Attention Archaeologist!

[SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle]

Absolutely! And given the information they had, there was nothing wrong with their logic. No one had sailed around the world yet. No telescope had examined the planets yet. No distant galaxies had been discovered yet.

As Newton once said, we see differently because we stand on the shoulders of giants. The Greeks who first gave reasons for believing the earth is spherical, Copernicus and Galileo who provided the logic and then the evidence that the earth orbits the sun, and later scientists who discovered distant galaxies and the expansion of the universe---which led to discovering its beginning as well.

Yet through it all, the witness of scripture, that the heavens declare the glory of God, has never failed.

We don't need to demand of God that he tell Isaiah and the Psalmists all we know about the universe long before later generations discovered it. They already knew what was important and expressed it in ways that made sense to them. And what they knew was enough to glorify God and all we have added to what they knew doesn't change that a bit.

I agree with ur view better than the other guy before u. More reasonable to me.

 

[gluadys]

I agree with ur view better than the other guy before u. More reasonable to me.

Maybe, with enough time, I can persuade you to look at evolution more positively too.

 

[archaeologist]

No one had sailed around the world yet

this is completely wrong. we know of at least 2 roman ships that sank off the coast of south america. (Return to Sodom and Gomorrah by Charles Pelllegrino {or it was Unearthing Atlantis by the same author})

we also know that the minoans were great sailors and traveled beyond the the strait of gibraltor, what was the extent of their travels we do not know.

No telescope had examined the planets yet. No distant galaxies had been discovered yet.

this also is not true as ancient astronomers studied the heavens thoroughly plus Spidiros Maritinos who discovered the buried city on Thera also discovered a piece of glass in that city which belonged, preseumably, to a telescope.

we do not know all that the ancients had or discovered and we do not know how developed or advanced the pre-flood world was but we do know they spread out around the globe.

[QUOTEWe don't need to demand of God that he tell Isaiah and the Psalmists all we know about the universe long before later generations discovered it][/QUOTE]

the whole paragraph which this comes from is just wrong and misleading. it is an excuse to allow for secular constructs to be added to the Bible .

the ancients knew full well that God created the heavens and the earth sans natural processes or their creation myths would have included remarks concerning that method. they don't and the Bible would have been written differently, it wasn't thus there is no evolution period.

 

[archaeologist]

Why are my questions being ignored?

i believe i provided an answer to your questions

Did the creation days go from morning to morning or evening to evening?

what we know is said in the Bible.

Where is your evidence the vast majority if the church before the time of Copernicus understood heliocentrism and knew not to interpret the geocentric passage literally?

the same place your is on proving they didn't.

If germs were not around at the beginning, but were a result of the Fall, how does that fit with the Earth being unchangable at the end of Creation as you say is shown

creation didn't change, it was corrupted. adamwas still adam, the animals were still the same, etc., the only thing that changed was that sin entered into the world corrupting what was once perfect.

So why does God allow secular non-believing doctors and nurses to heal people when he's quite capable of doing it himself?

God could make everyone believers, why does He use preachers and evangelists?

 

[archaeologist]

here is one link to whati was referring to:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1038045/posts

 

[philadiddle]

archaeologist,

According to the link you provided reguarding the mustard seed, Jesus is not lying because;

There is no contradiction in what Jesus had told them. The parable that Jesus was giving out is an analogy, it's not meant to provide any sort of science education, but to convey a concept using common terms that they would have understood, common concepts being used to explain something they didn't understand.

I totally agree with this. Please explain why this can't be applied to the creation accounts? Could Genesis not be using common concepts to explain something they didn't understand?

And although you attempted to show how the Bible says the earth is a sphere, and that the earth revolves around the sun, you didn't. So that brings us to the last question that you didn't respond to (you ignored it from Deamiter too). Why do you think the earth is a sphere and why do you think it revolves around the sun, if the Bible doesn't say it?

FranciscanJ,

>3<

 

[gluadys]

here is one link to whati was referring to:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1038045/posts

That would be really interesting to follow up on. Too bad current Brazilian politics is getting in the way.

Of course, this still doesn't mean that either the Romans or the Minoans made it around the world.

But I am quite willing to grant that the ancients probably had a lot of accomplishments that would surprise their descendants.

In Europe, of course, a lot of information was lost in the turbulent times after the fall of the Roman Empire.

I have an interesting little book at home called The Lever of Riches: Technological Creativity and Economic Progress by Joel Mokyr. He does a survey of advances in technology ancient, medieval and modern. One of the things he points out is that a lot of technology is a matter of people tinkering with their tools to make them work better. That means a lot of technology was created by ordinary, uneducated people away from the courts and universities. And the uppity-ups among the powerful and educated didn't take much interest in these innovations because they came from "mere peasants".

So many useful inventions were never widely promoted and were soon lost to future generations who had to re-invent them.

 

[metherion]

In post # 85 in darwin's beliefs, archaeologist DID give a definition of secular science.

Here is is.

'secular science' = all science done outside of God, His leading, His word, led by unbelievers, nonscriptural theories (e.g. evolution, natural selection), all conclusions, research, hypothesis, et al that have no foundation in God or His Word and lead away from Him and the truth. And so on.

Now.

creation didn't change, it was corrupted. adamwas still adam, the animals were still the same, etc., the only thing that changed was that sin entered into the world corrupting what was once perfect.

Corruption IS A CHANGE. If it was pure in the beginning, and then later wasn't, IT MUST HAVE CHANGED. There is no two ways about it. Either it didn't change and stayed pure, or it changed and became corrupted. Saying that it both changed from pure to corrupt AND didn't change at all ever doesn't work.

Furthermore, volcanos, earthquakes, and erosion all change things. So do other natural disasters. Do you deny that these happen as well?

Metherion

 

[archaeologist]

And although you attempted to show how the Bible says the earth is a sphere

actuall on this one, i did...from the oxford:

page 1473--" sphere: 1. a solid figure that is completely round...2. any object that is completely round...i.e. a ball.

haven't finished on the other one.

According to the link you provided reguarding the mustard seed, Jesus is not lying because;

i have only provided that link till i finish researching the topic. i make no claims that that article is proving or disproving anything.

Of course, this still doesn't mean that either the Romans or the Minoans made it around the world.

the point is that they did sail across the oceans and even if we found another wreck on the west coast we would not be able to tell from which direction it came. plus we would be extremely lucky to find any shipwreck after all these years.

of course, if we find a shipwreck, then we know they weren't successful and we wouldn't know about the successful ones.

Corruption IS A CHANGE

not the change you want it to be.

Why do you think the earth is a sphere

i did answer with the scripture verse.

Furthermore, volcanos, earthquakes, and erosion all change things

different kind of change.

OKAY, THESE ARE MY LAST ANSWERS UNTIL I START GETTING SOME IN THE THREAD--- 'WHY WAIT'. this is not a one way street.

 

[gluadys]

of course, if we find a shipwreck, then we know they weren't successful and we wouldn't know about the successful ones.

Why would we not know about the successful ones? Why would a successful voyage around the world not be famous?

 

[archaeologist]

Why would we not know about the successful ones? Why would a successful voyage around the world not be famous?

ancients records being what they are, it is highly unlikely any survived to this day. it would be extremely lucky to even get a fragment of such a voyage.

look at how the chinese treated Zheng He and his records. we can't be sure what the authorities did in other times or if such voyages were government sanctioned. if they weren't then any discovered documents would be highly suspect due to lack of authenticity.

http://www.1421.tv/index.asp

 

[Deamiter]

Of course, if this unevidenced world-wide voyage really did happen, and was suppressed by anybody who knew about it, one can hardly claim that the culture knew the world was round because of the voyage. You can't have it both ways -- either the voyage was famous and the people knew about it or it was covered up and is thus a totally moot point.

actuall on this one, i did...from the oxford:

page 1473--" sphere: 1. a solid figure that is completely round...2. any object that is completely round...i.e. a ball.

haven't finished on the other one.

Is this supposed to show how the Bible says the Earth is a sphere because all I see is a definition that neither mentions the Bible nor the Earth.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

this is completely wrong. we know of at least 2 roman ships that sank off the coast of south america. (Return to Sodom and Gomorrah by Charles Pelllegrino {or it was Unearthing Atlantis by the same author})

..

If you are citing Pellegrino as a source, can I cite van Danniken?

LOL!

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

...
OKAY, THESE ARE MY LAST ANSWERS UNTIL I START GETTING SOME IN THE THREAD--- 'WHY WAIT'. this is not a one way street.

Please do not shout.

And you are wrong: this is a one-way thread, established to elicit your answers to the many questions you have failed to provide on numerous threads.

 

[archaeologist]

Of course, if this unevidenced world-wide voyage really did happen, and was suppressed by anybody who knew about it,

did i say it was unevidenced...no read my words again:

ancients records being what they are, it is highly unlikely any survived to this day. it would be extremely lucky to even get a fragment of such a voyage

we can't be sure what the authorities did in other times or if such voyages were government sanctioned. if they weren't then any discovered documents would be highly suspect due to lack of authenticity

\
i am tired of people misrepresenting what is being said.

Is this supposed to show how the Bible says the Earth is a sphere because all I see is a definition that neither mentions the Bible nor the Earth.

no, it supports the scripture from Isaiah.

when he appointed the foundations of the earth

for your other question, you need to find out what is meant by foundations here. it is possible that he word refers to earth's orbit etc. i haven't looked at it closely so i can't even speculate.

[

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

... i am tired of people misrepresenting what is being said.

...
[

Clearer English from you will avoid misunderstandings.

If you have a clear message, write clearly. Obfuscations will damage clarity.

 

[philadiddle]

I guess since you are still looking into things I'll just wait to you can answer the questions...*twidles thumbs*

 

[gluadys]

ancients records being what they are, it is highly unlikely any survived to this day. it would be extremely lucky to even get a fragment of such a voyage.

look at how the chinese treated Zheng He and his records. we can't be sure what the authorities did in other times or if such voyages were government sanctioned. if they weren't then any discovered documents would be highly suspect due to lack of authenticity.

http://www.1421.tv/index.asp

Interesting. But 1421 is a long time after the Church Fathers.

And in any case sailing around the world only proves sphericity, not heliocentrism.

 

[archaeologist]

Interesting. But 1421 is a long time after the Church Fathers

it was an example.

I guess since you are still looking into things I'll just wait to you can answer the questions.

be specific on what you think i am missing. i am at work and cannot do any research right now.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

it was an example.

...

An exanple of what, pray?