convert me

[ebia]

either you guys are all really crazy or you have something pretty great compared to most religions,

would seem to contain the answers to to last 3

 

[ebia]

I didn't say it answered the first 2. That's the point I'm trying to get at - unless its clear what your question is, you probably aren't going to get the appropriate answers.

 

[danielsm]

Again, scientologists are out there every day, they REALLY WANT YOU TO BE ONE OF THEM

Is it cuz they're crazy or because they have the light and the truth?

It must be that Scientology is truer than all the other faiths.

 

[danielsm]

Well OK, here's some specific stuff.

1. Let's assume Christianity IS the ultimate truth handed down by God Almighty. Why does it matter if there are people who aren't Christian? Why does it matter if LOADS of people aren't Christian?

more to follow

 

[ebia]

Again, scientologists are out there every day, they REALLY WANT YOU TO BE ONE OF THEM

Is it cuz they're crazy or because they have the light and the truth?

It must be that Scientology is truer than all the other faiths.

I'm not saying that Christianty is correct because Christians claim they are the light and the truth.

"Jesus is Lord (of the whole creation)" is an answer to "why do Christians want to spread their message", and an answer to "what is distinctive about Christianity", but it's not an answer to "what evidence do you have".

"Why should I join you?" is actually an ambiguous question, because it falls into either of those two groups - it can mean "what would I gain from joining you", or it can mean "what evidence do you have to convince me", and those are completely different questions.

1. Let's assume Christianity IS the ultimate truth handed down by God Almighty. Why does it matter if there are people who aren't Christian? Why does it matter if LOADS of people aren't Christian

Because Jesus is Lord of the whole of creation, and he came to redeem the whole of creation. So it's necessary, ultimately, that "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess him..."

 

[danielsm]

But if I believe in God, why should God care which Prophet's temple I'm doing it in?

 

[ebia]

But if I believe in God, why should God care which Prophet's temple I'm doing it in?

Because there is only one temple (Jesus). The rest are parodys.

If you want to catch a train, it's no good being in something that looks like a railway station. You need to be in the place where the train actually stops.

 

[danielsm]

Its interesting, cuz there were temples to God before Jesus. You may be aware of at least the Jewish one due to the fact that Jesus was quite upset by its misuse.

 

[danielsm]

So Jews are a parody of Christianity. Be sure to tell them that to their face.

 

[ebia]

Its interesting, cuz there were temples to God before Jesus. You may be aware of at least the Jewish one due to the fact that Jesus was quite upset by its misuse.

And overturned it to replace it with the true temple to which it should always have pointed - himself.

So Jews are a parody of Christianity. Be sure to tell them that to their face.

That's not what I said.

 

[danielsm]

Well if all other temples are a parody of Christianity, then the one predating Christianity must be too.... somehow... even though in Judaism Jesus is just one of a thousand or more Messianic claimants... the point being again not that you're wrong, but that its arrogant to call a religion predating yours a parody.

 

[danielsm]

So if someone who doesn't think Jesus' anscestors followed a religion that was a parody of one to come after would like to answer my question: Why does God care?

 

[Lisa0315]

So I'm a lifelong non-Christian, and a lifelong religious person. Nobody has tried more to convert me (other than Atheists) than Christians, and nobody (other than Atheists) has given less non-catchphrase-based reasons why I should do it. ("Atheism is freedom!" "Have fun in hell")

So please, I would really like it if someone would explain to me what the benifit is in joining any or all sects of Christianity. Not trying to start a fight, frustrated with lack of convincing prosthelatising.

I once said to an atheist, and I believe this with all my heart...Atheists often ask, "How do you KNOW that it is true". Christians often reply with circular logic.

Well, I do believe with all my heart and I won't bother defending my KNOWLEDGE of Jesus Christ, but here is the answer that I give to atheists...

If it is all false, and there is no God, and I am nothing but future worm food, my life will have been better because I tried to follow the teachings of Christ.

If you take out the religion, and only look to Christ, there is value there. Christ is the only One who taught sacrificial love, and lived and died for it.

Lisa

 

[danielsm]

So by your reasoning I can keep my current religion and worship God my way as long as I look to Jesus as a kind of secular philosopher.

 

[danielsm]

I'm not mocking you, that's pretty neat, but it doesn't really answer the question of why other Christians feel the need to make others Christian...

 

[Lisa0315]

So by your reasoning I can keep my current religion and worship God my way as long as I look to Jesus as a kind of secular philosopher.

No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying that by studing the life of Christ, all others will not measure up. You cannot serve Christ and another. By the words of Christ, it is just not possible.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

I'm not mocking you, that's pretty neat, but it doesn't really answer the question of why other Christians feel the need to make others Christian...

No, I didn't take it as mocking, and naturally, my short answer is a starting point.

Lisa

 

[danielsm]

From what I know about Christ's life

1. He was pretty awesome, but not the be-all-end-all prophet
2. At some point he got declared to be God. Now from my point of view that's Pagan, since God is undying (Christ died on the cross) unborn (Christ was born of a virgin) omnipotent (Christ was arrested) formless and infinite (Christ was a man walking among us)

So I don't think Christ's life is going to inspire me to be a Christian. It seems to me everyone knows about Christ's life. It seems most converts to Christianity are converted by some sort of Biblical logic or some such. I don't know. What does convert people?

 

[ebia]

Well if all other temples are a parody of Christianity, then the one predating Christianity must be too....

By the 1st Century the temple in Jerusalem had most definitely become a parody of God's intention.

somehow... even though in Judaism Jesus is just one of a thousand or more Messianic claimants... the point being again not that you're wrong, but that its arrogant to call a religion predating yours a parody.

That's not actually what I said, but ultimately it is 'arrogant' to say my "religion is right and yours is not". Unless, of course, it's true. You can't get around the fact that Christianity's claim is a claim that "Jesus is Lord ... and Caesar (or anybody or thing else) is not".

So if someone who doesn't think Jesus' anscestors followed a religion that was a parody of one to come after ...

Again, that's not what I said.

 

[danielsm]

So all modern Jews have to pay for what the Jews were like during Christ's lifetime. Perhaps they should also all be declared his murderers for their ethnicity?

I also didn't say it was arrogant to say you were right, I said it was arrogant to call the parent religion of your religion a parody. And you did say "all others are a parody" and Jewish temples are NOT Christian, so what are you saying?