Dissolved minerals and runaway subduction

[laptoppop]

Interesting article. The point I find most fascinating is the author's contention that runaway subduction during a global flood could specifically explain where the dissolved mineral binding agents for sedimentary layers came from -- and why we don't see these processes at work now.

http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5199

 

[Willtor]

How much heat would be released by plate movement at that rate?

 

[KerrMetric]

How much heat would be released by plate movement at that rate?

They invoke a miracle to get rid of the heat.

 

[crawfish]

They invoke a miracle to get rid of the heat.

Dude...please save the sarcasm for the posters that deserve it.

 

[KerrMetric]

It's not sarcasm - they really do invoke miracles. Ask Baumgardner who started this nonsense. He admits to this - in fact he admits to several miracles being necessary.

 

[laptoppop]

How much heat would be released by plate movement at that rate?

Quite a bit - but I would hazard a guess that it would be dwarfed by the temperatures below the plate. The "new" thing for me was the realization that this not only explains much surrounding the flood (including huge amounts of vaporized water shooting into the atmosphere), but that it also supplies the unique dissolved binding minerals needed to make fossil-bearing sedimentary layers. Here are some links to some of the more in-depth papers on the mechanism in general:

http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_jb_runawaysubduction/
http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/catastrplttect_ICC_Baumgardner.pdf
http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_jb_largescaletectonics/

 

[KerrMetric]

On June 16, 1997, a major weekly magazine, US News & World Report published "The Geophysics of God" reporting claims that a sophisticated computer program written at the Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) and "used by geophysicists around the world... proves the Bible is correct" (Chandler 1997). By mid-July NCSE had received copies of letters submitted to a large state textbook commission making similar claims. One letter said that textbooks should include "Flood geology as a theory for mass extinction...[since] this idea is currently being studied in some of the national laboratories in New Mexico"; another letter cited a sophisticated-sounding argument used by geophysicist John Baumgardner, the scientist profiled in the article, claiming that different methods for dating ancient rocks yield different results.

....................................

The whole article with some neat rips of Baumgardners nonsense can be found at:

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/rn...7_miracles_in_creationism_out__12_30_1899.asp

Aha - the wonders of pseudoscience.

 

[KerrMetric]

Methinks laptoppop doesn't have me on ignore despite many times stating he does.

Hmmm - what does that imply in light of the Commandments?

 

[laptoppop]

I'll break my own rule to respond, because once again KerrMetric has called me a liar -- although with clever wording.

I have him on ignore. This means that instead of having to see his posts I get a blue line with a view post link and a message that the message is hidden because he is on ignore. I have specifically said that I might well click on the view post link, but that I would not feel any compulsion to respond to him or any threads he starts.

 

[KerrMetric]

I'll break my own rule to respond, because once again KerrMetric has called me a liar -- although with clever wording.

I have him on ignore. This means that instead of having to see his posts I get a blue line with a view post link and a message that the message is hidden because he is on ignore. I have specifically said that I might well click on the view post link, but that I would not feel any compulsion to respond to him.

Well that's one excuse.

I don't give a rats you know what that you have me on ignore - you're just one more pseudoscientific wannabe in an ocean of them.

Personally - I've nothing against you - but your whole song and dance a couple of weeks ago about how you were ignoring me is funny as heck since you can't resist peaking. Why the pretence?

 

[Willtor]

Quite a bit - but I would hazard a guess that it would be dwarfed by the temperatures below the plate. The "new" thing for me was the realization that this not only explains much surrounding the flood (including huge amounts of vaporized water shooting into the atmosphere), but that it also supplies the unique dissolved binding minerals needed to make fossil-bearing sedimentary layers. Here are some links to some of the more in-depth papers on the mechanism in general:

http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_jb_runawaysubduction/
http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/catastrplttect_ICC_Baumgardner.pdf
http://www.icr.org/research/index/researchp_jb_largescaletectonics/

That's interesting stuff. I couldn't comment on its validity in any of the particulars (I'm not well-educated in such things ), but none of these deal with the energy released into the atmosphere. The second link (the PDF with the figures built in) has pictures of continental separation over a period of a few weeks. That would expose the mantle on a pretty broad scale. If only for that aspect of heating, I'd like to see some numbers as to what that would do to the environment. Are there studies regarding changes in temperature or the types of chemicals and particles in the atmosphere?

 

[laptoppop]

I'll poke around a bit. I know the work is ongoing, but I don't know exactly what is being looked at.

I don't know that the expectation is that there would be exposing of large swaths of the mantle directly. I may be reading it incorrectly - but I think most of the focus is on the place where the plates meet, not on the "back" end of the plates. I don't know what that would be like. Would it be raw mantle, or would it be rock pushed up, or a sliver of mantle rapidly cooled...etc.?

 

[Willtor]

Perhaps. But even if the mantle undergoes rapid cooling, the cooling effect is produced by the diffusion of heat into the environment. I'd be interested to read something on the goings-on of the "back-ends" of the plates as I'd imagine this would be a chief argument against the process (again, not an expert, so my idea of a chief argument really says more about me than it does about geologists).

 

[laptoppop]

I agree. I should also point out that while I find this interesting, and it sounds like it is a plausible description of how some of the processes could interact to cause the global flood and conditions in the flood and in the formation of the fossil record, I see it as just one possibility. If it is disproven, so be it. Today's a zoo -- but I'll be looking around as I'm able to.

 

[Willtor]

Thanks muchly.