In The Beginning (Genesis troubles)

[Yekcidmij]

1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

What is meant in verse 2? "Formless" and "Void"; what do those mean exactly? What is "surface of the deep"? Is Genesis saying the earth was a big ball of water before God made land? How should we interpret this?

6Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.

So is Genesis saying the whole earth was nothing but water in the beginning?

 

[Deamiter]

What is meant in verse 2? "Formless" and "Void"; what do those mean exactly? What is "surface of the deep"? Is Genesis saying the earth was a big ball of water before God made land? How should we interpret this?

It's actually more confusing if you consider that the Hebrew word translated "was" in verse 2 actually indicates that the Earth BECAME formless and void.

Genesis was written to directly contradict the many early understandings of the universe that claimed that the many gods came out of chaos and created the world. The verse is starting from this chaotic understanding of the beginning and showing how the one true God is actually the creator of all that was previously attributed to a number of gods of varying power.

So is Genesis saying the whole earth was nothing but water in the beginning?

If you study the Assyrian and Egyptian understanding of creation, you'll find that many of these things like mention of waters above and waters below (the Hebrew people believed that the air was held in a crystal dome above which more water made the sky look blue). Many verses attest to this understanding of the universe including mention of God's use of windows in the firmament (the solid dome keeping the waters above up) to pour down rain and snow.

 

[Assyrian]

The other option is that the earth really was covered with water a long long time ago. During the Hadean era about 4.2 billion years ago, the earth was either largely or entirely covered with water. See www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2000/PSCF9-00Held.html

 

[Yekcidmij]

The other option is that the earth really was covered with water a long long time ago. During the Hadean era about 4.2 billion years ago, the earth was either largely or entirely covered with water. See www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2000/PSCF9-00Held.html

I've heard this before, but don't know much at all about this theory. Is there any compelling evidence for it? Is there evidence against it?

 

[gluadys]

So is Genesis saying the whole earth was nothing but water in the beginning?

More or less. See also the description of the early stages of creation in Proverbs 8:22-31

Note especially vs. 27-29. Notice that God is pictured as drawing a circle on the face of the deep (which is all there was so far) and then "making the heavens firm" (=creating a firmament) above the circle. Then he assigns the sea a limit and sets the foundations for the earth underneath the heavens.


That image of God starting everything off by demarcating a circle on the deep crops up in some other scriptures too.

 

[busterdog]

What is meant in verse 2? "Formless" and "Void"; what do those mean exactly? What is "surface of the deep"? Is Genesis saying the earth was a big ball of water before God made land? How should we interpret this?



So is Genesis saying the whole earth was nothing but water in the beginning?

My vote:

Rom 4:17
... God ... calleth those things which be not as though they were

If the idea exists in the intention of God, can be "nonexistent." I don't think so. It would be more like something dark and void and unrealized, being not yet spoken into existence?

Some creationist has modeled a creation event out of water plasma. Don't know who or how it works. But, its pretty mysterious and I see your concern.

 

[Yekcidmij]

More or less. See also the description of the early stages of creation in Proverbs 8:22-31

Note especially vs. 27-29. Notice that God is pictured as drawing a circle on the face of the deep (which is all there was so far) and then "making the heavens firm" (=creating a firmament) above the circle. Then he assigns the sea a limit and sets the foundations for the earth underneath the heavens.


That image of God starting everything off by demarcating a circle on the deep crops up in some other scriptures too.

This question isn't necessarily directed at or to you. Is there any physical evidence for this or any physcial evidence against it?

 

[gluadys]

This question isn't necessarily directed at or to you. Is there any physical evidence for this or any physcial evidence against it?

Oh there is plenty of physical evidence against it. Ancient cosmology was fine for the ancients, but it hardly has the capacity to describe an expanding universe of billions of galaxies.

If there was no physical evidence against it, we would still be teaching it in universities and using it as a basis of research.

 

[philadiddle]

There was also a thread of mine I recently bumped hoping to get comments from newcomers. Here's the link. http://www.christianforums.com/t4672216-the-cosmological-view-of-biblical-writers.html
It explains, very briefly, the ancient cosmology of the writers of Genesis.

 

[USincognito]

Some creationist has modeled a creation event out of water plasma. Don't know who or how it works. But, its pretty mysterious and I see your concern.

Do you at least remember what "water plasma" was, or what he meant by that phrase?

 

[Assyrian]

I've heard this before, but don't know much at all about this theory. Is there any compelling evidence for it? Is there evidence against it?

You can see some reference to the question on the link I gave you. It is a question of how fast raised continental crust would form as the surface of the earth cooled and hardened. Remember continental crust is different from simple cooled mantle and rises above the ocean floor because it is lighter. If the earths crust had cooled below 100C before the raised continents were formed then condensing water would have covered the earth, except perhaps for volcanic islands. It is down to a question of what sort of minerals and rocks we find from this early period of earth's history and what the geology says about whether they were formed in continental crust or not. Check out http://www.reasons.org/resources/tnrtb/200609.shtml (2nd last section) and you should check with geologists or geology sites as well.