nobody can agree. And christans exist seperate from the bible, it's not something required or to be worshipped. I think everyone can agree that a clump of cells is not equivalent to a toddler.

 

[BlackAndy]

It's weird when people start out saying "lets see what the bible says on the subject" instead of just THINKING about it. The bible requires translation, interpretation, the ability to read between the lines and/or put things into perspective. And even then nobody can agree. And christans exist seperate from the bible, it's not something required or to be worshipped. I think everyone can agree that a clump of cells is not equivalent to a toddler.

I think everyone can agree that if you keep your scalpel off those cells a toddle they will be... I mean, I don't see anyone at an abortion clinic lamenting that in 9 months they may have a new born clump of cells. It is a child they are afraid to bear. It is a child they want to destroy.

 

[PassionFruit]

Well, that is a well thought rebuttal.

I would argue back, but what for? Instead of presenting me with shock and gore of aborted fetuses I would rather see actual evidence. Not pictures of chopped up fetuses, thank you.

 

[BlackAndy]

I would argue back, but what for? Instead of presenting me with shock and gore of aborted fetuses I would rather see actual evidence. Not pictures of chopped up fetuses, thank you.

Spoken like someone with nothing left to say...

And how do those photographs not provide you with the evidence you need for what happens at PP?

Because then you'd have to admit that you are a proponent for such wickedness, that's why...
The photographic evidence is pretty damning.

 

[PassionFruit]

Spoken like someone with nothing left to say...

Well here's what I have to say.

If you don't like abortion, promote measures that would prevent women from having to make the decision to have an abortion in the first place. Other than that, deal with the fact that abortion is a reality whether you like it or not. And I'm not talking about "just don't have premarital sex" nonsense, I mean real solutions. Like better sex education, equal access to family planning services, etc.

 

[BlackAndy]

Well here's what I have to say.

If you don't like abortion, promote measures that would prevent women from having to make the decision to have an abortion in the first place. Other than that, deal with the fact that abortion is a reality whether you like it or not. And I'm not talking about "just don't have premarital sex" nonsense, I mean real solutions. Like better sex education, equal access to family planning services, etc.

Birth control is an option. Adoption is an option. Being a parent is an option.
So why abort, other than purely selfish reasons?

...and YES, keeping your legs crossed until you are ready to have a child is an option.

And when I say option- read that CHOICE. Thats a word you folks like to throw around.

 

[PassionFruit]

Birth control is an option. Adoption is an option. Being a parent is an option.
So why abort, other than purely selfish reasons?

...and YES, keeping your legs crossed until you are ready to have a child is an option.

And when I say option- read that CHOICE. Thats a word you folks like to throw around.

Abortion is another option. Deal with it.

 

[Harpuia]

Here is some photographic evidence that abortion is murder of a child not some tiny clump of cells.God Bless

*Warning pictures are graphic*

http://www.abort73.com/HTML/I-A-4-photos22.html

http://www.abortiontruth.com/pictures.html

http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/

Eh.. at least you gave an advance warning. I'll pass.

Late term abortions are a small portion of all the # of abortions, and most pro-choice supporters do believe late term abortions are unnecessary, and not many I know of think they should be allowed.

 

[Sphere]

Of course appealing to emotion demonstrates the quality of their argument.

 

[Ramona]

I have mixed feelings about this.

Whilst I'm against abortion, I feel like there needs to be a safe place where people can go for sex education, birth control, condoms, STD tests, and the like. I used to volunteer at a place like Planned Parenthood about a year ago (I mostly did peer counseling, there were no abortions performed), and I still visit one on occasion for their Sexual Assault Survivors' group. As was mentioned earlier, most PP centers don't do abortions, but if they're closing, I really hope that there will be some grassroots organizations where people can go to take care of their birth control/counseling/educational needs.

 

[BlackAndy]

Eh.. at least you gave an advance warning. I'll pass.

Late term abortions are a small portion of all the # of abortions, and most pro-choice supporters do believe late term abortions are unnecessary, and not many I know of think they should be allowed.

Abortion is abortion.

 

[Ramona]

I'd call a woman dying trying to murder her unborn child poetic justice...

why do you put a higher value on her life than that of the innocent child she is killing? Talk about twisted logic.

I guess it's just fundynuts like me who see the value of all life. Fundynuts like me can't turn a blind eye to millions of children being butchered so that women in this country have the "choice" to live loosely.

But not the life of the would-be mother?

I very much think abortion is murder and should be illegal, just not right away. To just ban it overnight would only make way for back-alley abortions, which will result in dead babies and dead mothers. Why should life begin at conception if its sanctity ends at birth?

 

[BlackAndy]

Of course appealing to emotion demonstrates the quality of their argument.

And attacking the messenger for lack of your own ability to form an argument demonstrates the quality of yours.

 

[BlackAndy]

But not the life of the would-be mother?

I very much think abortion is murder and should be illegal, just not right away. To just ban it overnight would only make way for back-alley abortions, which will result in dead babies and dead mothers. Why should life begin at conception if it's sanctity ends at birth?

Abortionists should be treated as murderers. Maybe then people wont be so quick to kill a child for a buck.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Closed for staff review​

 

[Angel4Truth]

Update : After a review by staff it has been determined that the thread will remain closed due to excessive in thread violations.

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