Pro-Life Protesting Behavior

[SallyNow]

Saturday is abortion day at this abortion clinic. So is Tuesday and Thursday. This is a huge metro area and there are plenty of hospitals and doctor's offices around for the people to go to. We see the abortionist come and go and he does not have time in the couple of hours he is there to give real exams. Twenty-thirtyfive women show up on any given Saturday and the abortionist shows up and stays at most three hours.
About 99.9% of people going into that clinic are going in for an abortion (one exception was the young lady who thought her baby was dead).

You will have to excuse my ignorance. I do not know of such places that only perform abortions. I've not lived in the USA and therefore have not experienced the American health care system. .

However, I can say that the assumption that an abortion is a really quick procedure is not always correct. I can also say that a really quick exam - say, for a PAP smear - can take as little as -10 minutes. In a three hour period, 25 women can easily be seen, especially if the exam is done mostly by the nurse.

The assumption that there are "plenty of hospitals and doctor's offices around", so therefore a woman would rather go there, is not supportable. I know I'd rather go to a woman's clinic than an ER. And from what I do know of America's health-care system, not every person can go to every clinic, due to HMO and insurance restrictions.

And what is "an abortionist"? It's not a medical or scientific label. It's not a medical specialty.

And my answer still has not be answered: does this clinic work soley on abortion cases? Or is it a full-service OBGYN clinic that happens to also perform abortions?

They might not "need" to be bothered by us but so what if they are? They do not have to stop their car to talk to us if they are not interested.

I'm going to try to be diplomatic here. I've been to the doctor when I've been worried about results. A bunch of protesters outside a clinic would probably lead me to snap. I know many friends of all ages who have had to go to the doctor's for serious reasons and who would also be harmed by protesters outside the clinic.

Am I to believe that no one goes to this clinic by bike, bus, walking?

You know, I ran into a young lady who stopped to talk to us at the clinic last fall the other day. She chose to not kill her baby. We took her to the crisis pregnancy center, gave her a beautiful gift basket and a couple dozen roses. She is seven months pregnant and she gave both of us (me and my sister) a big hug and a thank you and told us that she was carrying a boy.

That's wonderful. Mind you, had she had better options, had she known that adoption was a good option, and that her baby would not go into a bad foster care system, she may have not even ever considered abortion.

I don't get why you would give her roses. A more useful gift would have been maternity clothes... a Baskin Robbins gift card... roses just seem rather showy.

Useless?

Perhaps you read the story (on this thread) of the young lady who was wrongly informed that her baby was dead. We stopped her from going in to abort her baby and she was simply thrilled that her baby was not dead

Malpractice, sadly, happens. Patients who are victims of malpractice need legal care and medical help, not propaganda.

Also, why would a woman be going in to a walk-in abortion-only clinic for an incomplete miscarriage? She wasn't going in for an abortion - she was going in for a incomplete miscarriage. She would need a full OBGYN workup for a incomplete miscarriage, something a place that only provides abortions would not provide.

Useless? Tragic???

What would have been tragic was if these two (and many others) had gone through with their abortions.

What is tragic is that so many women do kill their unborn children.

The centers we refer these women to provide this info.

Yes, it is useless and tragic to stand outside a medical clinic and cause stress to those going inside, not knowing why they are going. It is tragic to expect that a total stranger to a patient will know better than the doctor what that patient needs.

No ones future economic needs are assured. These women (and men - not all have absent fathers). There is government and Church assistence for the truly needy. Many of the women have family support.

Some of these women will have no family support, no health insurance. They have the option of having the child and giving him or her up to a shaky, scary foster care system (many of these women may have gone through the system themselves, hence having no family) and now they are being guilted into a decision, rather than having true support.

American government support is often far from sufficient unless a person already has family support. Not everyone is a member of the Catholic Church.

If we killed everone who did not have an their entire life needs provided for there woud be very few, if any, people alive.

And there's that anti-abortion attitude! It's easier to protest and hand out flyers than to assure that everyone has access to medical care, that the foster care system is solid, that all public schools are safe, that middle-class families can afford to adopt children rather than be foster families who have little control over how long a child stays!

Lobbying for better medical coverage for all takes more time than protesting! Getting a Master's degree in psychology and a teacher's certificate so one can work in inner-city schools takes work! Helping middle-class families raise money to adopt takes a screening process, time, energy, and organization! Fixing the foster care system requires actually fostering kids, and also getting involved in the politics!

Protesting at clinics gets all those "good work" endorphines going without actually helping the "unborn babies" once they are born. Handing out flyers is even hands-on!

I doubt anyone in this discussion does yell and scream and harass women who are going into medical clinics, but I do think that it is another level in the "good works"-without-actually-doing-much feel-good feeling!

She told us.


The abortion mill is right across the street from a forest preserve and a lovely river. The only polllution is the booze bottles left by the homeless guys who camp out there. They talk to us and they are very pro-life.

Giving out pamphlets that people don't read is useless waste. And just think... if protesters instead worked for 4 hours a week and gave that money to education funds, those homeless men could go to trades courses and get jobs! And a PO box could help those men get jobs, as a person needs an address to get a job.

You know - I think that he turnarounds we have makes our Saturyday morning time very well spent. So apparently did the young mother of the little boy we ran into the the other day.

So would be spending time with children born additcted to cocaine (many women go for abortions after they realize they are pregnant and have been taking harmful drugs). Standing outside a medical clinic is fine -whatever floats your boat - as long as no one is harassed, hurt, yelled at, or assumed to be a "bad woman".

If she was going for a D&C then she wasn't going in for an abortion and has nothing to do with this debate unless you believe the first doctor was lying just so she would abort???

Medical malpractice and doctor error is an entirely different matter.

Yes, it is a different matter. It doesn't make sense to me that a doctor would send a woman who has had an incomplete miscarriage to a place that only performs abortions and does not perform OBGYN services. In fact, it would make no medical sense at all. A doctor who would do such a thing should probably be investigated.

 

[Texas Lynn]

And I assure you that many people are working to end the killings.

There are certainly no "killings" involved in abortion but we welcome your witness if you seek to end war, poverty, the death penalty, AIDS, and disease. That would be a true "pro-life" stance rhather than just harassing vulnerable women.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Read again please... I will capitalize for ease of reading... IF THE CHILD CAN BE SAFELY BIRTHED THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR THE ABORTION. If a doctor can show that the child can not be safely birthed (a rare situation and it would have to be a medical reason not a social reason) then you would have a arguement. But I said SAFELY, which assumes the doctor has determined that it could be safely birthed.

That is for the medical professionals to determine, not foolish legislators and fring groups with graphic picket signs.

Have you ever heard the risks from a abortion procedure...

Pretty standard stuff same as any invasive medical procedure. Obviously phrased out of context in an attempt to scare vulnerable women. Despicable.

I know a woman whom has a abortion is 6 time more likely to kill themselves

It'd be interesting to see peer reviews of that, because how could they correlate such? You can't administer a questionnaire after a suicide. Sound like more misleading propaganda from the forces of repression.

Sounds like your legal abortions are killing more women then the "back alley" abortions ever did.

Don't believe the hype. The people putting out that do not have the interests of women at heart. They should be ashamed.

 

[Hunterkirk]

There are certainly no "killings" involved in abortion but we welcome your witness if you seek to end war, poverty, the death penalty, AIDS, and disease. That would be a true "pro-life" stance rhather than just harassing vulnerable women.

I am sorry you are wrong.

I am also sorry that I must repeat myself for a third time... IF THE CHILD CAN BE SAFELY BIRTHED THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR THE ABORTION. If a doctor can show that the child can not be safely birthed (a rare situation and it would have to be a medical reason not a social reason) then you would have a arguement. But I said SAFELY, which assumes the doctor has determined that it could be safely birthed. Simply consenting to do the abortion does not make it a medical reason for doing it.

 

[Texas Lynn]

You will have to excuse my ignorance. I do not know of such places that only perform abortions. I've not lived in the USA and therefore have not experienced the American health care system.

Such places exists primarily in the imaginations of the extremists.

And what is "an abortionist"? It's not a medical or scientific label. It's not a medical specialty.

Of course not; it's an epithet created by the forces of repression.

I'm going to try to be diplomatic here. I've been to the doctor when I've been worried about results. A bunch of protesters outside a clinic would probably lead me to snap. I know many friends of all ages who have had to go to the doctor's for serious reasons and who would also be harmed by protesters outside the clinic.

Exactly why such protests cannot be defended as moral.

Also, why would a woman be going in to a walk-in abortion-only clinic for an incomplete miscarriage? She wasn't going in for an abortion - she was going in for a incomplete miscarriage. She would need a full OBGYN workup for a incomplete miscarriage, something a place that only provides abortions would not provide.

More holes in the rumormongering and fearmongering.

And there's that anti-abortion attitude! It's easier to protest and hand out flyers than to assure that everyone has access to medical care, that the foster care system is solid, that all public schools are safe, that middle-class families can afford to adopt children rather than be foster families who have little control over how long a child stays!

Lobbying for better medical coverage for all takes more time than protesting! Getting a Master's degree in psychology and a teacher's certificate so one can work in inner-city schools takes work! Helping middle-class families raise money to adopt takes a screening process, time, energy, and organization! Fixing the foster care system requires actually fostering kids, and also getting involved in the politics!

Protesting at clinics gets all those "good work" endorphines going without actually helping the "unborn babies" once they are born. Handing out flyers is even hands-on!

I doubt anyone in this discussion does yell and scream and harass women who are going into medical clinics, but I do think that it is another level in the "good works"-without-actually-doing-much feel-good feeling!

Giving out pamphlets that people don't read is useless waste. And just think... if protesters instead worked for 4 hours a week and gave that money to education funds, those homeless men could go to trades courses and get jobs! And a PO box could help those men get jobs, as a person needs an address to get a job.

So would be spending time with children born additcted to cocaine (many women go for abortions after they realize they are pregnant and have been taking harmful drugs). Standing outside a medical clinic is fine -whatever floats your boat - as long as no one is harassed, hurt, yelled at, or assumed to be a "bad woman".

Yes, it is a different matter. It doesn't make sense to me that a doctor would send a woman who has had an incomplete miscarriage to a place that only performs abortions and does not perform OBGYN services. In fact, it would make no medical sense at all. A doctor who would do such a thing should probably be investigated.

You've correctly deconstructed the attitude and effect of the outside-clinic-harranguers. Thank you.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I am sorry you are wrong.

Prove it.

I am also sorry that I must repeat myself for a third time... IF THE CHILD CAN BE SAFELY BIRTHED THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR THE ABORTION. If a doctor can show that the child can not be safely birthed (a rare situation and it would have to be a medical reason not a social reason) then you would have a arguement. But I said SAFELY, which assumes the doctor has determined that it could be safely birthed.

This should be determined by the doctor alone, not extremists on picket lines.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

A woman who's had an abortion is at 6 times the risk of suicide? I'd be interested to see the data supporting that conclussion

 

[Hunterkirk]

Prove it.



This should be determined by the doctor alone, not extremists on picket lines.

Again simple consent to do something does not mean it is medically needed. Most doctors that perform abortions do it as a choice and not as a medical need. In late term abortion when the child can be safely birthed that is unethical as the child is fully able to live outside the mother when the abortion is done. If that is done due to choice of the doctor and the patient then it breaks the basic oaths of the Doctor, which is to not cause harm.

 

[Hunterkirk]

A woman who's had an abortion is at 6 times the risk of suicide? I'd be interested to see the data supporting that conclussion

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15535821

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/do...3016.2004.00591.x?cookieSet=1&journalCode=ppe

http://www.afterabortion.info/PAR/V8/n3/abortionrisks.html#N_3_

http://www.abortionrecoverynetwork.org/user/Physical_Risks_of_Abortion.pdf

ANd still waiting for proof that abortion is as safe or safer then birth.

 

[Monica02]

However, I can say that the assumption that an abortion is a really quick procedure is not always correct. I can also say that a really quick exam - say, for a PAP smear - can take as little as -10 minutes. In a three hour period, 25 women can easily be seen, especially if the exam is done mostly by the nurse.

Okay- perhaps these women who always have another driver, have on baggy clothes that most women would normally not go out of the house in, very often are crying or konked out after they leave the clinic, very often have men coaxing them to go in, walk around the building several times (maybe they are thinking of not having a pap smear - yeah) are just at the clinic for a pap smear. That is mighty odd pap-smear behavior.

Oh- never mind that virtually everyone we ask ( the lady who thought her baby was dead was an exception) says that they are there for an abortion.

The assumption that there are "plenty of hospitals and doctor's offices around", so therefore a woman would rather go there, is not supportable. I know I'd rather go to a woman's clinic than an ER. And from what I do know of America's health-care system, not every person can go to every clinic, due to HMO and insurance restrictions.

You would rather get medical care in an abortion clinic than an ER?

And what is "an abortionist"? It's not a medical or scientific label. It's not a medical specialty.

An abortionist is anyone who performs abortions.

And my answer still has not be answered: does this clinic work soley on abortion cases? Or is it a full-service OBGYN clinic that happens to also perform abortions?

It is a clinic that does many abortions. I never see anyone visibly pregnant so it could not be a full service OBGYN because OBGYN's usually have some visibly pregnant women hanging around. Saturday, the day we go - is abortion day.

I'm going to try to be diplomatic here. I've been to the doctor when I've been worried about results. A bunch of protesters outside a clinic would probably lead me to snap. I know many friends of all ages who have had to go to the doctor's for serious reasons and who would also be harmed by protesters outside the clinic.

You and your friends must be pretty thin-skinned to be "hurt" by people standing around offering aid.

Am I to believe that no one goes to this clinic by bike, bus, walking?

You can safely believe this. People occasionally take a cab. I have never seen anyone except the employees take the bus.


This is pretty much a drive-to type of location. The clinics downtown are usually walk-to because parking is so difficult - alot more people take cabs tothe downtown clinics.

That's wonderful. Mind you, had she had better options, had she known that adoption was a good option, and that her baby would not go into a bad foster care system, she may have not even ever considered abortion.

She is keeping her baby - she wants her baby. We did give her better options - that is exactly what we are there for.

I don't get why you would give her roses. A more useful gift would have been maternity clothes... a Baskin Robbins gift card... roses just seem rather showy.

We had the roses and we just gave them to her. She seemed to like them. When the weather permits we keep rose handy to hand out. The pregnancy center we took her to can supply her with plenty of neccessities.

Malpractice, sadly, happens. Patients who are victims of malpractice need legal care and medical help, not propaganda.

We got her medical care. She was not interested in legal help - we did look into it.

Also, why would a woman be going in to a walk-in abortion-only clinic for an incomplete miscarriage? She wasn't going in for an abortion - she was going in for a incomplete miscarriage. She would need a full OBGYN workup for a incomplete miscarriage, something a place that only provides abortions would not provide.

That was my whole point - I was pointing out that this was one case of someone not going in for an abortion.

Yes, it is useless and tragic to stand outside a medical clinic and cause stress to those going inside, not knowing why they are going. It is tragic to expect that a total stranger to a patient will know better than the doctor what that patient needs.

Maybe some patients, namely the ones who stop to talk to us, are interested in other information and options.
People do change their minds and our actions are not useless to these people.

Some of these women will have no family support, no health insurance. They have the option of having the child and giving him or her up to a shaky, scary foster care system (many of these women may have gone through the system themselves, hence having no family) and now they are being guilted into a decision, rather than having true support.

What makes you think these women feel guilty about anything? Maybe they truly want to have their baby and want out input. Maybe they changed their mind whenthey entered the driveway.

American government support is often far from sufficient unless a person already has family support. Not everyone is a member of the Catholic Church.

There is alot of support for women. Catholic support is not limited to only Catholics. Governmant aid is available for those who qualify. Also, alot of people are capable of taking care of their own kids. Not everyone going to the clinci is dirt poor and drug addicted.

And there's that anti-abortion attitude! It's easier to protest and hand out flyers than to assure that everyone has access to medical care, that the foster care system is solid, that all public schools are safe, that middle-class families can afford to adopt children rather than be foster families who have little control over how long a child stays!

I am very much in favor of making adoption more accessable. The foster care system does indeed need changed.

Actually protesting and handing out pro-life flyers is very difficult. We always have to have a lawyer handy and we take alot of abuse.

Lobbying for better medical coverage for all takes more time than protesting! Getting a Master's degree in psychology and a teacher's certificate so one can work in inner-city schools takes work! Helping middle-class families raise money to adopt takes a screening process, time, energy, and organization! Fixing the foster care system requires actually fostering kids, and also getting involved in the politics!

I am very involved in politics and I tried to get a job teaching in the inner-city schools but I could not because I would have to live in the city - something I cannot afford to do.

Protesting at clinics gets all those "good work" endorphines going without actually helping the "unborn babies" once they are born. Handing out flyers is even hands-on!

What makes you think that we do not help the babies once they are born? Our Church supports aid organizations.

Giving out pamphlets that people don't read is useless waste. And just think... if protesters instead worked for 4 hours a week and gave that money to education funds, those homeless men could go to trades courses and get jobs! And a PO box could help those men get jobs, as a person needs an address to get a job.

People read them - we see them - it gives them something to do at the train stop. Thes homeless men are drunks and that is why they are in the woods.
We (and many other people) have tried to get them help of various sorts but they refuse it. The cops did come over the winter and "arrest" one of the guys for moving violations ( he does not have a car) and put him in jail where he got some much needed medical attention. He said the jail was pretty nice and he spent most of thetime in the hospital.




[

 

[Texas Lynn]

Again simple consent to do something does not mean it is medically needed.

That's of no one's concern except the woman and the physician.

Most doctors that perform abortions do it as a choice and not as a medical need.

That's none of our business whether it is or not.

In late term abortion when the child can be safely birthed that is unethical as the child is fully able to live outside the mother when the abortion is done. If that is done due to choice of the doctor and the patient then it breaks the basic oaths of the Doctor, which is to not cause harm.

If so, those doctors would be drummed out of their profession. Since they're not, it's just more unsupportable hyperbole.

 

[Texas Lynn]

You would rather get medical care in an abortion clinic than an ER?

Anybody who knows anything about healthcare would. So would people's insurace companies.

An abortionist is anyone who performs abortions.

And the term is used only as an epithet. All M.D. so characterized do plenty of other things. As recently as 100 years ago most abortions, and most births, were done by midwives.

I am very much in favor of making adoption more accessable. The foster care system does indeed need changed.

Interestingly the religious right organizations opposing abortion want to limit certain people's rights to adopt and foster.

 

[Steezie]

wikipedia is not medical fora - wikipedia can be editted to say anything one wants it to say. Not valid. Please cite an actual medical source to say that birth is as risky as an abortion. Thanks

LOL... Ok I will ne nice... Show me a study saying abortion is safer the natural birth...

I showed you statistics from the CDC. Wikipedia summed them up but I showed you two links directly from the Center for Disease Control which IS a reputable source.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Im sorry, I cannot find anything from the CDC that states that an abortion is safer than childbirth. Can you quote that in context with a link to the CDC statement at the actual CDC website? Thanks.

 

[CCGirl]

There simply is no need for a society to have laws regarding abortion. This is a medical procedure, how many laws do we have governing hip replacements? Colonoscopy? NONE. These medical procedures are governed by the medical community.

Thankfully I live in a nation where we have no need for any abortion laws from Parliament.

 

[CCGirl]

I see so we should respect our childrens decisions if they want to commit suicide , take drugs and murder someone.

We should respect the adult choice to be a drunk and do nothing about it. I gotcha.

The problem is that you seem to have a hard time seperating that we must respect what people do to respect THEM as a person. These are not the same issues but you desire to state that if we do not respect someones choice to SIN that we cannot possibly respect THEM.

No, you seem to have a hard time understanding that an independent adult person has the right to make their own choices about their own body. That is what must be respected. You are not separating their sovereignty over your personal dislike of a certain medical procedure.


As far as what her choice is, that is simply none of anyone else's business! Same with any other medical procedure.

 

[Hunterkirk]

That's of no one's concern except the woman and the physician.



That's none of our business whether it is or not.



If so, those doctors would be drummed out of their profession. Since they're not, it's just more unsupportable hyperbole.

When another life is involve, a life that can be medically safely birthed it becomes no longer just a womans right to her own body, since with in that body is another person whom has rights also.

 

[SallyNow]

Okay- perhaps these women who always have another driver, have on baggy clothes that most women would normally not go out of the house in, very often are crying or konked out after they leave the clinic, very often have men coaxing them to go in, walk around the building several times (maybe they are thinking of not having a pap smear - yeah) are just at the clinic for a pap smear. That is mighty odd pap-smear behavior.

I know plenty of people who go in baggy clothes to pap smears... it's a very intimate time. I know lots of peopel who bring along friends when they go to the doctor's office. I also know people who take anti-anxiety medication before going to the doctor's because of phobias and such, and many people go in to the doctor for a post-op check-up, usually still on strong painkillers.

Oh- never mind that virtually everyone we ask ( the lady who thought her baby was dead was an exception) says that they are there for an abortion.

So, this clinic is a clinic that offers a range of services, and on Saturday, when women have time to recover, they offer abortions.

You would rather get medical care in an abortion clinic than an ER?

I'd rather go into a quality after-hours walk-in clinic with some of the best doctors in town than go the excellent (but often crowded with real emergencies) ER. That's the system here where I live, but I'm in Canada. I've never seen a clinic that performs only abortions, and never heard of them, either, until now.

The clinic in question still appears to be a gynocological office, with only limited obstretician services. It's not an abortion mill, it is a medical clinic that does what is necessary.

An abortionist is anyone who performs abortions.

Then that is almost every doctor who has had to work in an ER. Ectopic pregnancies, severe pregnancy traumas due to car accidents, incomplete miscarriages... all may require abortions.

It is a clinic that does many abortions. I never see anyone visibly pregnant so it could not be a full service OBGYN because OBGYN's usually have some visibly pregnant women hanging around. Saturday, the day we go - is abortion day.

So do you hang out a the place often? Or only on Saturdays? This clinic may be an GYN clinic connected with another prenatal/OB/pediatrician clinic.

You and your friends must be pretty thin-skinned to be "hurt" by people standing around offering aid.

A person is thin-skinned when they are going into a clinic to hear bad news, or to the hear the results of a lab test... cancer, AIDS, diabetes, infertilitity, an STD, a newly discovered heart defect. Perhaps "thin-skinned" isn't the word: the right word worried out of their mind for a valid reason"

You can safely believe this. People occasionally take a cab. I have never seen anyone except the employees take the bus.

That's just weird.

This is pretty much a drive-to type of location. The clinics downtown are usually walk-to because parking is so difficult - alot more people take cabs tothe downtown clinics.

Um, okay.

She is keeping her baby - she wants her baby. We did give her better options - that is exactly what we are there for.

That is wonderful! But what is wonderful for her could be horrible for another.

We had the roses and we just gave them to her. She seemed to like them. When the weather permits we keep rose handy to hand out. The pregnancy center we took her to can supply her with plenty of neccessities.

Okay.

We got her medical care. She was not interested in legal help - we did look into it.

She may well have gotten that same medical help when she stepped into the clinic that day and talked to the doctor.

That was my whole point - I was pointing out that this was one case of someone not going in for an abortion.

Maybe some patients, namely the ones who stop to talk to us, are interested in other information and options.
People do change their minds and our actions are not useless to these people.

As I have stated before, there are some much more effective ways to accomplish the same goal - they only are harder work and require only those who are truly dedicated to both pre-born babies and the children they become.

What makes you think these women feel guilty about anything? Maybe they truly want to have their baby and want out input. Maybe they changed their mind whenthey entered the driveway.

And maybe they never would have considered abortion was the social support networks in the USA stronger.

There is alot of support for women. Catholic support is not limited to only Catholics. Governmant aid is available for those who qualify. Also, alot of people are capable of taking care of their own kids. Not everyone going to the clinci is dirt poor and drug addicted.

A person doesn't have to be dirt poor or drug addicted to be going through hard times. One missed bill can turn in to some serious debts and financial problems. So can a bad marriage. But the point is that while there are a lot of people capable of taking care of their children, those children will still need a quality public education, and there should still be a good foster care system that can be help if things go awry.

I am very much in favor of making adoption more accessable. The foster care system does indeed need changed.

Finally! We agree!

Actually protesting and handing out pro-life flyers is very difficult. We always have to have a lawyer handy and we take alot of abuse.

I've done my fair share of protesting too. It is work, but a far cry from lobbying for action, or doing something hands-on and right involved in the very systems that are creating the reasons for so many abortions to take place.

Protesting abortion is a band-aid over a bullet-wound. Protesting abortions with harasssing speech and graphic images is putting salt in that band-aid, creating more than if the protesters just put their energy in to fixing the root problems.

I am very involved in politics and I tried to get a job teaching in the inner-city schools but I could not because I would have to live in the city - something I cannot afford to do.

Many very rural schools also need highly-educated teachers.

What makes you think that we do not help the babies once they are born? Our Church supports aid organizations.

Because the focus still seems to be on the fetuses, not hte aftermath.

People read them - we see them - it gives them something to do at the train stop. Thes homeless men are drunks and that is why they are in the woods.
We (and many other people) have tried to get them help of various sorts but they refuse it. The cops did come over the winter and "arrest" one of the guys for moving violations ( he does not have a car) and put him in jail where he got some much needed medical attention. He said the jail was pretty nice and he spent most of thetime in the hospital.

If these men are too far in the spiral of pain, then the only other thing to do is help prevent others from going there - such as better public education, better foster care systems, less expensive adoptions, etc.

 

[kevin36]

I'm talking about the law; the law determines this.

The idea the law should state otherwise is a recent innovation.

You're defining this by the law. Thank you for finally clarifying that. But what is your personal view, without hiding behind the law?

To you, as a Christian, is the current law in this country that allows the killing of unborn children above God's Law that says that it is wrong? Is that a proper assessment of your position?

You also never answered my question as to when you believe life begins, and therefor when it should begin being protected.

 

[kevin36]

If you hold women in high regard you will respect their own moral agency to make their own decisions.

Simply because I hold women in general in high regard does not mean that I have to respect a specific decision, be it to abort a child, or to do anything else. There are many, many off-topic activities, moralities, etc, that I could name that I am against, even though I respect and love the people themselves.