Homosexuality: Right or Wrong? (read pg1)

[JayJay77]

First of all, let me explain that I am against homosexuality, the lifestyle, not the person. Even God says that He loves the sinner, but hates the sin.

However, with homosexuality on the rise (even in my small, conservative community) I want to sharpen my sword of truth by seeking scripture.

No doubt, the majority on this site agree with me. So let me be the Devil's advocate arguing for homosexuality. I am not trying to make anyone mad, but just trying to sharpen my own sword. Please join me in this debate, as it has already in our church circles.

So, is homosexuality wrong? Prove it.

 

[Elife3]

Homosexuality is spoken of as being an abomination numerous times. Therefore, I believe that God hates homosexual lifestyles, too.

 

[JayJay77]

from Elife3:
Homosexuality is spoken of as being an abomination numerous times. Therefore, I believe that God hates homosexual lifestyles, too.

Where in the Bible does it say that? Show me. Does it say "homosexuality is an abomination?"

 

[revanneosl]

Please don't try to "sharpen your sword" against homosexuality. Homosexuals face enough challanges in life without getting run through with swords, metaphorical or otherwise.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I never entered into one of these sorts of discussions.

If the husband is head of the wife how would that work with Adam and Steve verses Adam and Eve?

Are there verses that give Gods blessings for men with men or women with women?

The only one I can think of is TWO MEN in a bed, one will be taken the other left

 

[JayJay77]

from ravanneosl:
Please don't try to "sharpen your sword" against homosexuality. Homosexuals face enough challanges in life without getting run through with swords, metaphorical or otherwise.Today 02:04 PM

So, I guess we have to argue about whether or not we can argue about homosexuality. Please visit:
http://www.truthsetsfree.net/bible.htm

This is no longer a lifestyle that is being kept secret. It is infiltrating our churches...our very priesthood!!!

The Presbyterian church has already voiced its tolerance of homosexual minsters preaching from the pulpit! (Now granted, it's really the same as an alchoholic minister, or a youth pastor committing adultery.) None the less, it is not right.

So how are you going to tell a gay pastor that he cannot preach at your church? How can you prove that homosexuality is wrong? Where are the scriptures?

 

[Zecryphon]

Where in the Bible does it say that? Show me. Does it say "homosexuality is an abomination?"

Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

 

[Zecryphon]

So, I guess we have to argue about whether or not we can argue about homosexuality. Please visit:
http://www.truthsetsfree.net/bible.htm

This is no longer a lifestyle that is being kept secret. It is infiltrating our churches...our very priesthood!!!

The Presbyterian church has already voiced its tolerance of homosexual minsters preaching from the pulpit! (Now granted, it's really the same as an alchoholic minister, or a youth pastor committing adultery.) None the less, it is not right.

So how are you going to tell a gay pastor that he cannot preach at your church? How can you prove that homosexuality is wrong? Where are the scriptures?

Since when does the gender of your lover become the basis of your lifestyle? Just what is the "homosexual lifestyle"? Does it mean that you go to more fabulous places than heterosexual people do? Ya know, like art galleries and the theatre?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Since when does the gender of your lover become the basis of your lifestyle? Just what is the "homosexual lifestyle"? Does it mean that you go to more fabulous places than heterosexual people do? Ya know, like art galleries and the theatre?

God making them male and female and joining these two as one is a basis for something isnt it? Showing (at least) in the foundation (before all things) its not male and male, but male and female (at least there) I would think. Other then that I'd say love for one another.

 

[revanneosl]

Lev 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

The quotations from Leviticus do indeed intimate that God forbids homosexual love from the people of the law. We christians, however, are not required to keep the levitical law. There are just whole huge bunches of those laws that we regularly and flagrantly violate, and that's okay. They aren't for us. They're for Israel.

The Romans passage (if you read it in its entirety) indicates that homosexual inclinations are a punishment for sin, not that they are themselves sinful.

 

[mont974x4]

It's wrong, but it isn't the super sin that many make it out to be.

NASB
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.
1Co 6:13 Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body.
1Co 6:14 Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power.
1Co 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be!
1Co 6:16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."
1Co 6:17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1Co 6:18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.
1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.



Rember we are to deny our flesh and walk in the Spirit as new creatures/creations. Check Romans chapters 6-8.

 

[mont974x4]

I'm sorry but it seems to me that the Romans passage does not make it a punishment, only that He let them continue in their sin. God is longsuffering but He does draw a line at some point and let's us have our destructive way...and we reap the consequences.


NASB
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The Romans passage (if you read it in its entirety) indicates that homosexual inclinations are a punishment for sin, not that they are themselves sinful.

Thats what it appears to say, I agree with you but would it not indicate being sold under (and given unto that) which is sinful?

 

[mont974x4]

from Strongs concordance the words in Romans 1:26


gave
G3860
παραδίδωμι
paradidōmi
par-ad-id'-o-mee
From G3844 and G1325; to surrender, that is, yield up, intrust, transmit: - betray, bring forth, cast, commit, deliver (up), give (over, up), hazard, put in prison, recommend.


them over
G3860
παραδίδωμι
paradidōmi
par-ad-id'-o-mee
From G3844 and G1325; to surrender, that is, yield up, intrust, transmit: - betray, bring forth, cast, commit, deliver (up), give (over, up), hazard, put in prison, recommend.

 

[Fireinfolding]

from Strongs concordance the words in Romans 1:26


gave
G3860
παραδίδωμι
paradidōmi
par-ad-id'-o-mee
From G3844 and G1325; to surrender, that is, yield up, intrust, transmit: - betray, bring forth, cast, commit, deliver (up), give (over, up), hazard, put in prison, recommend.


them over
G3860
παραδίδωμι
paradidōmi
par-ad-id'-o-mee
From G3844 and G1325; to surrender, that is, yield up, intrust, transmit: - betray, bring forth, cast, commit, deliver (up), give (over, up), hazard, put in prison, recommend.

Sounds a bit like a slave to ones own lusts toward what is unatural (even among men). A prisoner (of sorts) locked up, given over to it and to the feeling and the penalty of ones conscience?

You know...Im feeling this one out actually. For me, it was the Spirits conviction (in me) which convinced me otherwise and the power of God to deliver me "from" something "similiar".

 

[mont974x4]

Yeah being a drunkard and chasing women made me a man I didn't want to know.


Thank God for HIs love and patience.

 

[ticker]

I like your stance OP....something a lot of Christians don't ever seem to think about...the difference between having homosexual tendencies, and acting out one's homosexuality.

It must be awful hard for believers who are dealing with feelings of homosexuality...especially regarding decisions about acting on those homosexual desires.....which, I would definitely argue, could be more cause for concern than simply having the desires themselves.

However...when it really comes down to it though, one could say that even having homosexual thoughts or tendencies is just as "wrong" as acting out on them. And by "wrong" I mean the same way the Bible talks about lust being just as "wrong" if you do it in your mind or in action. Or the same way having hatred for your brother in your mind is just as "wrong" as doing something hateful to him in action.

It might sound kinda harsh...but I would say there's as much "right" about homosexuality (as a general idea) as there is about adultery, or hatred for our brother/sister. They're clearly not things that God wants us to do. And if someone is dealing with thoughts of adultery, or hatered for their brother, or homosexuality, then it's unfortunate, but it wouldn't mean it's ok just because they happen to have these feelings. Know what I mean?

God bless...and I hope the situation in your church is resolved with grace and understanding.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yeah being a drunkard and chasing women made me a man I didn't want to know.


Thank God for HIs love and patience.

Amen bro I hear you We all been there in one place or another. One thing I knew (in me) was the emptiness I felt being led by lust, its a very powerful thing (feeling). That I do recall. Unfortunately (after its satisfied) theres nothing left in it afterwards. At least there wasnt for me, only "the next time" I could give myself over to it.

But what had happened (to me) was that I appeared to spiral down to lower forms of degrading myself and experimentation.

When you are "there" the lust itself does appear to rule over you. Even if I wanted to say no (in my mind, knowing better) I honestly felt I could not (torn in two) it felt like. It was very powerful, that much I do know.

Thats why what was posted concerning being "given over to it" (as a punishment in itself) made some sense (in my own mind) and experience.

I think we all have experimented with things (in some way) either sexually or with drugs (or whichever). But I never felt it was ok (within me) my flesh did that much was clear to my own conscience with which I need to be honest with.

Praise God is right bro

 

[Fireinfolding]

I like your stance OP....something a lot of Christians don't ever seem to think about...the difference between having homosexual tendencies, and acting out one's homosexuality.

It must be awful hard for believers who are dealing with feelings of homosexuality...especially regarding decisions about acting on those homosexual desires.....which, I would definitely argue, could be more cause for concern than simply having the desires themselves.

However...when it really comes down to it though, one could say that even having homosexual thoughts or tendencies is just as "wrong" as acting out on them. And by "wrong" I mean the same way the Bible talks about lust being just as "wrong" if you do it in your mind or in action. Or the same way having hatred for your brother in your mind is just as "wrong" as doing something hateful to him in action.

It might sound kinda harsh...but I would say there's as much "right" about homosexuality (as a general idea) as there is about adultery, or hatred for our brother/sister. They're clearly not things that God wants us to do. And if someone is dealing with thoughts of adultery, or hatered for their brother, or homosexuality, then it's unfortunate, but it wouldn't mean it's ok just because they happen to have these feelings. Know what I mean?

God bless...and I hope the situation in your church is resolved with grace and understanding.

There appears to be equality as it pertains to our thoughts as well Tick wouldnt you think?

Jesus spoke of man looking upon a woman in order to lust after her (which is inward) and raised it to an equal stature of committing adultery in his heart with her.

Wouldnt it be the same in regards to a woman towards a woman, or a man with a man? Its a "looking upon" IN ORDER to lust AFTER right? Elsewhere it speaks of being given over to their lusts (that which is of the heart) right?

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[ticker]

Yep...that's what I was getting at.