Pornography doesn’t exploit.

[k]

It is possible to appreciate the beauty of a woman without lusting. Comes with maturity and learning to be master of your domain.

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

Yeah it is. But not to the extent of nudity.

 

[Velo Princesse]

Promise,
I always hated it when people would say "when I was your age" to me but I am, nevertheless, forced to say it to you. At 20, I was a newlywed in a strict church. I knew that my husband looked at other women and it hurt me very badly. Eventually, when I left the church, I realized that it was perfectly normal and that I was hurting our relationship by making him feel guilty for something that is normal and healthy.
You are obviously not in exactly the same situation because your husband is helping to perpetuate the belief that he doesn't look at other women. Since you've only been married for 6 months it is possible that he doesn't right now. The thing is, no church- no matter how strict- can change that we are animals and we do look at each other sexually. Eventually, you will reach the point in your marriage where you will have to accept that he is human and can still be faithful or he will be driven into a lifetime of misery and guilt.
His acting the way he does when other women are around is proof that he is not immune. If he were, he would not have to divert his eyes because he wouldn't notice them at all. He looks away because he has to in order to feel the way he thinks he should.
I am very confident that you will not allow what I'm saying to sink it. I just hope that you will try to listen to someone who has been there. I have been young and newly married thinking that if he looked at other women he was cheating on me and would go to Hell. That belief hurt us badly and it is only through sheer determination and acceptance of one another that I am happily married now. Neither you nor your church nor his denial can make him other than what he is- a person who is susceptible to all human instincts.

 

[LovesEnduringPromise]

He turns away not because hes tempted...because he knows its wrong to even see it. You just dont get it...I know my husband....we are different from alot of people. We have GOD in our lives...and when you have God you can do anything...and get rid of any bad thought.

 

[MezzaMorta]

Nope, I know alot of people who work in the industry. They do it because they want to and have made alot of money out of it.

 

[Mling]

I would not go so far as to say that pornography is, overall or by definition, exploitative. I'm sure there is some that is but, barring kidnapping, rape, slavery or other obvious criminal acts, I don't see it.

I have no doubt that many porn models hate they are doing and are depressed about it. But they stay. Repeat: They stay. They make the decision to stay. If they aren't willing to flip burgers, or become a substitute teacher (bad pay but flexible schedule), and they stay in a job they hate, that is not exploitative. It is called "golden handcuffs"--I can't stand what I'm doing, but I'm not willing to make the sacrifice it would take to stop doing it.

If you hate your own choices, make different choices. If your priorities are out of whack, reprioritize. But neither problem is due to exploitation.

And if you are being trapped in a de facto slavery scheme, like "You must live here, and your rent will come out of your pay, and you're being fined for this that and the other, so now you are in debt to us, so you have to keep working here and living here, and will continue to incur fines...." then yes. Obviously, that is exploitation.

Enter: The Internet, though. I think a whole lot of todays porn is made by amateurs---people setting up a camara and doing what they want because they want to do it. Plus, word travels fast, now, and "communities" aren't restricted to geographic areas. I suspect (though I have no reason to really know) that a porn company that abuses its models becomes well known for it pretty quickly and soon has no models to abuse.

 

[Skaloop]

He turns away not because hes tempted...because he knows its wrong to even see it.

But it's not wrong to see it! It's perfectly acceptable. He (or religion, or the church, whatever) has brainwashed him to think that it's wrong to see it, and that it's wrong to react lustfully to it, and yet because of the fact that he is a male, he cannot help but react lustfully at some times. Because he erroneously thinks that his thoughts are wrong, he is obviously averting his gaze out of guilt.

You just dont get it...I know my husband

You just don't get it...I know what it's like to be a straight man in his twenties.

....we are different from alot of people. We have GOD in our lives...and when you have God you can do anything...and get rid of any bad thought.

It's by having God in your lives that it is even considered wrong in the first place! Without God, it wouldn't be wrong, and he wouldn't be having bad thoughts that needed rid of in the first place.

 

[MezzaMorta]

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[FONT=&quot] There is no greater evil in America than that of pornography

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[FONT=&quot] Murder? Racism? Abortion?................... that’s for arguments sake agreeing that porn is evil in the first place. [/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot] Pornography basically did not exist until the invention of the camera came along.

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[FONT=&quot] Someone’s never seen ancient Greek and roman erotic art….[/FONT]

 

[MezzaMorta]

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Would you want your children to watch it?

Won’t bother me, saves me having to explain it all to them.

[FONT=&quot] t generates more than $12 billion in revenue annually. In 1997

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[FONT=&quot] God bless the free market. [/FONT]
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so when you get married you wouldnt care if your husband looked at it?

Substitute wife…. And nope. I’m not so insecure that I would be jealous of an image.

We dont go anywhere that promotes immodesty.

Must be hard never leavening your basement.

My husband has not lied to me.

How do you know?

why cant you just believe that their are guys out there that dont lust after other women

Because unless he is gay he is like all other of us men.

He throws out bad magazines he finds at work that are other peoples

That’s an rude thing to do.

he turns away when a girl walks in w/ short shorts....or anything

Take him to a doctor, even my Gay friends check out girls when they walk by… be it just to see what they are wearing… but still.

 

[k]

There are different kinds of porn so it depends what it's depicting-bdsm stuff explicitly perpetuates the subjection nd subjugation of women. The ironic part is when the women performing the acts say they arent being exploited because they make a lot of money. As if profit margin trumps autonomy and social justice.

 

[Mling]

[FONT=&quot] Someone’s never seen ancient Greek and roman erotic art….[/FONT]

Or...say...Venus of Willendorf. According to Wikipedia, it was probably carved between 24,000 and 22,000 BC.

 

[k]

Sexuality is too often repressed in certain Christian camps as if sex was a horribledirtyclosetbathroomhushhush activity. However, the majority of porn isnt about sex, but power. That is the problem.

 

[Skaloop]

There are different kinds of porn so it depends what it's depicting-bdsm stuff explicitly perpetuates the subjection nd subjugation of women. The ironic part is when the women performing the acts say they arent being exploited because they make a lot of money. As if profit margin trumps autonomy and social justice.

Most of the true BDSM porn I have seen has a woman dominating a man. I don't see what that has to do with the subjugation of women.

 

[k]

One can do a quick search and easily see it is women being dominated much more than men. To address your point, even in those cases the women are still under the man's control. Like lap dances and those icky noody bars.

 

[Mling]

There are different kinds of porn so it depends what it's depicting-bdsm stuff explicitly perpetuates the subjection nd subjugation of women. The ironic part is when the women performing the acts say they arent being exploited because they make a lot of money. As if profit margin trumps autonomy and social justice.

Autonomy and social justice? I'm less concerned about BDSM porn than vanilla. First off, there's plenty of women dominating men (or women dominating women--perhaps most popular of all), but I rarely hear that that's subjugating men. Second, I think that people get into that more than vanilla porn because they truly want to and because they enjoy BDSM, themselves. That is the definition of autonomy. Seriously, there is a fairly reasonable line of logic "I can't do anything else, but I'm kind of hot so maybe I'll see if I can get into porn," but "I can't do anything else, so I guess I'll go let myself get flogged senseless"? If you're going to go the "porn just for the money" route, why do that, of all things? I can see maybe crossdressing, crushing bugs, a little slap and tickle, smoking, posing on inflated balloons, dressing up in cartoon animal suits....but this seems like one of a few fetishes that people just are not going to participate in unless they like it. Think about how much money you would want in exchange for learning, up close and personal, the difference between a flogger, a whip, and a slapper. Think the average porn model makes anywhere near that?

(Again, I recognize the possibility of truly criminal porn rings, in which people might be kidnapped and tortured. I'm not talking about that.)

As for social justice...I don't see how it fits here at all. In fact, I'll admit to enjoying BDSM porn (occasionally), and nearly every website I've seen goes out of their way to show that everybody is there of their own free will. I can think of a few, off the top of my head, that were started and are run and managed by the submissive.

 

[k]

Are men and women equal in our culture? One thing we need to avoid is confusing the microscopic for the macroscopic.

 

[Mling]

Are men and women equal in our culture? One thing we need to avoid is confusing the microscopic for the macroscopic.

While I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that, I'll point out that there is a tendency for people to leap on anything that portrays a woman being treated "badly" as promting violence against women, or being patriarchal, chauvanistic or whatever, even if men are treated exactly the same way.

I heard of one case, in England I think, in which a company had some advertisements play on the phrase "brand spanking new," by showing models on their hands and knees with a bit of pink showing around their underwear (obviously photoshopped, and without any suggestion that it was non-consensual. I think the models were faintly smiling). They caught hell because the image was supposedly anti-female and all that stuff. But they had two separate ads--identical except that one had a male model and the other female, and the two ads were, I believe, always shown together. They didn't hear anything about how demeaning it was for a man to be shown in that state.

I don't buy the argument that something is demeaning specifically for women, when it portrays men and women equally.
Now, granted, usually a particular site will focus on men or women, hetero or homo, male dom/female sub or vice versa; but taken as a whole, there is no dearth of any of those categories within the porn world. And, personally, I've seen/read some Female Dom/male sub erotica and I find a lot of it revolting--much more cruel, from what I've seen, than the opposite. Not that I'd argue that it shouldn't exist...but...yeah.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

[My husband] throws out bad magazines he finds at work that are other peoples

That's called theft. Your husband is a thief.

And bearing in mind that he looks away when a woman in shorts comes into the room, I imagine he must find a lot of magazines to be 'bad'. He's lucky I don't work with him, I'd be telling my boss about his thieving activities and he'd be out on his ear.

 

[Skaloop]

One can do a quick search and easily see it is women being dominated much more than men. To address your point, even in those cases the women are still under the man's control. Like lap dances and those icky noody bars.

Have you ever had a lap dance? In any respectable establishment, the only control the man has is surrendering his money. He so much as breathes on her wrong and she can call over a collection of large surly gentlemen that will have him out on his rear.

Have you ever participated in any BDSM activity? In any respectable BDSM relationship, the sub maintains final control over what happens. The sub places the limits. The sub can stop it at any time with a single word.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

How is porn not exploitation. There are naked people either in print or on screen performing acts and showing themselves. If that isn't exploitation, then I don't know what is.

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