At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[frumanchu]

In the old CF we had more deconversions in the Debate area than ever. We also had non-Christians outnumber Christians 2-1 in GA.

In the new CF we had (at least what I know of) 2 conversions to Christianity and more and more Christians are joining the debates in GA.

Imo, the new CF (option 1) is better.

G-d bless,
sc

Again, this points to a flaw in the way Erwin presented the scenarios. I don't think anyone here is advocating going back to exactly the way things were before the latest reforms. There clearly needs to be more interaction between believers and non-believers in an environment that is conducive to ministry. The problem is that while that is accomplished in some measure by the reforms, it is done so at the expense of too many other things. I believe we can accomplish this noble goal and still do it by righteous means.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Tend to agree with you Ty but I broke down and voted option 2 even though I think it was worded very negatively.

 

[GraceInHim]

As far as I am concerned, cover all the bases - have all Mods and staffers show their faith icons - for example, there just may be a protestant who may not want to go to a catholic for counsel/advise (and vice versa).

bolded - I had to hide mine as a Mod on Theology, only because when giving out warnings/infractions to non-catholics; some members would be cruel to me in pm's saying I was prejudice against their faith and that Protestant Mod should handle warnings/infractions to Protestants. Goes both ways.. when a Protestant gave warnings to some Catholics..

this was not uniting among Christians to Christians

hope this has changed for good

 

[openup4christ]

Errrr edit just saw mod hat.

 

[CaDan]

I have been fighting now for along time, even before these changes took place to keep a CF that no longer exists .... I wish it did....

Painfully, I had to actually realize that or maybe I knew it all along but was afraid to accept it....I wanted the Cf I came to 3 and half years ago when I converted and when things here felt like home to me.... Even when OBOB still felt like home. When people were much different and people that were here that are no longer here had such an impact on my spiritual development.

But I can wish and hope for that all I want it will never happen and I can never have those moments in time back....

What I will do now I do not know just getting to this point of actually acknowledging this to myself has been painful enough and depressing ....

Actually I feel stupid right now for not having seen this way before now.... only took me two years. I am kind of slow sometimes and can be stubborn in case some of you haven't yet noticed...

anyway for some reason I just thought I would add that in ... it is just my personal thoughts

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.​

MacBeth Act V, Sc. 5.

To everything there is a season.

 

[nightflight]

edit

 

[JimfromOhio]

I don't see why not. They can use their brains, after all.

You are missing the point. God gave us the brain but, by flesh or In Spirit? If a Christian is not careful and forget. We submit to the Holy Spirit who is the Author of the Bible. Jesus said in John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

 

[Lisa0315]

Obviously the 99.

*sigh*

It chokes me with tears that this is true.

Lisa

 

[Debi1967]

The ultimate aim would be to keep the good things of the recent changes such as moderator transparency, and see if we can formalise the wiki usage a bit more in a way that is acceptable (the wiki collaborative process is still the best process to get consensus for rules and guidelines).

Ok Erwin but then I suggest putting into play some very strong guidelines first before anything else as to how wiki is used what is to be done in wikis

Then rules of engagement in wikis

Then some timelines once rules and guidelines and protocols have been established this way we at least know on this day the rules guidelines and protocols are this for this amount of time

 

[Petunia]

I voted for option 2. With an overhaul of the old rules. Or leave the rules as they are now, other than the allowing of any religion, or nonreligion .. to be in leadership. That should go.

 

[+RubiesFire+]

Jim, I could tell you countless believers who were pulled away from Christ in the non-Christian religion forum by non-Christians promoting their own religion. And that was with Christians mods watching over that area. that is an example of why there should only be Christian staffers. think of what will happen to that area in itself with non-Christian mods..

Sadly, I have seen this already happen.

 

[alaurie]

So, y'all really do not care that a soul is hanging in the balance here?

I guess y'all are right. This ISN'T the place for atheists afterall.

Lisa

I have a very good atheist friend of two years here who has left the site because of the recent disarray. I'm going to get in touch with her about the poll, because she's an option #2 kind of person.

Jesus never encountered a sinner and said "go figure it all out for yourself, and whatever you come up with is cool, fine and dandy." He said, "go and sin no more", and also used a nifty road analogy that went something along these lines... 13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7

As for your question about souls hanging in the balance, IMO, option 1 is a warm-fuzzies-moral-relativism wide gate and these souls with the perception that all is well with "anything goes" are not heading for a happy place.

 

[Lisa0315]

Many souls. Not every seeker is going to respond the same way to these changes. The ones who are honestly interested in becoming a Christian, but need a bit of a nudge (so to speak) are going to be poisoned by the placation they'll receive here.

You are wrong on this, brother. So wrong. It wrings my heart at how wrong this is. One soul at a time, brother.

The Ninety And Nine

There were ninety and nine that safely lay
In the shelter of the fold.
But one was out on the hills away,
Far off from the gates of gold.
Away on the mountains wild and bare.
Away from the tender Shepherd’s care.
Away from the tender Shepherd’s care.
“Lord, Thou hast here Thy ninety and nine;
Are they not enough for Thee?”
But the Shepherd made answer: “This of Mine
Has wandered away from Me;
And although the road be rough and steep,
I go to the desert to find My sheep,
I go to the desert to find My sheep.”
But none of the ransomed ever knew
How deep were the waters crossed;
Nor how dark was the night the Lord passed through
Ere He found His sheep that was lost.
Out in the desert He heard its cry,
Sick and helpless and ready to die;
Sick and helpless and ready to die.
“Lord, whence are those blood drops all the way
That mark out the mountain’s track?”
“They were shed for one who had gone astray
Ere the Shepherd could bring him back.”
“Lord, whence are Thy hands so rent and torn?”
“They are pierced tonight by many a thorn;
They are pierced tonight by many a thorn.”
And all through the mountains, thunder riven
And up from the rocky steep,
There arose a glad cry to the gate of Heaven,
“Rejoice! I have found My sheep!”
And the angels echoed around the throne,
“Rejoice, for the Lord brings back His own!
Rejoice, for the Lord brings back His own!”

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

Remember, you were a stranger in the Land of Egypt.

exactly. and it wasnt too too long ago. the memories are still with me

but, we need to realize that Christians and non-Christians are not going to look at the world the same way at all. there is no way to deny that and i dont think we should try to push that under the rug.

if i went to mod at an athiest site, i would have to mod based on biblical principals because that is now such a big part of who I am. I can't seperate myself from it. Just like a non-Christian here. we can't expect them to mod with a biblical understanding behind their decisions.

 

[A New Dawn]

I have been fighting now for along time, even before these changes took place to keep a CF that no longer exists .... I wish it did....

Painfully, I had to actually realize that or maybe I knew it all along but was afraid to accept it....I wanted the Cf I came to 3 and half years ago when I converted and when things here felt like home to me.... Even when OBOB still felt like home. When people were much different and people that were here that are no longer here had such an impact on my spiritual development.

But I can wish and hope for that all I want it will never happen and I can never have those moments in time back....

What I will do now I do not know just getting to this point of actually acknowledging this to myself has been painful enough and depressing ....

Actually I feel stupid right now for not having seen this way before now.... only took me two years. I am kind of slow sometimes and can be stubborn in case some of you haven't yet noticed...

anyway for some reason I just thought I would add that in ... it is just my personal thoughts

You know what's funny? The CF that I think of in recalling my fondest memories is, believe it or not, CF when I was confined to UTD, putting up with all the crap I had to put up with there. From the time before I became a "real" Christian. Know why? Because that was a time of intense learning and new realizations. When God finally revealed truth to me, it was exhilarating!

I doubt I will ever feel the same about CF again. But memories are sweet!

 

[Debi1967]

To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.​

MacBeth Act V, Sc. 5.

To everything there is a season.

Thank you my friend

 

[Stormy]

For the record, I do not believe this is true. I do not believe that a single Christian has been swayed away from Christ because of the promotions of other religions here. Take from this what you wish. I do not believe it.

Lisa

Just because you stick your fingers in your ears and yell....na na nana.. Does not make it go away.

I have been in apologetics long enough to see several Christians turn away from God. Faith can not always with-stand the constant hits from the logical atheist. And I am talking about Christians of strong faith. Two of them were moderators when I first came here. These are people who have been Christians for years and now they are not.

So maybe we will win a soul.. but how many will we lose? Not everyone can endure the rigors of apologetics. Not everyone should have too.

 

[Hentenza]

Good question.

One possible solution that has been proposed already is to run 2 sites, one that is open, another that is Christians-only, based on the same membership data.

It's entirely possible. The previous version of CF is very similar, with 2 sections, one open and one close. The aim of the new system was to establish something like that but with members agreeing to do it themselves, but it hasn't worked out over the past month.

The ultimate aim would be to keep the good things of the recent changes such as moderator transparency, and see if we can formalise the wiki usage a bit more in a way that is acceptable (the wiki collaborative process is still the best process to get consensus for rules and guidelines).

There is no question that CF has 2 large groups of membership together, and to be honest, that is fantastic, because not many sites on the Internet are able to bring these 2 groups of people together into a place for discussion.

It is possible that Option 1 and Option 2 can be combined together into a middle ground of Option 3 since this is what the poll is really showing us (and I had hoped that the current CF setup would have been the Option 3, since it has elements of both, but apparently not). So the question is, if that's the answer (and I'm not saying it is at this stage), what would Option 3 look like?

It's a question that's does not have an easy answer.

These are the ones that come to mind right away. I am sure I will think of others later. So, maybe we ought to set up a place for that.

Keep:
Name
Transparency
Democracy
Mod nominations

Don't keep
Ability to change faith icon at will
Non-Christian debate in Christian main sections

Add
Sub-forums within the Christian sections for questions and debate for non-Christians. Maybe 1 sub-forum for questions and one for debate


Maybe other folks might want to add to this list.

 

[Debi1967]

You know what's funny? The CF that I think of in recalling my fondest memories is, believe it or not, CF when I was confined to UTD, putting up with all the crap I had to put up with there. From the time before I became a "real" Christian. Know why? Because that was a time of intense learning and new realizations. When God finally revealed truth to me, it was exhilarating!

I doubt I will ever feel the same about CF again. But memories are sweet!

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

For the record, I do not believe this is true. I do not believe that a single Christian has been swayed away from Christ because of the promotions of other religions here. Take from this what you wish. I do not believe it.

Lisa

you can ask other ex-debate area mods and admins. the latest one (that i know of) was a well known Catholic.