Mariology

[Hentenza]

OKay, what's your point?

Hey, I just answered your questions. I thought you were heading somewhere.

 

[ScottBot]

Hey, I just answered your questions. I thought you were heading somewhere.

I am. I'm headed out to lunch.

 

[Trento]

He is our Mediator in Heaven. The only one spoken of there. He is our intercessor in Heaven. the only one spoken of there. We as His people here on earth can go to the Father because of Him and pray for our brothers and sisters or situations down here.

Clearly here we have an example of an Angel acting as a mediator for a man who is about to die from sickness and sin and yet by the Angels mediation the man is restored to his health and his righteous state. By virtue of the Angels persuading intercessory prayer to God to have mercy on the man, the man was spared death.

JOB 33:21 His flesh wastes away to nothing, and his bones, once hidden, now stick out. JOB 33:22 His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to the messengers of death. JOB 33:23 "Yet if there is an angel on his side as a mediator, one out of a thousand, to tell a man what is right for him, JOB 33:24 to be gracious to him and say, Spare him from going down to the pit; I have found a ransom for him'-- JOB 33:25 then his flesh is renewed like a child's; it is restored as in the days of his youth . JOB 33:26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy, he is restored by God to his righteous state.


You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard...But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?" ST. JEROME Against Vigilantius 6 AD 406

I trust that St. Jerome translated Gods word correctly so His belief in the communion of Saints is assured practice in the Apostolic Church.
The supposition that we need a passage to tell us something is okayto do is the very essence of legalism-the idea that one must have special permission before one is allowed to do something, the principle "Whatever is not expressly permitted is prohibited." A fundamental principle of all law-a principle which legalism rejects-is that whatever is not expressly prohibited is permitted. God gave us intellects and expects us to use them. The function of his law is to set boundaries to make sure we know what we are not permitted do.
Nothing can be more legalistic than the idea you have to have an express biblical permission before you can do something. Legalistic, soul-scarring misunderstanding is a key part of the Pharisaical mindset that Jesus condemned, for if one follows this principle consistently, one will most assuredly "tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders" (Matthew 23:4)

 

[IamAdopted]

Clearly here we have an example of an Angel acting as a mediator for a man who is about to die from sickness and sin and yet by the Angels mediation the man is restored to his health and his righteous state. By virtue of the Angels persuading intercessory prayer to God to have mercy on the man, the man was spared death.

JOB 33:21 His flesh wastes away to nothing, and his bones, once hidden, now stick out. JOB 33:22 His soul draws near to the pit, and his life to the messengers of death. JOB 33:23 "Yet if there is an angel on his side as a mediator, one out of a thousand, to tell a man what is right for him, JOB 33:24 to be gracious to him and say, Spare him from going down to the pit; I have found a ransom for him'-- JOB 33:25 then his flesh is renewed like a child's; it is restored as in the days of his youth . JOB 33:26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy, he is restored by God to his righteous state.


You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard...But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?" ST. JEROME Against Vigilantius 6 AD 406

I trust that St. Jerome translated Gods word correctly so His belief in the communion of Saints is assured practice in the Apostolic Church.
The supposition that we need a passage to tell us something is okayto do is the very essence of legalism-the idea that one must have special permission before one is allowed to do something, the principle "Whatever is not expressly permitted is prohibited." A fundamental principle of all law-a principle which legalism rejects-is that whatever is not expressly prohibited is permitted. God gave us intellects and expects us to use them. The function of his law is to set boundaries to make sure we know what we are not permitted do.
Nothing can be more legalistic than the idea you have to have an express biblical permission before you can do something. Legalistic, soul-scarring misunderstanding is a key part of the Pharisaical mindset that Jesus condemned, for if one follows this principle consistently, one will most assuredly "tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders" (Matthew 23:4)

This counsel that Job Got was not from God. God comes and answers Job. Elihu claims to speak for God. He tells Job that this is God doing this to him for some sin. When in fact it was not God doing this. Then God in chapter 28 speaks to Job. Here is what God says first to Job.

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said,
Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge?

 

[Trento]

This counsel that Job Got was not from God. God comes and answers Job. Elihu claims to speak for God. He tells Job that this is God doing this to him for some sin. When in fact it was not God doing this. Then God in chapter 28 speaks to Job. Here is what God says first to Job.

Under whose interpretation? Why is your interpretation authoritative?

 

[Rowan]

Ahh, she probably got it from Fr. Arseny's book. You should read it, it is great. It is about his imprisionment during communist Russia, and being in a death camp..

Thank you for the recommendation. I will look into it. I appreciate hearing about the miracles of the saints to God's glory.

 

[IamAdopted]

Under whose interpretation? Why is your interpretation authoritative?

Read the whole of Job. IT is pretty explainable in there.

 

[jckstraw72]

oh man Fr. Arseny is one of the best books ive ever read

 

[repentant]

He is our Mediator in Heaven. The only one spoken of there. He is our intercessor in Heaven. the only one spoken of there. We as His people here on earth can go to the Father because of Him and pray for our brothers and sisters or situations down here.

You have totally misinterpreted what Jesus meant by mediator. When Jesus said He was the mediator to God for man, what He was reffering to was the reason why He came as Man. To restore us back to the Father. This is how He mediated to the Father for us, for there was no other way. Remember when Christ was praying before they came and arrested Him? What did He pray? Didn't He ask God if there was another way, and if He could take this cup from Him? But Jesus following the will of the Father, said it would be done according to God's Will, because this was the only way to restore us. This is how He mediated, and is the only mediator to God the Father, He died for us..He is the ONLY one who could have done that...hence ONLY mediator to God..

 

[repentant]

Nope.

Explain please. How does one praying for another not constitute mediation?

 

[IamAdopted]

You have totally misinterpreted what Jesus meant by mediator. When Jesus said He was the mediator to God for man, what He was reffering to was the reason why He came as Man. To restore us back to the Father. This is how He mediated to the Father for us, for there was no other way. Remember when Christ was praying before they came and arrested Him? What did He pray? Didn't He ask God if there was another way, and if He could take this cup from Him? But Jesus following the will of the Father, said it would be done according to God's Will, because this was the only way to restore us. This is how He mediated, and is the only mediator to God the Father, He died for us..He is the ONLY one who could have done that...hence ONLY mediator to God..

And He still sits at the right hand side of God to be the mediator. For we still can not get to the Father except through Christ. No one can.

 

[Oblio]

Our human nature now sits at the right hand of the Father, Christ has already mediated for us, it is finished you speak of it as if it is future tense, it it not.

 

[IamAdopted]

Our human nature now sits at the right hand of the Father, Christ has already mediated for us, it is finished you speak of it as if it is future tense, it it not.

What? Our human nature sits at the right hand side of God? Our natures still live within us. This is the struggle that we have as Paul had. This is why we still sin. HE died once for all this is true. But He sits at the right hand side of my Father and no one can come to the Father except through Him. He is our mediator. He also forever lives to intercess for us. We only see scripture saying this about Jesus and Jesus only. Not Saints that have gone on to rest in the presence of their King.

 

[jckstraw72]

What? Our human nature sits at the right hand side of God? Our natures still live within us. This is the struggle that we have as Paul had. This is why we still sin. HE died once for all this is true. But He sits at the right hand side of my Father and no one can come to the Father except through Him. He is our mediator. He also forever lives to intercess for us. We only see scripture saying this about Jesus and Jesus only. Not Saints that have gone on to rest in the presence of their King.

when you say rest do you mean theyre not worshipping, not praying, etc? what do you mean by rest?

 

[IamAdopted]

when you say rest do you mean theyre not worshipping, not praying, etc? what do you mean by rest?

Their race has been run. They are at the finish line no longer running the race that is set before us here on earth. They are in the Presence of thier King at perfect peace and rest.

 

[Rowan]

What? Our human nature sits at the right hand side of God?

Sure. The Word is still flesh.

 

[icedtea]

Thats the main thing those in Heaven are doing, praising!

 

[IamAdopted]

Sure. The Word is still flesh.

Tee hee okay.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Thats the main thing those in Heaven are doing, praising!

Yes, they are the ORIGINAL PTL Club!

 

[simonthezealot]

Perhaps that is because RC & EO rarely make deliberate false statements about what others believe.

RIGHT OBLIO! GIMME A BREAK.