A new CF, an old vision (4)

[pgp_protector]

You personally have no desire to cause problems. *Most* of the non-Christians here have no desire to cause problems. However some do. A community-created rule will have little bearing on their desire to disrupt and inform all Christians that they're delusional.

Apologetics shouldn't be forfeited in any way.

Non-Christians should NOT be treated as lower class members.

However, nor should Christians. And as things stand, a forum whose mission is now purely relatavistic, Christians who believe the Bible to the inerrant Word will be treated as such. This is unacceptable.

And your response still doesn't deal with the issue of vulnerable and baby Christians. They are a very real concern. Just as much as providing outreach to non-Christians.

"Vulnerable babies" shouldn't be wondering the internet unescorted anyways.

My Child is vulnerable, that's why I don't let them just roam anywhere. They can't even visit CF without me being right there.

 

[Lisa0315]

Would you have a problem with a non-Christian theist going into a prayer forum and saying they were praying for someone?

This happened to me in real life once. At first, I was a little disturbed that someone was praying for me to another god. I finally decided that while they do not know my Lord, my Lord knows me, and will hear and honor any prayer of good will towards me. Pure speculation, nothing Bibical about it, just my opinion, and I certainly could be wrong about it. I just do not feel that my belief calls for being rude in any situation.

However, in your case, I would say, "Thank You". Then, I would attempt to discuss your beliefs with you and why and how my God can be known to you. I would see it as an opportunity to present the gospel to you.

Lisa

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Maybe you're right, but it probably wouldn't happen often (most non-Christians aren't trolls ), and would be quickly deleted by moderators, because it would be clearly against the rule

But, sweetie, the damage would already have been done. Rahter than even allow for the possibility, why not have the safeguard in place?

The message being deleted, even the member being banned without question... neither would undo the damage done to the person who asked for advice, and/or prayer. That *has* to be a concern, or we are remiss in protecting baby Christians, and we need to do that

Well, that is true, but I was just thinking that a new member would soon learn that that kind of thing doesn't fly around here. This is not Fundies Say the Darndest Things.

I think that your experience is something that we all need to consider. It may be, GM, that God allowed this so that it would bring it to the forefront, and remind us that we do have vulnerable people that need to be protected.

If Erwin refuses to allow any section closed to non-Christians, what do you think we can do? What is an alternate to having a closed section? Are there any other options?

Lisa

I really don't think so. I think Erwin - on this one issue - needs to step up and reconsider. There are other issues that people can argue if they wish, but this, to me, feels like a priority.

We can't focus solely on non-Christians. We still need to have *some* focus on Christians with fears, doubts and questions. It's so important.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

I have, unfortunately, seen it happen before. I don't think the majority would, but it's very very dangerous when it does happen.

Hmm... well, rest assured, few Christians would refuse to advise seeking medical advice. You're inadvertantly polarizing this, as if only non-Christians would advise someone see a doctor. Spiritual warfare certainly doesn't require a non-Christian perspective in order to maintain a "real" one.

Well... to be blunt, Erwin has already stated that this is how it's going to be and opened up the forums. Right now, we need to focus on what we can do to help and protect people. It might be a little more difficult to have to draft rules, but functionally speaking, if they're done well enough, the results should actually be even better than when the areas were CO. I know you wouldn't tell me that Christians never attack their own, for instance.

I appreciate what you're saying, but just as Erwin altered the entire site, he can just as easily undo this one aspect.

And, no, Christians are not better people than non-Christians. Our behaviour to one another and to others is sometimes appalling.

 

[Brimshack]

In what sense would a prayer for a person of another faith actually damage them? I suppose you could assume that prayers to other gods or of other faiths actually do harm you, but that seems an awful questionable assumption. There is a point at which some of this becomes a rather passive aggressive control strategy. I don't think that you, your soul, or your faith are that fragile, and I don't think that of a "baby Christian" is either.

In life people will sometimes pray for you, and some of them willl pray in ways you do not approve and/or to gods you do not approve. You can either accept the gesture of good will, or you can fall apart at the seems. But if such a kindness is actually damaging to you, then you are giving others far too much power over your own well being.

 

[baruch4]

my ignore list is adding people too fast!!! am i still in a christian forum??? too bad. erwin, help!!! i prefer u cancel the changes n go back to where we were before. i dont want to waste my time to read so many rubbish here n keeping ignoring people n cannot do anything else i cud do as before!!!

 

[GreenMunchkin]

In what sense would a prayer for a person of another faith actually damage them? I suppose you could assume that prayers to other gods or of other faiths actually do harm you, but that seems an awful questionable assumption. There is a point at which some of this becomes a rather passive aggressive control strategy. I don't think that you, your soul, or your faith are that fragile, and I don't think that of a "baby Christian" is either.

I didn't say it would damage them. I said it's their choice. We are taught that to pray to someone who isn't God is idol worship.

This is not remotely a control strategy... and, in fact, I think perhaps your post was. The entire forum is open. That's fine. People who wish to receive advice and prayer solely from other Christians are entitled to make that decision.

You know very little about my faith, or how fragile it is sometimes. You know nothing about the faith of all people who have just become Christian, so that line of discussion is sort of moot.

As an atheist, would you ask a Christian for scipturally-based advice? If an atheist were to go to a secular online advice site, would they want scriptures?

In life people will sometimes pray for you, and some of them willl pray in ways you do not approve and/or to gods you do not approve. You can either accept the gesture of good will, or you can fall apart at the seems. But if such a kindness is actually damaging to you, then you are giving others far too much power over your own well being.

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but what you wrote appears to be rhetoric.

Kindly stop implying I've encouraged the rejection of good will or kindness from others. Kindness is to be aplauded. However, if someone does not wish to be prayed for by someone who isn't a Christian, that is their choice.

Again, at no point did I say it would be damaging.

Further, this is a side issue. And one that stops with "If they don't want multi-faith prayer, that's the end of it." The main issue is this is, in name, a Christian forum. If Christians need Christian advice, prayer, or support, they should be able to receive it without impunity, and without being accused of rejecting the good will of others.

 

[CerberusQuatros]

my ignore list is adding people too fast!!! am i still in a christian forum??? too bad. erwin, help!!! i prefer u cancel the changes n go back to where we were before. i dont want to waste my time to read so many rubbish here n keeping ignoring people n cannot do anything else i cud do as before!!!

Be sure to put me on there, I want to be in good company, after all.

Why do you not want to hear us, are we stupid? Of the Devil? Are we evil?

Why are you afraid of us, and what we might say to you.

And why the hell can't all you people who feel like him understand that when we non-Christians read your posts, and get a whiff of your holier-than-thou attitude, you just become another example of all that we dislike and distrust about Christians.

 

[pgp_protector]

Be sure to put me on there, I want to be in good company, after all.

Why do you not want to hear us, are we stupid? Of the Devil? Are we evil?

Why are you afraid of us, and what we might say to you.

And why the hell can't all you people who feel like him understand that when we non-Christians read your posts, and get a whiff of your holier-than-thou attitude, you just become another example of all that we dislike and distrust about Christians.

Don't worry you won't be going on my ignore list any time soon if ever*

And no, you're not stupid, or the Devil, nor evil.



*Depending on you not becoming someone that acts like a royal pain.

 

[baruch4]

does light have anything to do with darkness??? the result of a single sin is death without the blood of jesus!!! n the laws are there in the bible which the non christians dont believe at all!

 

[baruch4]

the bible says very clearly the world wl hate u bcz of ME. alleluia.

 

[baruch4]

the christian forums cannot be "open" to non-christians. christian authority must be maintained in the church or a cyber church on cf. anybody agrees pls pm erwin! tks.
p.s. as before, non christians can ask, fellow, but not debate nor teach. they can debate or teach in non-christian forums. IT'S THEIR OWN CHOICE WHETHER TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN N JOIN THE CHURCH! why we must sacrifice our own place of brotherhood to please the non-believers?? what a joke. actually the mission forums are also part of a cyber church, but these are special places for reaching out. the logic before was perfect, why change??? btw, it's very funny to imagine to change any culture overnight!!!

 

[Lisa0315]

But, sweetie, the damage would already have been done. Rahter than even allow for the possibility, why not have the safeguard in place?

The message being deleted, even the member being banned without question... neither would undo the damage done to the person who asked for advice, and/or prayer. That *has* to be a concern, or we are remiss in protecting baby Christians, and we need to do that

I really don't think so. I think Erwin - on this one issue - needs to step up and reconsider. There are other issues that people can argue if they wish, but this, to me, feels like a priority.

We can't focus solely on non-Christians. We still need to have *some* focus on Christians with fears, doubts and questions. It's so important.

I agree that it is very, very important. Minstering to each other is just as important as the lost souls out there. However, why are we just worried about non-Christians giving bad advice? It was not atheists that hurt me, but other Christians. It was other Christians that drove me away, and personally, I think that baby Christians will be far more likely to be hurt by US than THEM.

There was once a guy who came on here and got saved shortly thereafter. I PM'd him and told him "Run, do not walk out of here!" I told him to come back when he was well studied and more mature in the faith. That was not because of atheists on this board.

Lisa

 

[pgp_protector]

the christian forums cannot be "open" to non-christians. christian authority must be maintained in the church or a cyber church on cf. anybody agrees pls pm erwin! tks.
p.s. as before, non christians can ask, fellow, but not debate nor teach. they can debate or teach in non-christian forums. IT'S THEIR OWN CHOICE WHETHER TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN N JOIN THE CHURCH! why we must sacrifice our own place of brotherhood to please the non-believers?? what a joke. actually the mission forums are also part of a cyber church, but these are special places for reaching out. the logic before was perfect, why change??? btw, it's very funny to imagine to change any culture overnight!!!

If you consider CF a church, are you paying your tithe to the CF Church ?

 

[Lisa0315]

If you consider CF a church, are you paying your tithe to the CF Church ?

My tithe was paid for me. I have no idea who, but I made a comment about site supporters a few days ago, and how my situtation had changed financially...The next thing I know, some very kind person apparantly paid for my site supporter status. God knows who they are and someday I hope to Thank them. It was a random act of kindness...

Anyway, not that I addressed your point...Why would we expect non-believers to tithe?

Lisa

 

[pgp_protector]

My tithe was paid for me. I have no idea who, but I made a comment about site supporters a few days ago, and how my situtation had changed financially...The next thing I know, some very kind person apparantly paid for my site supporter status. God knows who they are and someday I hope to Thank them. It was a random act of kindness...

Anyway, not that I addressed your point...Why would we expect non-believers to tithe?

Lisa

How can someone else pay 10% of your income ? (If I'm correct the Tithe is 10% of your gross income is it not ?)

 

[moonkitty]

My tithe was paid for me. I have no idea who, but I made a comment about site supporters a few days ago, and how my situtation had changed financially...The next thing I know, some very kind person apparantly paid for my site supporter status. God knows who they are and someday I hope to Thank them. It was a random act of kindness...

Anyway, not that I addressed your point...Why would we expect non-believers to tithe?

Lisa

Whenever I am invited, and go, to a church service, I almost always put something into the collection plate if it is passed around. It would seem rude not too. And even if I do not believe in a God, that doesn’t mean that I do not see the charitable works that some churches do.

 

[RedTulipMom]

is it me or are the rules starting to look just like the old rules. everytime i look the list gets longer and longer and more more complicated. So much for simplyfying. Why does there need to be a rule for every little thing? its annoying.

 

[baruch4]

i have real church in life. the bible says u must tithe to a cyber church? why u people add to the bible? but a christian forum is a cyber church. church is nothing else but where christians gether. we gether here cyberly, so it's a cyber church.

 

[bill'swife]

is it me or are the rules starting to look just like the old rules. everytime i look the list gets longer and longer and more more complicated. So much for simplyfying. Why does there need to be a rule for every little thing? its annoying.

Because when you give ppl an inch they take a mile!!!