Why did God create Adam?

[Ormly]

What did God have in mind when creating humankind?

 

[CShephard53]

What did God have in mind when creating humankind?

Relationships. Found in Jesus' summary of the law, and in Genesis 1-3

 

[Ormly]

Relationships. Found in Jesus' summary of the law, and in Genesis 1-3

Ok. A little simplistic, but its a beginning.

Can we keep in mind when thinking this out that had Adam not trangressed there would have been no need for redemption.

??

Having gotten that part out of the way, what kind of a relationship do you believe God was after with Adam [mankind] and how do you suppose it was to be arrived at to the satisfaction of God?

 

[CShephard53]

Ok. A little simplistic, but its a beginning.

Can we keep in mind when thinking this out that had Adam not trangressed there would have been no need for redemption.

??

Having gotten that part out of the way, what kind of a relationship do you believe God was after with Adam [mankind] and how do you suppose it was to be arrived at to the satisfaction of God?

Keep in mind, God took a rib from Adam so he could have a relationship with another human, and the two will become one flesh. Before the fall.

What kind of relationship? Deep and intimate. No secrets, complete openness, trust, and love. How was it to be arrived at? That would be different for each person.

 

[Ormly]

Keep in mind, God took a rib from Adam so he could have a relationship with another human, and the two will become one flesh. Before the fall.

What kind of relationship? Deep and intimate. No secrets, complete openness, trust, and love. How was it to be arrived at? That would be different for each person.

Since we know what Jesus became, i.e., the first Divine-Human and, as I stated, if Adam had not transgressed there would have been no need for redemption, ergo, Jesus would never have been born, ergo, He would not have been the first Divine-Human, can you still stick with your notion of Adam being created to simply have a "deep and intimate" relationship with God? Certainly God had something of the same intention with Adam as later with Jesus, don't you think? In other words: Jesus succeeded where Adam failed.

 

[CShephard53]

Since we know what Jesus became, i.e., the first Divine-Human and, as I stated, if Adam had not transgressed there would have been no need for redemption, ergo, Jesus would never have been born, ergo, He would not have been the first Divine-Human, can you still stick with your notion of Adam being created to simply have a "deep and intimate" relationship with God? Certainly God had something of the same intention with Adam as later with Jesus, don't you think? In other words: Jesus succeeded where Adam failed.

Not following your 'logic' here.

 

[IamAdopted]

Adam was created for the Glory of God

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Since we know what Jesus became, i.e., the first Divine-Human and, as I stated, if Adam had not transgressed there would have been no need for redemption, ergo, Jesus would never have been born, ergo, He would not have been the first Divine-Human, can you still stick with your notion of Adam being created to simply have a "deep and intimate" relationship with God? Certainly God had something of the same intention with Adam as later with Jesus, don't you think? In other words: Jesus succeeded where Adam failed.

If you're saying that Adam was created to be in perfect relationship with God, and failed, where Christ did not fail, then I agree with that.

But God did create humankind to be in perfect relationship with each other and with Himself, as the Holy Trinity is in relationship with Themselves. In other words - in perfect love.

And God the Son would still have taken on humanity and become the God-Man even if we had not fallen. He would have united humanity to Himself.

Mary

 

[Ormly]

If you're saying that Adam was created to be in perfect relationship with God, and failed, where Christ did not fail, then I agree with that.

But God did create humankind to be in perfect relationship with each other and with Himself, as the Holy Trinity is in relationship with Themselves. In other words - in perfect love.

And God the Son would still have taken on humanity and become the God-Man even if we had not fallen. He would have united humanity to Himself.

Mary

Very good, Mary. However, Christ was never a Son but the very expression of the heart of God who spoke the worlds into existance, co-equal with Him, second personality of the God-head which Jesus never was until He spoke those words, "It is Finished". Had Adam not transgressed, the privilege of the God-head indwelling him would have fallen instead to him as the new Divine-Human instead of Jesus. It would not have been otherwise needed to be altered by God in His plan/intention by ushering in Jesus to replace Adam.. There would have been no need for redemption. Ergo, Jesus would never have been born.
I know you may believe that violates a whole bunch orthodoxy but try to think it through before consigning me to the pit.......

 

[ShieldOFaith]

God tells us exactly why we were created, in His Word.

Please read and understand:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. --Revelation 4

Simple and to the point.

SOLI DEO GLORIA.
[/FONT]

 

[Ormly]

God tells us exactly why we were created, in His Word.

Please read and understand:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. --Revelation 4[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Simple and to the point.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]SOLI DEO GLORIA.[/FONT]

Too simple since the whole world groans, waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. What could it possibily mean that we are to be a son of God ... and how is it accomplished in us?

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Very good, Mary. However, Christ was never a Son but the very expression of the heart of God who spoke the worlds into existance, co-equal with Him, second personality of the God-head which Jesus never was until He spoke those words, "It is Finished". Had Adam not transgressed, the privilege of the God-head indwelling him would have fallen instead to him as the new Divine-Human instead of Jesus. It would not have been otherwise needed to be altered by God in His plan/intention by ushering in Jesus to replace Adam.. There would have been no need for redemption. Ergo, Jesus would never have been born.
I know you may believe that violates a whole bunch orthodoxy but try to think it through before consigning me to the pit.......

Well, I won't consign you to the pit , but I do disagree with some of that.

Adam could never have become the Divine-Human (and neither can we) in the *same* way as Christ. Christ is True God of True God. Only God could fully unite the Divine with the Human. We can never be God in His Essence. God intends us to become *like* Him through His Energies (Grace, if you like) in what we call Theosis. And in that, we become Fully Human. But we can never become Fully God, as Christ is.

Mary

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Too simple since the whole world groans, waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. What could it possibily mean that we are to be a son of God ... and how is it accomplished in us?

I believe my post above answers this, also.

Mary

 

[Ormly]

Well, I won't consign you to the pit , but I do disagree with some of that.

Adam could never have become the Divine-Human (and neither can we) in the *same* way as Christ. Christ is True God of True God. Only God could fully unite the Divine with the Human. We can never be God in His Essence. God intends us to become *like* Him through His Energies (Grace, if you like) in what we call Theosis. And in that, we become Fully Human. But we can never become Fully God, as Christ is.

Mary

As a human, was Jesus fully God before the Cross?

Becareful here when answering. This is where it can be triicky since His life on earth was meant for something beyond our redemption.
I full well know that in reality; the foreknowedge of God from the beginning of eternity past, He was. However, He was to be proven; He had to be tested as a human that in actuality of His Life, the reality of His Son-ship, Heir-ship and Throne-ship would be- must be summed up and this not simply for us; our salvation, but also for the observing host in the Heavenlies. They are all watching this play out for which, at this time the full ramifications of it all, concerning them, we aren't privy to.

Father's purpose is to populate His Realm with Human-Divinity; man to be as He is, Jesus being the "first of first fruits" in this. That was the Victory He accomplished, not just for us "begotten again" brothers, or for Himself who is now the Head of His "begotten again" brothers but for the Father who desires to have a vast Family of Sons, "begotten again" by the Blood of Jesus. It is for Father, for Himself, and for us. In this is the summation of the Union of John 17, Jesus prays for.

This privilege of becoming the first of first fruits was first given to Adam. He would have become had he not failed in the "Self-renunciation" class of '01.. No rdemption would have been necessary had he passed the test. At some point in time he would have participated in the transfiguration graduation ceremony whereby the Christ of Glory would have entered in his human flesh unto what Jesus later became in His flesh...The first Divine-Human to share/participate in Throneship. The form of the preincarnate Christ of Glory that was intended for the body of Adam, is now in Jesus, an incarnate body of flesh and bone which makes Him now, in actuality, "Christ Jesus"..

There is a difference between Adam and Jesus inasmuch as created Adam had only one [not divine] nature from which he functioned. Jesus had two He was born with. Adam was never anointed to function. Jesus was, by the power of the Holy Ghost. The devil wanted to destroy the Divine Nature of the man Jesus. The only way he could do it was by getting the "Self" of Jesus, His human nature, to sin. Jesus, son of man, was given the task of protecting the Christ of God within Him. We have the record of the account of His wilderness experience that speaks of the solicitations of the enemy. The way Jesus succeeded is for us who are born again [begotten again of the Father], to learn. It is called the "Way of the Cross". If we love the Father with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength as Jesus did, we will succeed because we will posess the same strengths He posessed, otherwise we will "fall short of the glory of God".. In that day, we will find we are something less than what Father intended us to be.

 

[CShephard53]

Very good, Mary. However, Christ was never a Son but the very expression of the heart of God who spoke the worlds into existance, co-equal with Him, second personality of the God-head which Jesus never was until He spoke those words, "It is Finished". Had Adam not transgressed, the privilege of the God-head indwelling him would have fallen instead to him as the new Divine-Human instead of Jesus. It would not have been otherwise needed to be altered by God in His plan/intention by ushering in Jesus to replace Adam.. There would have been no need for redemption. Ergo, Jesus would never have been born.
I know you may believe that violates a whole bunch orthodoxy but try to think it through before consigning me to the pit.......

Oh, okay, that makes sense.

 

[CShephard53]

As a human, was Jesus fully God before the Cross?

Becareful here when answering. This is where it can be triicky since His life on earth was meant for something beyond our redemption.
I full well know that in reality; the foreknowedge of God from the beginning of eternity past, He was. However, He was to be proven; He had to be tested as a human that in actuality of His Life, the reality of His Son-ship, Heir-ship and Throne-ship would be- must be summed up and this not simply for us; our salvation, but also for the observing host in the Heavenlies. They are all watching this play out for which, at this time the full ramifications of it all, concerning them, we aren't privy to.

Father's purpose is to populate His Realm with Human-Divinity; man to be as He is, Jesus being the "first of first fruits" in this. That was the Victory He accomplished, not just for us "begotten again" brothers, or for Himself who is now the Head of His "begotten again" brothers but for the Father who desires to have a vast Family of Sons, "begotten again" by the Blood of Jesus. It is for Father, for Himself, and for us. In this is the summation of the Union of John 17, Jesus prays for.

This privilege of becoming the first of first fruits was first given to Adam. He would have become had he not failed in the "Self-renunciation" class of '01.. No rdemption would have been necessary had he passed the test. At some point in time he would have participated in the transfiguration graduation ceremony whereby the Christ of Glory would have entered in his human flesh unto what Jesus later became in His flesh...The first Divine-Human to share/participate in Throneship. The form of the preincarnate Christ of Glory that was intended for the body of Adam, is now in Jesus, an incarnate body of flesh and bone which makes Him now, in actuality, "Christ Jesus"..

There is a difference between Adam and Jesus inasmuch as created Adam had only one [not divine] nature from which he functioned. Jesus had two He was born with. Adam was never anointed to function. Jesus was, by the power of the Holy Ghost. The devil wanted to destroy the Divine Nature of the man Jesus. The only way he could do it was by getting the "Self" of Jesus, His human nature, to sin. Jesus, son of man, was given the task of protecting the Christ of God within Him. We have the record of the account of His wilderness experience that speaks of the solicitations of the enemy. The way Jesus succeeded is for us who are born again [begotten again of the Father], to learn. It is called the "Way of the Cross". If we love the Father with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength as Jesus did, we will succeed because we will posess the same strengths He posessed, otherwise we will "fall short of the glory of God".. In that day, we will find we are something less than what Father intended us to be.

I'd say yeah, He was. John 10:30, for starters. And where John says: "And I saw the Spirit of God descend like a dove..."

 

[Ormly]

I'd say yeah, He was. John 10:30, for starters. And where John says: "And I saw the Spirit of God descend like a dove..."

But then so are you if indeed the Spirit that dwelled in Him, dwells in you....John 17.

Get my drift in this?..............

 

[JTLauder]

The question becomes even more complex.

Did God know beforehand that Adam was going to sin? Did God plan out sending Jesus Christ the Son to be humanity's redemption before Adam was even created?

If God is omniscient--all knowing--one would assume God knew about all that was going to happen and planned it all out in the beginning.

If so, the question becomes even more profound. If God KNEW man was going to fall and planned out a salvation plan beforehand, why would God bother to go ahead with the plan and create Adam?

 

[Ormly]

The question becomes even more complex.

Not complex at all if we can understand the fraility of man when placed up against the powers of darkness.

Did God know beforehand that Adam was going to sin? Did God plan out sending Jesus Christ the Son to be humanity's redemption before Adam was even created?

Indeed.

If God is omniscient--all knowing--one would assume God knew about all that was going to happen and planned it all out in the beginning.

Indeed He did know and He did plan it all out beforehand. That is why the Bible says so much about being from before the foundation of the world God knew and He chose. Jesus was always in His Mind but Adam had to be given his chance to be the Son Jesus became.

If so, the question becomes even more profound. If God KNEW man was going to fall and planned out a salvation plan beforehand, why would God bother to go ahead with the plan and create Adam?

Several reasons: Procreation was the only way God, who wanted a vast family of sons, could have them. If Adam fell, one redeemer would only be necessary for all his offspring.... unlike the Angels who were individually created.

Secondly, as the heavenly host looked on, innocent human man, without outside help/strengths, of necessity had to be proven-tested as to his allegiance to the one who created him. God gave Adam authority over everything except himself. God wanted Adam's "self" to be renounced and submitted to Him. Had he done this Adam would have advanced towards divine son-ship as the Father intended for him. Christ would have entered him to be the first of many sons unto the Father. http://foru.ms/t6301696-concerning-adam-and-jesus.html

http://foru.ms/t6286414-why-did-god-create-adam.html http://foru.ms/t6286414-why-did-god-create-adam.html

 

[jamiel]

God created Adam (and through him all humans) to love Him, for His glory, and for His pleasure. I think that about covers it.

Of course, it's not like we don't get any benefit from being created . . . Despite all the hardships of life I'm glad to be here and live for my God, love Him back (which I enjoy very much doing), and in the future be with Him forever.

Did God know beforehand that Adam was going to sin?

Did God plan out sending Jesus Christ the Son to be humanity's redemption before Adam was even created?

If God is omniscient--all knowing--one would assume God knew about all that was going to happen and planned it all out in the beginning.

If so, the question becomes even more profound. If God KNEW man was going to fall and planned out a salvation plan beforehand, why would God bother to go ahead with the plan and create Adam?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

It's remarkable! God knew all that, and still went ahead, planning it. I'm in awe. I call that real LOVE.

Like no other.

He must want us to please Him as His loving glory. I'm thinking He thought (and still thinks) the eventual, final, end result on Judgment Day would make it all worth it.



God Bless.