How should we address the attacks from evolutionists?

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I doubt I'm the only one sick of the day in and day out attacks and blatant breaking of forum rooms in here. What action do you think we should take? I feel like I keep reporting the same group of people. What is the exact policy on this? Can we get their accounts banned if they keep breaking the same rule over and over? I have a very busy life and I don't have time to deal with people that don't respect people and keep breaking the rules.

 

[Melethiel]

Report them. If we have a steady pattern of rule breaking, we can do a forum-specific ban.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Report them. If we have a steady pattern of rule breaking, we can do a forum-specific ban.

OK, thanks for your prompt response with the reporting. I have been dealing with a lot of drama in the different forums I normally go to lately and I think it is starting to get to me. So I apologize if I come off as being mean spirited in any matter.

 

[busterdog]

OK, thanks for your prompt response with the reporting. I have been dealing with a lot of drama in the different forums I normally go to lately and I think it is starting to get to me. So I apologize if I come off as being mean spirited in any matter.

I am your Team Black, brother!

I have been a bit mean, without apology myself. Sarcasm is against the rules, technically. But, I think you have been pretty even-tempered in the above.

But, yes, I also get sick of it. I would think a number of these folks would tone it down, especially over hear with the odd caution or two. I don't think its being addressed as such and who is going to listen a caution from a creationist? Others know the rule and delight in breaking it, since I guess they think we deserve it. Unfortunately, this is what I mostly associate with this foru.ms board.

 

[IFG1P315]

This is a very good, and very important question.

What I would first say is whatever they do . . . don't. Firstly because God does not want us to do so. 1 Peter 3:15 says, "And be ready always to defend to every one who is asking of you an account concerning the hope that is in you, with gentleness and respect;"
Secondly, is because of why God wants us to be gentle and respectful. If we make add hominem attacks then we are not addressing the issues at hand. We are simply alienating the people that we encounter. And even if we are making good points, if we are being rude about it, no one will listen. If we stick to discussing the issues, and are informed and polite, then at the very least others who read what is written will be more inclined to listen to what we are saying rather than how we are saying it.

Second, as to whether or not you should report them. I would say no. While they may be violating the rules, if they get kicked off they lose a place where they can potentially encounter God's truth, and they will be given a bad impression of how Christians engage non-Christians.

So I say, pray, be courteous, and focus on what matters. And know your stuff.

 

[metherion]

In all seriousness, I would like you guys to know that I'm on your side in this, and the only reason that I don't come in here and tell off some of the TEs who try and debate here is that I don't want to make it worse by adding pointless and inflammatory posts to an already rule-breaking discussion.

On a similar note. Melethiel, could I report fellow TEs in here who do that? Or are only the creationists allowed to report people here? Cause I'd be glad to help out here if it all possible. I enjoyed talking with FallingWaters a little while ago, and I'd prefer not to get completely booted out by the actions of some of my fellows.

Metherion

 

[Tinker Grey]

On a note similar to metherion's, I hope that it is recognized that at least some of us TEs are obeying the rules (at least trying to).

 

[Melethiel]

In all seriousness, I would like you guys to know that I'm on your side in this, and the only reason that I don't come in here and tell off some of the TEs who try and debate here is that I don't want to make it worse by adding pointless and inflammatory posts to an already rule-breaking discussion.

On a similar note. Melethiel, could I report fellow TEs in here who do that? Or are only the creationists allowed to report people here? Cause I'd be glad to help out here if it all possible. I enjoyed talking with FallingWaters a little while ago, and I'd prefer not to get completely booted out by the actions of some of my fellows.

Metherion

Anybody can report rule-breaking posts.

 

[HypnoToad]

Second, as to whether or not you should report them. I would say no. While they may be violating the rules, if they get kicked off they lose a place where they can potentially encounter God's truth, and they will be given a bad impression of how Christians engage non-Christians.

I can't say I agree with not reporting them.

Allowing them to go around with blatant disrespect, insults, and smug superiority with impunity is precisely why I almost never come to Origins Theology anymore. How many other decent Christians are driven away by them?

I'd rather have unrighteousness driven away for being unrighteous, then have righteousness driven away for the sake of "being nice".

 

[busterdog]

On a note similar to metherion's, I hope that it is recognized that at least some of us TEs are obeying the rules (at least trying to).

I will go farther than that. Some folks like you post with as much grace as anyone on the forum.

 

[busterdog]

In all seriousness, I would like you guys to know that I'm on your side in this, and the only reason that I don't come in here and tell off some of the TEs who try and debate here is that I don't want to make it worse by adding pointless and inflammatory posts to an already rule-breaking discussion.

On a similar note. Melethiel, could I report fellow TEs in here who do that? Or are only the creationists allowed to report people here? Cause I'd be glad to help out here if it all possible. I enjoyed talking with FallingWaters a little while ago, and I'd prefer not to get completely booted out by the actions of some of my fellows.

Metherion

Reps. Thank you.

You needn't tell anyone off. A word to the wise is sufficient. No end of posting will deter someone determined to break the rules.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

In all seriousness, I would like you guys to know that I'm on your side in this, and the only reason that I don't come in here and tell off some of the TEs who try and debate here is that I don't want to make it worse by adding pointless and inflammatory posts to an already rule-breaking discussion.

On a similar note. Melethiel, could I report fellow TEs in here who do that? Or are only the creationists allowed to report people here? Cause I'd be glad to help out here if it all possible. I enjoyed talking with FallingWaters a little while ago, and I'd prefer not to get completely booted out by the actions of some of my fellows.

Metherion

Thank you for your support.

 

[IFG1P315]

I'd rather have unrighteousness driven away for being unrighteous, then have righteousness driven away for the sake of "being nice".

I never advocated "being nice," merely showing them grace and allowing them to experience a good witness. One that engages them despite their behavior. Think on what would happen if God had taken your stance towards them with you.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I will go farther than that. Some folks like you post with as much grace as anyone on the forum.

Thank you. (Of course, now I got to live up to it! Oy!)

 

[HypnoToad]

Think on what would happen if God had taken your stance towards them with you.

???
I'm not talking about having them sent to hell. Otherwise, I've got no clue what that's supposed to mean.

 

[IFG1P315]

???
I'm not talking about having them sent to hell. Otherwise, I've got no clue what that's supposed to mean.

All I meant was that you do not seem to be showing them much grace in their inability to follow the rules.
I wanted you to examine if that was representative of Christ. He did not choose to give us our just punishment because of our inability to follow the rules. Rather He showed us grace.

Now it does not apply directly, but it should make us stop and think: Is getting them booted what is best, for us and them? Or is it better to show them grace and continue to present the truth, no matter how annoyingly belligerent they can be. As I said, there are some benefits to this position.

I realize this is not what you intend to say, but there is an analogous example. If the church were to kick people out that break "the rules" then those people would 1)not have a place to hear the truth and 2)not be shown the love that desires them to follow those "rules."
That does not mean we should ignore the violations, but that we should point them out with a proper intent of love and a desire for all to know the truth.

As an aside note, you seem to be taking me confrontationally. I do not wish to fight, only to discuss. There is no reason for either of us to be harsh. We are on the same side, we're simply talking about what the best way to deal with those who break the rules is.
I hope I said nothing that made me appear hostile. If so I apologize.

 

[busterdog]

Thank you. (Of course, now I got to live up to it! Oy!)

we will be watching!

 

[HypnoToad]

All I meant was that you do not seem to be showing them much grace in their inability to follow the rules.
I wanted you to examine if that was representative of Christ. He did not choose to give us our just punishment because of our inability to follow the rules. Rather He showed us grace.

Now it does not apply directly, but it should make us stop and think: Is getting them booted what is best, for us and them? Or is it better to show them grace and continue to present the truth, no matter how annoyingly belligerent they can be. As I said, there are some benefits to this position.

I realize this is not what you intend to say, but there is an analogous example. If the church were to kick people out that break "the rules" then those people would 1)not have a place to hear the truth and 2)not be shown the love that desires them to follow those "rules."
That does not mean we should ignore the violations, but that we should point them out with a proper intent of love and a desire for all to know the truth.

There is a Scriptural procedure called "excommunication" for people who can't behave as they should. It is not just to push them out, either - it's intended to get them to seek repentence so that they may re-enter the church.

In the same way, forum bans don't have to be permanent.

 

[busterdog]

All I meant was that you do not seem to be showing them much grace in their inability to follow the rules.
I wanted you to examine if that was representative of Christ. He did not choose to give us our just punishment because of our inability to follow the rules. Rather He showed us grace.

Now it does not apply directly, but it should make us stop and think: Is getting them booted what is best, for us and them? Or is it better to show them grace and continue to present the truth, no matter how annoyingly belligerent they can be. As I said, there are some benefits to this position.

I realize this is not what you intend to say, but there is an analogous example. If the church were to kick people out that break "the rules" then those people would 1)not have a place to hear the truth and 2)not be shown the love that desires them to follow those "rules."
That does not mean we should ignore the violations, but that we should point them out with a proper intent of love and a desire for all to know the truth.

As an aside note, you seem to be taking me confrontationally. I do not wish to fight, only to discuss. There is no reason for either of us to be harsh. We are on the same side, we're simply talking about what the best way to deal with those who break the rules is.
I hope I said nothing that made me appear hostile. If so I apologize.

I think your observations make sense and were properly stated.

I do disagree, however.

First, it is hard to imagine what turning the other cheek really represents on an online forum. I mean really, there is no serious threat to anyone and even a harsh post is just a bunch of words.

Second, I think most of us have been through many attempts to put forth our positions and support them. The violation of the rules here is an attempt of the belligerent to get a few digs in despite of the civility and the properly argued YEC evidence contained in this forum. And, lets also remember that we are defending the literal Word, so there are reasons to refuse to tolerate gratuitous attacks. Not all YEC posts are graceful and scholarly, but those that have been stated as such are just so much refuse to the manay of the TE posts in OT. To say that there is zero basis for any YEC science or even liteary arguments about the meaning of Gen. 1, 2 is to say that the YEC position is unreasoning garbage. After several reiterations of that point, I see little reason to simply accept more of the same indulgently.

Now, I am not sure what Paul meant by the following, but I am don't think "turning the other cheek" quite captures his methods:

1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2Ti 2:16
But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2Ti 2:17
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

This is some evidence for the proposition that they should be shunned when breaking the rules here.

 

[IFG1P315]

I think your observations make sense and were properly stated.

I do disagree, however.

First, it is hard to imagine what turning the other cheek really represents on an online forum. I mean really, there is no serious threat to anyone and even a harsh post is just a bunch of words.

True but the exegetical nature of the statement by Jesus you refer to makes more sense as a response to insults and not serious physical threat. So while I am not saying your end point is wrong, this particular point does not make "turning the other cheek" irrelevant.

I should also mention I did not even have this passage in mind when I wrote. I did not even think of it until I read it in your post.

Second, I think most of us have been through many attempts to put forth our positions and support them. The violation of the rules here is an attempt of the belligerent to get a few digs in despite of the civility and the properly argued YEC evidence contained in this forum. And, lets also remember that we are defending the literal Word, so there are reasons to refuse to tolerate gratuitous attacks. Not all YEC posts are graceful and scholarly, but those that have been stated as such are just so much refuse to the manay of the TE posts in OT. To say that there is zero basis for any YEC science or even liteary arguments about the meaning of Gen. 1, 2 is to say that the YEC position is unreasoning garbage. After several reiterations of that point, I see little reason to simply accept more of the same indulgently.

Very true, a "shake the dust from your feat" approach. Certainly Biblically and logically supported.

This is some evidence for the proposition that they should be shunned when breaking the rules here.

Your end point is solid. We agree more than we disagree really. I did not mean to make it seem that the approach I suggested should be universally applied. Only that it would be spiritually prudent to examine what the most Biblical course of action would be. And a consideration of the grace response is important. Now I would certainly not advocate grace always and ever, God is as much of justice as mercy. I simply wanted it to be something that was thought about. A justice only approach is not the proper way either.