Women pastors, the spirit of whoredom

[Nadiine]

K, so this is turning into a Catholic debate

Floating's right, CHRIST became our High Priest (Heb. 9-11). As far as I read in the NT, God appoints Shepherds who are overseers of His flocks.

The issue is basically if a woman is appropriate to oversee a congregation.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

No one can be a physical priest in the Church--only Christ. He is the only mediator between God and mankind.

The view that women cannot pastor is not from Scripture, but from the erroneous and ignorant interpretation of one or two verses, making an entire doctrine out of something that Paul never intended. Big mistake, which Satan has instituted, messing with the Body of Christ. You cannot make doctrine out of one or two verses.

Even a High Priests has priests under him. You see this with Moses and Aaron.

So does Jesus have priests under him and these priests hold dynastic offices.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Even a High Priests has priests under him. You see this with Moses and Aaron.

So does Jesus have priests under him and these priests hold dynastic offices.

Well, the bible says we are a holy priesthood, doesn't it?

 

[catholicemom]

When you ask the Holy Spirit to live His life in you,and ask Him to fill you with His power--He comes! Amen!

He has proved Himself over and over again to me, so that I know His voice...and many other Christians know that deep fellowship with Him as well. We trust Him to reveal the truth of His Word to our hearts, and when we discuss the Word, we are all in agreement! He agrees with Himself always!

Now, we may read the same portion of Scripture--for example, (small example)

Isaiah 10:27
It shall come to pass in that day
That his burden will be taken away from your shoulder,
And his yoke from your neck,
And the yoke will be destroyed because of the anointing oil.


We could discuss this and some of us would get a different TRUE meanng from it, but each inerpretation is in agreement with the Word of God. We could discuss the historical nature of the passage, how the yoke of bondage was suffered by Israel and then we could also be instructed in the prophetic nature of the passage referring to Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit's anointing, and how the yoke of sin is suffered by the world without Christ.

Two interprettions--both in total agreement!

I am new to this forum and this one caught my interest. THere is so many things that I can reply to but I guess I will start here because this one doesn't make sense to me at all.

First of all, if you are a Catholic, woman cannot be priest. Period. Priests are only ordained through a valid bishop that is in conformity with the Pope and Magestrium. Any other ordaination from other religious is invalid. Sorry that is the truth and it cannot be changed - whether you have proof in the bible to support your theory.

There is no two interpretations. It is the TRUTH or NOT. Only the devil creates gray areas. That is why the world is so screwed up in the first place.

Jesus Christ passed down his teaching to the Apostles, and they passed it to their aposolics etc.. that is Apostolic Succession. There is no apostolic succesion by just picking up the bible and recreating it over again. It has been already established.

So what you are saying that any or some interpretation is in align with the Word of God is very false and you need to be in serious prayer before you can even go on and think about women priest.

I know many Catholic woman who think like you and who are in serious grave error. "Feeling" about the Word of God has no pretense of being right. If you are really serious about study scripture and understanding the Word of God, you can contact any local Catholic Church and join the RCIA.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Hey, it's not narrow at all! It's easy, and how God has made it so! Man always complicates things!

What I'm trying to say is, in our zeal to prove our point, especially on these forums, we often lose sight of the fact, we are brethren and hurl accusations and get, rude (OK I'm guilty also). We should be able to disagree without so much rancor, shouldn't we?

 

[Jerrell]

There are no priests in the Body of Christ. Christ is our sole Priest.

The feminist movement has had something to do with the unholy wrest of pulpits in many churches today. However, the truth of God's Word is one that elevates women from their less-than-human position of Jesus' day, to joint authority with men under Christ in His Body.

The church that we now call the RCC stomped on that with their woman-hating mindset, influenced by the culture of the times (Greco-Roman), and thus they have had a lot of influence on women who would know Christ and on their abilities to serve Him. In other words, the church held women back.

In this century, we have had a movement of the Holy Spirit on His people, which has served to break down many barriers for women. Slow as it is, it is exactly what should happen. In the Spirit-filled churches, we see women serving alongside men, and husbands in ministry---just as they did in Paul's day. What a wonderful thing!

The Holy Spirit is at work freeing people from bondages and stereotyping in His very own Body! Of course He would! He is a wonderful Saviour!

This freedom in Christ we have as women will mount and continue, as the fullness of the Holy Spirit continues to move throughout the world---until Jesus returns!

Come, Holy Spirit, come! Fill this world with your presence! Make way for Jesus the King!

I don't believe in current day preists, because all CHristians are a Holy Preisthood- but I was simply stating the belief of the later based Universal Church.

Also the bible does not teach any exaltation to "joint"authority" with men. I agree with equality, but the authority in the Church has always, and as is taught by scripture, given to men.

The Church doesn't hold women back, you don't have to be in the office of a Preacher or Pastor tyo do the work of God- consider Mother Thresa.

In this century we've had a huge hit of opinion/self interpretation rather than true scriptural teaching to hit the Church. Churches now ordain homosexual ministers, Bishops and Preist, they allow women to lead the Church, they openly ordain sinful human beings, they preach a Gospel of Money and Health, among many other things.

 

[Jerrell]

K, so this is turning into a Catholic debate

Floating's right, CHRIST became our High Priest (Heb. 9-11). As far as I read in the NT, God appoints Shepherds who are overseers of His flocks.

The issue is basically if a woman is appropriate to oversee a congregation.

In the Bible shepards were always men.....

 

[Jerrell]

Even a High Priests has priests under him. You see this with Moses and Aaron.

So does Jesus have priests under him and these priests hold dynastic offices.

There is one High Preist, Jesus. And all his followers in the Way are a Holy Preisthood.

 

[Nadiine]

In the Bible shepards were always men.....

I know & agree with that - I just didn't want to see this derailing into a Catholic debate.

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Yeah, well I'm looking forward to the day when this is all sorted out. Won't be before Christ returns. You can look at the world and at the church and know for a surety, we need help.

 

[Nadiine]

Yeah, well I'm looking forward to the day when this is all sorted out. Won't be before Christ returns. You can look at the world and at the church and know for a surety, we need help.

Well, it doesn't personally 'effect' me in that, I don't go to a church where a female is my Pastor - and I wouldn't go to one in any good conscience.
It's my opinion that the churches most effected by female preachers are Pentecostals or Episcopals?
Correct me if that's wrong.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Even a High Priests has priests under him. You see this with Moses and Aaron.

So does Jesus have priests under him and these priests hold dynastic offices.

How many times do you have to be told? In Scripture, the entire Body of Christ, His people, His sheep, born again, living-for-Christ Christians are THE ROYAL PRIESTHOOD.

The Old Covenant system is no longer in effect.

 

[Jerrell]

There are no more Preists, all the true followers of Christ are a royal Preisthood.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I am new to this forum and this one caught my interest. THere is so many things that I can reply to but I guess I will start here because this one doesn't make sense to me at all.

First of all, if you are a Catholic, woman cannot be priest. Period. Priests are only ordained through a valid bishop that is in conformity with the Pope and Magestrium. Any other ordaination from other religious is invalid. Sorry that is the truth and it cannot be changed - whether you have proof in the bible to support your theory.

No, as you can see, I am NOT Catholic. Precisely why I am posting what the Word of God says, rather than what some church says.

There is no two interpretations. It is the TRUTH or NOT. Only the devil creates gray areas. That is why the world is so screwed up in the first place.

The Holy Spirit often gives one heart a message and another heart another...both are from Him, and both are inspired by the same Scripture. Happens all the time. It's wonderful! I can journal on a passage one day, and six months later journal on the same passage, and the Holy Spirit speaks to me saying something entirely different! Fantastic! The food of the Word is a banquet!

Jesus Christ passed down his teaching to the Apostles, and they passed it to their aposolics etc.. that is Apostolic Succession. There is no apostolic succesion by just picking up the bible and recreating it over again. It has been already established.

There is no apostolic succession ordered by the Lord.

So what you are saying that any or some interpretation is in align with the Word of God is very false and you need to be in serious prayer before you can even go on and think about women priest.

I know many Catholic woman who think like you and who are in serious grave error. "Feeling" about the Word of God has no pretense of being right. If you are really serious about study scripture and understanding the Word of God, you can contact any local Catholic Church and join the RCIA.

I don't live by feelings. Feelings lie about the real truth of the matter. I have studied Scripture for many years.

I decline your invitation to a Catholic Church--thanks, but no thanks!

Welcome to Foru.ms anyhow!

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Does any realize it was the Catholic Church in 382 that set out to translate from Latin the books now used in the New Testament into the Vulgate?

That it is the Catholic Church that chose the 27 books of the New Testament from more than 200 books?

That yes the Catholic Church is the Universal church spoken of as early as 100 AD and it is the same Church that has been led by the Spirit of Truth since Jesus left the Spirit to Protect and Remember the Truth?

All these remarks about "oh Ihave the Holy Spirit and it talks to me and told me women can be priests" is just ludicrous. The Spirit of Truth came after Jesus to protect his church and YES it is only ONE church.

As stated previously the Catholic Church does indeed trace it's roots through Apostlic Succession to the Apostles and thus to Christ himself.

If you find yourself in a church today that is other than the Catholic Church or the Eastern Church then you have no valid Orders and do not have the Spirit of Truth guiding and Protecting your church.

ANY church that is other than these two churches DID NOT EXIST until the 16th century or later is not God made but man made. That is why there are so many denominations because they are not of God's church they are from someone else. They have valid Baptisms but what else???

All I have said is proven through history and is not some ones fanciful fantasy of some spirit telling them the Truth. Jesus gave us the Truth when he was here and the Apostles taught it and the Spirit of Truth has protected it. Anything else is not from God since God gave us his teachings before he left.

Scriptural and historical and fact. Beat that...

 

[JWNEWMAN]

This would be hilarious if it was not God we were talking about...

Does any realize it was the Catholic Church in 382 that set out to translate from Latin the books now used in the New Testament into the Vulgate?

That it is the Catholic Church that chose the 27 books of the New Testament from more than 200 books?

That yes the Catholic Church is the Universal church spoken of as early as 100 AD and it is the same Church that has been led by the Spirit of Truth since Jesus left the Spirit to Protect and Remember the Truth?

All these remarks about "oh Ihave the Holy Spirit and it talks to me and told me women can be priests" is just ludicrous. The Spirit of Truth came after Jesus to protect his church and YES it is only ONE church.

As stated previously the Catholic Church does indeed trace it's roots through Apostlic Succession to the Apostles and thus to Christ himself.

If you find yourself in a church today that is other than the Catholic Church or the Eastern Church then you have no valid Orders and do not have the Spirit of Truth guiding and Protecting your church.

ANY church that is other than these two churches DID NOT EXIST until the 16th century or later is not God made but man made. That is why there are so many denominations because they are not of God's church they are from someone else. They have valid Baptisms but what else???

All I have said is proven through history and is not some ones fanciful fantasy of some spirit telling them the Truth. Jesus gave us the Truth when he was here and the Apostles taught it and the Spirit of Truth has protected it. Anything else is not from God since God gave us his teachings before he left.

Scriptural and historical and fact. Beat that...

So, you're saying what? If we don't belong to the Catholic Church we don't belong to God?

Now that indeed is something I might be tempted to call blasphemy.

Christ is the mediator between God and man. No church no clergy but Christ Himself.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

There are no more Preists, all the true followers of Christ are a royal Preisthood.

1 Timothy

5:17. Let the priests that rule well be esteemed worthy of double honour: especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
[SIZE=-1]Qui bene praesunt presbyteri duplici honore digni habeantur maxime qui laborant in verbo et doctrina[/SIZE]

5:19. Against a priest receive not an accusation, but under two or three witnesses.
[SIZE=-1]Adversus presbyterum accusationem noli recipere nisi sub duobus et tribus testibus[/SIZE]



Yes there are Priests that rule over the others. This is not language of everyone being king and no one being servants. But it can be confusing because Jesus said a leader must serve and so Priests are servants and as Pastors they are Shephards of their flock.

It is not a flock of shephards or a flock of sheep without a shephard.


As to your claim that there are no priests you should read all scripture together and not just the lines that sound good.

Look at 1 Peter to see what I mean...

2:9. But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
[SIZE=-1]Vos autem genus electum regale sacerdotium gens sancta populus adquisitionis ut virtutes adnuntietis eius qui de tenebris vos vocavit in admirabile lumen suum[/SIZE]


What is being said is that we are temples of the Holy Spirit because it lives in us and so we are priests in that we have or own temple which is our body and we are it's priest. Again we see false interpretation and understanding in the wrong context.

But see further in the letter...


2:25. For you were as sheep going astray: but you are now converted to the shepherd and bishop of your souls.
[SIZE=-1]Eratis enim sicut oves errantes sed conversi estis nunc ad pastorem et episcopum animarum vestrarum[/SIZE]


We see in line 25 where it concludes this chapter that what is being spoken of is that we are a shephard/priest/bishop of our own soul now.

But it is also written by a man who is a leader of the people as the Priest or Bishop of the Church which is here on Earth to remember and protect God's teachings when he came to us as Jesus.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So, you're saying what? If we don't belong to the Catholic Church we don't belong to God?

Now that indeed is something I might be tempted to call blasphemy.

Christ is the mediator between God and man. No church no clergy but Christ Himself.

That is a shallow remark.

I never said ONLY Catholics are of God. I said ONLY the Catholic Church is of God. But you probably understand church as only spiritual. Sad really because so many fall short of the full truth because of this.

Of course the church is spiritual in nature but it is also the place a person goes for guidance. Scripture tells us that if we have a difference with a brother/sister to take it to two or more brothers/sisters and if that does not resolve it then take it to the Church.

Obviously in todays world one would have to decided which of the thousands of different 'churches' should they go? But in reality there has only been one church and one place to go and you guessed it. The Catholic Church.

What I am saying is that the Catholic Church is also the teachings of Jesus and these teachings are unchanged from the beginning because the Spirit protects this church. Scripture says that the Church will stand against the Gates of Hell and that wolves will enter it and decieve. Yes this has been the history of the Catholic Church and Judas Iscariot was probably the first to be a wolf.

Scripture also says that Jesus will build his Church on a Rock so it will stand against the storms. The Rock is Peter (Simon) and who else can show a Apostolic succession all the way back to Peter?

The answer is simple... NO ONE.


This IS the church Jesus built. Call it blasphemy for many evil people and lost sheep have.

 

[KCDAD]

Galatians 3:28

 

[JacktheCatholic]

It simply amazes me how people can argue something going back 2,000 years with absolutely no clue as to the history of it.

Here we have a debate on "women pastors" and almost all the replies are nothing more than a personal opinion based on feelings and some voices they claim to be of the Holy Spirit.

Yet if any one got off their fantasy wagon of self righteous indignation and arrogance and checked the history books they would find that so much of what is argued at this forum is "old hat". Yes, this is nothing new. The church had herectics in the past that tried to make women priests and the Church kicked them out and the people accepted the Catholic Churches teachings.

Then the age of reason came along with the printing press and now every person, no matter how unlearned or ignorant, is reading scripture. Then all the herecies of 1500 years start to flourish anew and in less than 400 years we have millions of people believing the lies of satan as though it were the gospel.

We have some farmer in the USA that claim Gabriel the angel came and Jesus is not God and he starts the Jehovah's witnesses. We have Calvin with no real learnings of the church saying the bread at the eucharist is only symbolic. We have Luther saying the eucharist is the real flesh of Christ but all Jews should be put in slavery or killed. We also have a King who wanted to get divorced and remarry because he wants to have sex with everything in a dress and he decides to make himself Pope. But that is just the beginning. Now we have any yahoo who wants to make a church, can start a denomination and now we have the "yahoo church of god". And if that is not enough we have some real smart people say, it all is right any you believe is good, and 'poof' we have a "non denominational" where anything goes.





Guess what folks, this is all old hat.

It was done hundreds of years before Luther or the Reformation. These questions are not new and yes there was a group that tried female priests and guess what? They no longer exist because that is not the church that will stand against the gates of hell.

There is ONE church that has been on this earth teaching the same thing for 2,000 years and it is the Catholic Church. FACT and not some self proclaimed 'holy spirit talking to me' encounter.