Approaching Homosexuality?

[Nadiine]

That, is hypocrisy. A real Christian would not judge these gay folks. A real Christian would not try to "heal" a gay person. A real Christian would be compassionate and understanding, as Jesus was; that is my point here.

If you're going to say you're a Christian, you should behave like one and try to care about these folks.

As for suicides... You would be surprised. In our region it is definitely a problem, because the majority of families all go to Church. These kids off themselves because they feel that they will be ostracised from their families - which some have been after coming out. They are forced to leave home because their families are disgusted, angry and resentful towards them. For this reason, these poor kids feel helpless and alone and kill themselves, rather than be an embarrassment to their highly religious families.

You would be surprised when you research these matters. I'm not saying it happens in every community, but it does happen here and it's appalling and makes me very sad that people are so narrow-minded as to ostracise their own friends and family just because someone turns out to gay. What difference does it make?



Then why bother even being born in the first place?

Are you saying it's okay to gay-bash because this is just someplace to hang out until we pass on?

Are you saying it's completely acceptable to suffer as a gay, or whatever, because if we believe in Christ our reward will be greater when we get to Heaven if we are believers?

I don't think so. Sure, as believers of Christ, we get razzed about being Christians or religious, or whatever, but nowhere near the extent that gay folks do. I have not heard of a Christian in a western country being bashed to death because they're a Christian. How many gays get severly beaten or murdered just on the provision that they're gay?

I'm just trying to get people to realise that if you say you're a Christian, then you should behave like one and not ostracise folks on the basis of their sexuality.

It looks to me like your also JUDGING Christians here.
Define "gay bashing" too....

I'm sorry but you seem to be ATTACKING all Christians if they dare say this is a sinful lifestyle. In America the war is on for homosexuality here to be accepted in the mainstream as a regular lifestyle.
If Christians DO NOT stand up against this lifestyle whatsoever, then we're also not doing our job as SALT AND LIGHT in a dark world.

So there's the main problem in a nutshell - it has to be called what it is, SIN. The issue is, homosexuals today aren't trying to just to be accepted, they're forcing their lifestyle to be accepted on top of it. And that is causing most of the current friction.

Aside from that, I'm not these Christian people, so I don't like being lumped in with them as if I"m doing anything wrong & being judged by you for it. (that's how your post appears as I read it).

Standing up & speaking truth (on ANY sins) is part of our job as much as it is to love others. We're to preach the truth IN LOVE. Not in hatred.

I'm not called to accept this lifestyle nor will I (or any other that I know my Lord died for so we could be FREE from & live an abundant life).

One other thing, don't blame Christians for the suicide rate - alot of the suicide rate according to stats I've read is, they inwardly DO feel shame & dislike being gay and that promotes alot of it; it's not CHRISTIANS causing suicide - their sin is a source of the guilt they live in becuz God says it's unnatural (Romans 1:18-32).
Inwardly, they know and many have a hard time coping.

Please don't attempt to lay that at the doorstep of all Christians for speaking the truth. God will deal with individual Christians who have failed in this area of not loving... it's not all our blame.

Jesus' words:

Luke 5:32
"I have not come to call the righteous
but sinners to repentance."
​

 

[Sketcher]

So my point is this, where I live, the community is highly 'Christian' in nature - that is to say, that there is practically a church on every corner of every denomination you can imagine.

There is a gay couple in the next town over; they have improved tourism and economy in our region due to their redevelopment and promotion of a local market.

Because they are gay, the 'Christian' community harrasses them, nails dead rabbits to their door and sends filthy anti-gay letters to all the residents asking them to basically run these guys out of the region.

That is not Christian like behaviour.

I am not 'Christian bashing', but trying to make the point that it is hypocritical of any Christian to take this kind of stance, where they do not show the ability to keep their opinions to themselves. To put these kinds of actions into the limelight only shows how narrow-minded anti-gay people are.

I agree this behavior you cited is not Christlike, but I have serious doubts about the devotion of an evangelical Christian if he's nailing dead rabbits to someone's door for any reason. However, just because one proclaims that homosexuality is a sin does not automatically put him in this category. And certain people reacting or overreacting to a specific sin in a certain way does not make the sin not sinful anymore. This is a fallacious assumption.

A real Christian would not judge these gay folks. A real Christian would not try to "heal" a gay person. A real Christian would be compassionate and understanding, as Jesus was; that is my point here.

A real Christian walking as Jesus did would reach out to them, but not lie to them by saying their sin isn't a sin. Jesus didn't excuse the greed of the tax collectors or the fornication/adultery of the prostitutes, but He did a heck of a job lovingly reaching out to them.

 

[FenderElctrc]

Jaisen, why do you call us hypocrites when you are the one attacking. We are not being hypocrites. Every sin is the same. There is no worse one. You may notice the title "Approaching Homosexuality?" So, we're discussing homosexuality not the other sins. We are aware that every sin is evil.

 

[BustedFlat]

It hurts to read but this dude speaks the truth...

We must lead them to Jesus by the examples we set and the compassion and love we show...

I could not disagree more with your first line Brother, nor more with your second. There are grains of the truth of God in what Jaisen is saying but boulders of the truth of Satan.


The main reason that Paul rails against sexual sin, ANY sexual sin, is that it attacks the very model used by the Holy Spirit to explain God's love for us ... marriage.

If you debase marriage then you have debased the word of God. Desensitize us to the Holiness of marriage and you desensitize us to God.


That has been the evil ones plan since before the flood. Just look how often in the bible marriage or infidelity is used to teach us something. The whole concept of the Love of Jesus is given to us through the bride of the Church. Why do you think Satan has worked so hard through the ages to promote sexual sin as a whole and homosexual sin in specific?

Now as to there being a Christian Community just because there is a church on every corner .... sorry don't buy it nor would I ever say it. A quick read of Revelation 2 and 3 show us that only 2 of 7 churches have nothing held against them. And one of them is the persecuted church. One gets the idea that, in their case, anything negative is trivial compared to death for believing on Jesus. (Yes I said on Acts 16:31, even Satan and all his demons believe in Jesus)


Rev 2:4Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Europe thought it was a “Christian Community” in the 30s and 40s but managed to keep silent as 6 million Jews were butchered.

Was it all Christians? No. Not all Christians stood by and watched, but too many were more worried about their worldly hides and not the will of God.

Not all who stood in the pulpits and said nothing are resting with the Lord today, just as not all who helped someone escape the death camps were Christians and did it for the Glory of God and the love of Christ.

A lot more had very worldly reasons for getting involved. Love of the economic, love of the thrill of defiance, all kinds of love, but not the first love of God above all else. They received their reward and will have to deal with the Lord on His day.


When we declare that we are willing to allow the work of Satan to tear apart the word of God so that anyone may rest comfortable in their sin are we really showing our love of God? Or are we looking to score points in the world by supporting a cause that most have no idea where the leadership comes from or what their agenda is.


Bottom line is that we must show them the Love of God, and glorify Him while we do it. We can not do that if we do not address sin, both in us and in them.

I am a sinner, I was born a sinned and will die a sinner, but my sin does not define me. My sin does not rule me. Most days, using Matthew 5 as my yardstick I will break all 10 of the commandments Jesus wrote with his finger on the stone at Sinai before I make it to the stop light leaving the neighborhood. On a really good day I may make it all the way to the Interstate.


Sin is not the yardstick. What do we do with it and how do we give glory to the Love the Lord has given us is how He will measure us.

 

[Nadiine]

The main reason that Paul rails against sexual sin is that it attacks the very model used by the Holy Spirit to explain God's love for us ... marriage. ANY sexual sin.

If you debase marriage then you have debased the word of God. Desensitize us to the Holiness of marriage and you desensitize us to God.

That has been the evil ones plan since before the flood. Just look how often in the bible marriage or infidelity is used to teach us something. The whole concept of the Love of Jesus is given to us through the bride of the Church. Why do you think Satan has worked so hard through the ages to promote sexual sin as a whole and homosexual sin in specific?

Amazingly, this is exactly what our Pastor taught this morning in church!
(not the gay issue part, but marriage intimacy) - how God created the man & woman (2 become one) and how that love is the direct reflection of God's love towards us.
The marriage model was interesting in how God demonstrates His own deep love over us (the bride of Christ). Interesting - any perversion to it alters our model of God's love towards us.

Now as to there being a Christian Community just because there is a church on every corner .... sorry don't buy it nor would I ever say it. A quick read of Revelation 2 and 3 show us that only 2 of 7 churches have nothing held against them. And one of them is the persecuted church. One gets the idea that, in their case, anything negative is trivial compared to death for believing on Jesus. (Yes I said on, even Satan and all his demons believe in Jesus)


Rev 2:4Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Europe thought it was a “Christian Community” in the 30s and 40s but managed to keep silent as 6 million Jews were butchered.

Was it all Christians? No. Not all Christians stood by and watched, but too many were more worried about their worldly hides and not the will of God.

Not all who stood in the pulpits and said nothing are resting with the Lord today, just as not all who helped someone escape the death camps were Christians and did it for the Glory of God and the love of Christ.

A lot more had very worldly reasons for getting involved. Love of the economic, love of the thrill of defiance, all kinds of love, but not the first love of God above all else. They received their reward and will have to deal with the Lord on His day.

When we declare that we are willing to allow the work of Satan to tear apart the word of God so that anyone may rest comfortable in their sin are we really showing our love of God? Or are we looking to score points in the world by supporting a cause that most have no idea where the leadership comes from or what their agenda is.

Bottom line is that we must show them the Love of God, and glorify Him well we do it. We can not do that if we do not address sin, both in us and in them.

I am a sinner, I was born a sinned and will die a sinner, but my sin does not define me. My sin does not rule me. Most days, using Matthew 5 as my yardstick I will break all 10 of the commandments Jesus wrote with his finger on the stone at Sinai before I make it to the stop light leaving the neighborhood. On a really good day I may make it all the way to the Interstate.

Sin is not the yardstick. What do we do with it and how do we give glory to the Love the Lord has given us is how He will measure us.

Kinda reminds me of all who refuse to stand up & do something for the current Darfur genocide today too. No one will do anything & there's a reason for it.

Great points you've made.

 

[ANM29]

Im with you here sister!

I recently saw a friend who got divorced and is now re-marrying. I know her heart has hardened to the Lord becuase she feels she is "livinig in sin" but that only makes me pray harder for her. In my mind, the same goes for anyone living with or "in sin". Pray for the sinners of the world and constantly remind them that Jesus died for our sins.

If we believe that fact and bring Him into our hearts we
will be saved. Even our homosexual brothers and sisters.

Exactly, Even our homosexual brothers and sisters.

I don't think most Christians get it. God never sent on us a campaign against homosexuals..nor are homosexuals making marriage between heterosexuals any less than what God said it was. Nothing can take anything away from God's original convenant.

I don't agree with homosexuals marrying, but I am sick of hearing Christians rant and rave about how a homosexual is responsible for moral decay in the world..and how we are suppose to be on the hunt to take them out or something.

Heterosexuals no longer respect the vows of marriage..There is more divorce in church than the world. The numbers are pretty close..Who fault is that? The homosexual?

 

[Jaisen]

I think we kind of got off track with what I originally meant...

I'm not saying all Christians are judgemental (but there are plenty), and I'm not saying you should all run out and find a gay pal to "convert", "heal" or whatever...

I'm just saying that Jesus would want us to just try and respect the situations of others and try to understand the kind of issues they have to deal with, particularly in regards to human rights issues.

As Christians, we get very upset when we see incidents of genocide; it riles us up to see men, women and children murdered for no reason in a foreign country.

Yet, within our own Western countries, many do not blink an eyelid - and some even support protests against gay people.

Ask yourself and be honest, how many times you have seen a news story where there is an anti-gay protest and you have thought to yourself. "Yeah. You're all going to burn in hell for being gay."

I personally know a lot of Christians who used to think this way, but through educating them using the Bible, they now feel compassion towards not just gay people, but anyone who is marginalised.

We don't have to agree with the lifestyles of gay folks, and we certainly don't have to associate with them if they're not in our neighbourhood. Even if they are in our neighbourhood, nothing says you have to associate with them... However...

If you found out your neighbour, who you really got along well with, turned out to be gay... how would you honestly react?

What if a gay couple moved into your neighbourhood, or next door to you. How would that make you feel?

Would you still go and welcome them? Or would you freak out and put your house up for sale?

These are just hypothetical questions, but perhaps it will help some people see that by being judgemental or uneducated, they may be doing the wrong thing in the eyes of the Lord.

What if these gay folks knew straight folks that would like to get to know Jesus?

Or other gay friends that have not yet found Christ?

I think you all see my point. Again, I'm not here to stir up trouble, but just to get people to see that fellowship and being a Christian means to be a believer in Christ and his teachings of compassion.

It's just a thought.

As for those of you who think that gay folks should remain "celibate" - there are some who do; and there are some who do, but still live in a relationship with another person that remains celibate too.

Just because they are a couple; they are still tarred with the same brush.

You see, there are probably many more examples that many Christians know nothing about; or don't want to even contemplate... And yet, in being ignorant, it is very possible that you may be missing very important clues to salvation.

The Lord tests us in many ways; to see just how much we have Faith in Him.

It's important that we do have that Faith; and that we exhibit traits that He would approve of: compassion, understanding, defending the underdog, love (of one's brothers and sisters, no matter their colour, creed, gender or sexuality), and providing a glimmer of hope to those that are lost and are in need of guidance.

I just figure it's important that we are not too quick to judge - lest we be judged...

 

[Nadiine]

Exactly, Even our homosexual brothers and sisters.

I don't think most Christians get it. God never sent on us a campaign against homosexuals..nor are homosexuals making marriage between heterosexuals any less than what God said it was. Nothing can take anything away from God's original convenant.

I don't agree with homosexuals marrying, but I am sick of hearing Christians rant and rave about how a homosexual is responsible for moral decay in the world..and how we are suppose to be on the hunt to take them out or something.

Heterosexuals no longer respect the vows of marriage..There is more divorce in church than the world. The numbers are pretty close..Who fault is that? The homosexual?

I'm alot more tired of spiritual apathy in the church than Christians doing their proper duty and calling out SIN for what it is in a society that refuses to take any criticism or correction for it's actions.

I'd like to know who's on the rampage against gays tho? What specific Christian groups are you talking about? I don't see it in the mainstream churches that they've picked out gays to lynch.

And comparing one problem in the church never CONDONES OTHER IMMORAL ACTIVITIES as if just becuz a Christians falls short, they can no longer hold a position on social issues or speak out against other sins?

Homosexuality DOES bring depravity of all kinds into society - they may not be a current cause of divorce, BUT THAT DOESN'T WARRENT the argument you make.

Lastly, I don't consider everyone who claims they're a Christian to actually be one. We're told the fruits a believer will have - please read 1 Cor 6:9-10

If people continue to live in chronic lifestyles of these sins, it's a good indication that they never knew Christ personally.

 

[Jaisen]

I could not disagree more with your first line Brother, nor more with your second. There are grains of the truth of God in what Jaisen is saying but boulders of the truth of Satan.


The main reason that Paul rails against sexual sin, ANY sexual sin, is that it attacks the very model used by the Holy Spirit to explain God's love for us ... marriage.

If you debase marriage then you have debased the word of God. Desensitize us to the Holiness of marriage and you desensitize us to God.


That has been the evil ones plan since before the flood. Just look how often in the bible marriage or infidelity is used to teach us something. The whole concept of the Love of Jesus is given to us through the bride of the Church. Why do you think Satan has worked so hard through the ages to promote sexual sin as a whole and homosexual sin in specific?

Now as to there being a Christian Community just because there is a church on every corner .... sorry don't buy it nor would I ever say it. A quick read of Revelation 2 and 3 show us that only 2 of 7 churches have nothing held against them. And one of them is the persecuted church. One gets the idea that, in their case, anything negative is trivial compared to death for believing on Jesus. (Yes I said on Acts 16:31, even Satan and all his demons believe in Jesus)


Rev 2:4Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Europe thought it was a “Christian Community” in the 30s and 40s but managed to keep silent as 6 million Jews were butchered.

Was it all Christians? No. Not all Christians stood by and watched, but too many were more worried about their worldly hides and not the will of God.

Not all who stood in the pulpits and said nothing are resting with the Lord today, just as not all who helped someone escape the death camps were Christians and did it for the Glory of God and the love of Christ.

A lot more had very worldly reasons for getting involved. Love of the economic, love of the thrill of defiance, all kinds of love, but not the first love of God above all else. They received their reward and will have to deal with the Lord on His day.


When we declare that we are willing to allow the work of Satan to tear apart the word of God so that anyone may rest comfortable in their sin are we really showing our love of God? Or are we looking to score points in the world by supporting a cause that most have no idea where the leadership comes from or what their agenda is.


Bottom line is that we must show them the Love of God, and glorify Him while we do it. We can not do that if we do not address sin, both in us and in them.

I am a sinner, I was born a sinned and will die a sinner, but my sin does not define me. My sin does not rule me. Most days, using Matthew 5 as my yardstick I will break all 10 of the commandments Jesus wrote with his finger on the stone at Sinai before I make it to the stop light leaving the neighborhood. On a really good day I may make it all the way to the Interstate.


Sin is not the yardstick. What do we do with it and how do we give glory to the Love the Lord has given us is how He will measure us.

This is unfortunate: Jesus already died on the cross to pay for all your sins. I would hate to think what is going to happen when you get upstairs and they ask you if you're a sinner and you say yes.

That is why Christ was sent to us; to atone for our sins, because God realised we could not live by his laws. He wanted to save us so he sent Jesus to take our sins on himself and pay for them with his blood.

We are washed of sin; and through our faith in him, we are reborn sinless in his eyes.

Perhaps it is Satan that is working really hard to blind people to this fact. I am not sure. All I know is that I have been born again and, from that point, am sinless in the eyes of the Lord.

Being filled by the Holy Spirit means I do not have to keep crucifying Christ every time I make a mistake or sin subconsciously. I pray to the Lord for thanks that he loved me enough to give his life for me; regardless of what I do - and that He has sent me to work in my community to help save others from a date with Satan in hell.

Might I suggest you read Paul Jong's books and check the references he points to in the Bible? It will save your life. It saved mine!

Peace!

 

[Nadiine]

I think we kind of got off track with what I originally meant...

I'm not saying all Christians are judgemental (but there are plenty)

It always interests me more that the people picking apart Christians (to show love to 'sinners') always complain about us judging... WHILE IGNORING THEIR OWN judgments against their own supposed family members of Christ.
How is it a self proclaiming Christian can cut another Christian right down, then run to "LOVE" on the people living in sin who they think should be shown more love???

THe Bible actually states that if you don't LOVE your brothers & sisters, YOU AREN'T EVEN OF GOD'S FAMILY.
So why are people so quick to rip into Christians (for judging) in judgment against their own? Who's the enemy anyways?

(I'm not specifically saying this of you either- I see it all the time when somoene tries to defend other groups).

It's always BAD to judge... but GOOD to judge [fellow] Christians who point out what sin is.

Baffling.

 

[Jaisen]

I'm alot more tired of spiritual apathy in the church than Christians doing their proper duty and calling out SIN for what it is in a society that refuses to take any criticism or correction for it's actions.

I'd like to know who's on the rampage against gays tho? What specific Christian groups are you talking about? I don't see it in the mainstream churches that they've picked out gays to lynch.

And comparing one problem in the church never CONDONES OTHER IMMORAL ACTIVITIES as if just becuz a Christians falls short, they can no longer hold a position on social issues or speak out against other sins?

Homosexuality DOES bring depravity of all kinds into society - they may not be a current cause of divorce, BUT THAT DOESN'T WARRENT the argument you make.

Lastly, I don't consider everyone who claims they're a Christian to actually be one. We're told the fruits a believer will have - please read 1 Cor 6:9-10

If people continue to live in chronic lifestyles of these sins, it's a good indication that they never knew Christ personally.

Precisely... I can think of a few celebrities that will have some explaining to do when they get to the other side...

The point is, the majority of homosexuals who are in monogamous relationships stay that way - meanwhile 8 out of 10 hetero couples are getting divorced; remarried; divorced; remarried, ad infinitum.

Nobody runs around with placards protesting about that!

This is an age old debate - and I personally want to try and reach out to anyone who says to me that they want to know Christ.

If they are uncertain if they are gay, then I would say they aren't and can be guided to live their life by Christ... But if they are gay, then I can show them that Christ died for their sins and that if they have faith in Him, he will open His heart to them and they will be filled with the Holy Spirit.

God loves everyone...

And I'm curious... How do you explain to someone who is born with both sets of genitals that they're doomed to hell, because no matter which way they turn, they're committing a sin.

Particularly in the case where their parents and doctors removed the wrong bits?

I suppose there are some that expect these poor souls to be virginal, pure people all their lives and to shun any chance of happiness... I don't think God would do that to someone and expect them to live a miserable existence on this Earth. Isn't it more likely that people like them are born to teach that judgement is the greatest sin?

Just a thought...

 

[Nadiine]

This is unfortunate: Jesus already died on the cross to pay for all your sins. I would hate to think what is going to happen when you get upstairs and they ask you if you're a sinner and you say yes.

Do you still sin? What does that make you?
The only difference between a Christian SINNER and a Non Christian SINNER is that we have accepted Christ's payment for ours & are forgiven.
But even so, we still continue to sin - thus, we continue to REPENT. It's a process we continue all our life.

That is why Christ was sent to us; to atone for our sins, because God realised we could not live by his laws. He wanted to save us so he sent Jesus to take our sins on himself and pay for them with his blood.

Yes, but you still sin after He's paid. It makes us sinners who are SAVED.
Paul called himself "sinner, of which I am Chief". Paul knew his status.

Perhaps it is Satan that is working really hard to blind people to this fact. I am not sure. All I know is that I have been born again and, from that point, am sinless in the eyes of the Lord.

Being viewed by God as washed and clean doesn't mean you aren't a sinner. In fact, this is why God says in Rev. 3:19 "those whom I LOVE, I rebuke and chasten".
Disciplines & corrects us. That means we sin & fall short.

We simply aren't identified as sinners if we're new creatures in Him - it doesn't stop you from sinning tho. And if you sin, you're technically a sinner - saved by God's grace.

 

[ANM29]

I'm alot more tired of spiritual apathy in the church than Christians doing their proper duty and calling out SIN for what it is in a society that refuses to take any criticism or correction for it's actions.

I do call sin sin. Homosexuality is sin. I don't need to carry banners around reminding the world of it. Now that we know it is sin, what are we going to do about it? How can you or I correct Sin, isn't that the job of the Holy Spirit to bring us under conviction? At what point do you sit back and allow God to do his work after you have preached and thrown your bibles at homosexuals?

I'd like to know who's on the rampage against gays tho? What specific Christian groups are you talking about? I don't see it in the mainstream churches that they've picked out gays to lynch.

You are one of them on a rampage it seems. BTW, there are many Christians protesting homosexuals, I don't think I need to name any more names really. That is pretty clear and obvious as I look around at the world.

And comparing one problem in the church never CONDONES OTHER IMMORAL ACTIVITIES as if just becuz a Christians falls short, they can no longer hold a position on social issues or speak out against other sins?

I didn't say you could not speak out agaisnt SIN. We ALREADY KNOW HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, how about coming off your soapbox a minute to actually go out and minister to these SINNERS! HAVE YOU??

Homosexuality DOES bring depravity of all kinds into society - they may not be a current cause of divorce, BUT THAT DOESN'T WARRENT the argument you make.

Yes, it does and so does Liars, fornicators, adulterors, witches, prostitutes, strippers, the list goes on..So, your point is what? We are aware that homosexuality is a sin.. So, what do you plan to do to win them to Christ?

Lastly, I don't consider everyone who claims they're a Christian to actually be one. We're told the fruits a believer will have - please read 1 Cor 6:9-10

If people continue to live in chronic lifestyles of these sins, it's a good indication that they never knew Christ personally.

I agree, if they continue in sin they probably are not Christians. Again, I ask what do you do besides rant and rave about these wretched sinners to help them see the light?

 

[Jaisen]

It always interests me more that the people picking apart Christians (to show love to 'sinners') always complain about us judging... WHILE IGNORING THEIR OWN judgments against their own supposed family members of Christ.
How is it a self proclaiming Christian can cut another Christian right down, then run to "LOVE" on the people living in sin who they think should be shown more love???

THe Bible actually states that if you don't LOVE your brothers & sisters, YOU AREN'T EVEN OF GOD'S FAMILY.
So why are people so quick to rip into Christians (for judging) in judgment against their own? Who's the enemy anyways?

(I'm not specifically saying this of you either- I see it all the time when somoene tries to defend other groups).

It's always BAD to judge... but GOOD to judge [fellow] Christians who point out what sin is.

Baffling.

Nadiine, this is my point... I get confused... It upsets me because I see people who say they are Christians do and say horrible things and then use defences like "It's okay, God says in the Bible I'm within my rights to do it."

It is baffling - Wouldn't a Christian want to try to emulate the love of Christ?

I'm not judging here - just asking questions and trying to open people's eyes to the possibilities. God is all knowing, all seeing - as your little tag suggests, you don't know everything, but you do know the Lord.

He is the only one who unequivocally knows what is in the hearts of all men (and women).

It's a hard topic, because a lot of people get very emotional about it on all sides. I'm just trying to get a point across - that God loves all of us and that, in judging a certain class of people in society, it makes us no better in God's eyes.

Satan throws out a lot of challenges to us, as Christians, we have to be able to get over the discrimination, hypocrisy and ignorance and find a way to combat him through using the love, faith and hope that Christ has provided us with.

In bagging out homosexuals, or particular races, or just someone we don't like because they come from a different socio-economic background - Satan wins because he has fooled many into being judgemental when Jesus told us not to be...

Is anyone seeing my point here, or am I rambling? I think I'll shut up now!

 

[ANM29]

Nadiine, this is my point... I get confused... It upsets me because I see people who say they are Christians do and say horrible things and then use defences like "It's okay, God says in the Bible I'm within my rights to do it."

It is baffling - Wouldn't a Christian want to try to emulate the love of Christ?

I'm not judging here - just asking questions and trying to open people's eyes to the possibilities. God is all knowing, all seeing - as your little tag suggests, you don't know everything, but you do know the Lord.

He is the only one who unequivocally knows what is in the hearts of all men (and women).

It's a hard topic, because a lot of people get very emotional about it on all sides. I'm just trying to get a point across - that God loves all of us and that, in judging a certain class of people in society, it makes us no better in God's eyes.

Satan throws out a lot of challenges to us, as Christians, we have to be able to get over the discrimination, hypocrisy and ignorance and find a way to combat him through using the love, faith and hope that Christ has provided us with.

In bagging out homosexuals, or particular races, or just someone we don't like because they come from a different socio-economic background - Satan wins because he has fooled many into being judgemental when Jesus told us not to be...

Is anyone seeing my point here, or am I rambling? I think I'll shut up now!

Didn't you know that Christians have the OK from God himself to bash Sinners..But Sinners have no right to CORRECT the self-righteous saint?..







BTW,
"Don't talk about us sinless Christians, we are holier than thou can't you see that..Can't you see how holy we are. We have no sins we are struggling with, we are spotless lambs... "

 

[Nadiine]

Precisely... I can think of a few celebrities that will have some explaining to do when they get to the other side...

The point is, the majority of homosexuals who are in monogamous relationships stay that way - meanwhile 8 out of 10 hetero couples are getting divorced; remarried; divorced; remarried, ad infinitum.

Nobody runs around with placards protesting about that!

This is an age old debate - and I personally want to try and reach out to anyone who says to me that they want to know Christ.

If they are uncertain if they are gay, then I would say they aren't and can be guided to live their life by Christ... But if they are gay, then I can show them that Christ died for their sins and that if they have faith in Him, he will open His heart to them and they will be filled with the Holy Spirit.

God loves everyone...

And I'm curious... How do you explain to someone who is born with both sets of genitals that they're doomed to hell, because no matter which way they turn, they're committing a sin.

Particularly in the case where their parents and doctors removed the wrong bits?

I suppose there are some that expect these poor souls to be virginal, pure people all their lives and to shun any chance of happiness... I don't think God would do that to someone and expect them to live a miserable existence on this Earth. Isn't it more likely that people like them are born to teach that judgement is the greatest sin?

Just a thought...

I think the hermaphrodite should be a thread all it's own becuz it's actually a separate medical issue - the truth about that is that the % is VERY low in the population of homosexuals.
But yes it does happen occasionally - and we cannot know what God intended them to be. Thankfully it's a very small % of a very small % of homosexuals that it occurs in.
But again, this is why we don't attack'judge in hatred - and just becuz there are a small % of medical questionables, DOESN'T MEAN WE GO TO OUR CORNERS & ALLOW LEGAL GAY MARRIAGES, etc.

Again, we cannot have 1 thing force us to stay silent & ignore the issues. There will always be a few cases that "slip thru the cracks" - not everyone gets a fair shake in life - like the Christians who get persecuted around the globe for starters.

And your point about hetero's w/ multiple partners while gays don't do that, the stats actually show the opposite. Gays are shown to be more promiscuous than hetero's.
Even IF that were true, it doesn't make for a case to support them; it's still SIN as per God's commandments. I don't care WHAT things look like down here to us - we're desensitized to SIN altogether.
Sympathizing with sin is no solution to any problem - it makes it WORSE.
Condone gay marriage & gay couples, and watch the NEW problems that stem from that - each new immoral standard sown, reaps other worse problems later.
(ie. look at abortion).

"GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED; THAT WHICH A MAN SOWS HE WILL REAP".

 

[ANM29]

Nadiine, this is my point... I get confused... It upsets me because I see people who say they are Christians do and say horrible things and then use defences like "It's okay, God says in the Bible I'm within my rights to do it."

It is baffling - Wouldn't a Christian want to try to emulate the love of Christ?

I'm not judging here - just asking questions and trying to open people's eyes to the possibilities. God is all knowing, all seeing - as your little tag suggests, you don't know everything, but you do know the Lord.

He is the only one who unequivocally knows what is in the hearts of all men (and women).

It's a hard topic, because a lot of people get very emotional about it on all sides. I'm just trying to get a point across - that God loves all of us and that, in judging a certain class of people in society, it makes us no better in God's eyes.

Satan throws out a lot of challenges to us, as Christians, we have to be able to get over the discrimination, hypocrisy and ignorance and find a way to combat him through using the love, faith and hope that Christ has provided us with.

In bagging out homosexuals, or particular races, or just someone we don't like because they come from a different socio-economic background - Satan wins because he has fooled many into being judgemental when Jesus told us not to be...

Is anyone seeing my point here, or am I rambling? I think I'll shut up now!

I agree with you, I get you totally!

 

[Jaisen]

I do call sin sin. Homosexuality is sin. I don't need to carry banners around reminding the world of it. Now that we know it is sin, what are we going to do about it? How can you or I correct Sin, isn't that the job of the Holy Spirit to bring us under conviction? At what point do you sit back and allow God to do his work after you have preached and thrown your bibles at homosexuals?


You are one of them on a rampage it seems. BTW, there are many Christians protesting homosexuals, I don't think I need to name any more names really. That is pretty clear and obvious as I look around at the world.



I didn't say you could not speak out agaisnt SIN. We ALREADY KNOW HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN, how about coming off your soapbox a minute to actually go out and minister to these SINNERS! HAVE YOU??



Yes, it does and so does Liars, fornicators, adulterors, witches, prostitutes, strippers, the list goes on..So, your point is what? We are aware that homosexuality is a sin.. So, what do you plan to do to win them to Christ?



I agree, if they continue in sin they probably are not Christians. Again, I ask what do you do besides rant and rave about these wretched sinners to help them see the light?

Thanks ANM29, I think you understand where I am coming from on this one...

It's what people CAN do that makes a big impact.

Look at the prevalence of Astrologists, Tarot readers, new age "churches" and the rest. Again, another section of society that slips under the radar, but very rarely does anyone go up against them...

Unfortunately, my mother reads Tarot Cards and I tell her every time I talk to her that perhaps she should not be doing the work of Satan. She keeps telling me that Jesus and his angels are with her and I know that isn't true.

I won't give up on her though; if there is even a glimmer of hope that I can show her back to the light of the real Jesus, then I will try. She's my mum and I love her; I don't like what she does, but that doesn't mean I can't try to help her come back to Christ.

I pray for her continually - and my sister... They just think I'm a religious nut; but like I keep telling them, I'm not religious... I'm a follower of Christ. Religion is a man-made thing - Being a follower of Christ is a gift from God that everyone has access to, if they seek Him out.

As for the comment regarding sin...

I do continue to sin, but am sinless in the eyes of God because I accepted the sacrifice of Christ. I say sorry, but I don't have to ask for forgiveness, because I did that once when I was born again.

I confessed my sins, repented, asked for forgiveness and made a commitment to Christ; to walk proud and tall as a follower of Christ - to accept rebuke, to accept ridicule from the mouths of non-believers and to spread the Word of the Gospel of Christ to all who will bother to listen.

Of course SIN is in the world, we're born into it - but God knows that and He gave us an out...

Praise Jesus! I saw the error of my ways and now, I live to serve Him, the King of Kings, Jesus Christ.

I have to go... Time to pick up my eldest from school.

God Bless You all... I'll be back later.

 

[ANM29]

I think the hermaphrodite should be a thread all it's own becuz it's actually a separate medical issue - the truth about that is that the % is VERY low in the population of homosexuals.
But yes it does happen occasionally - and we cannot know what God intended them to be. Thankfully it's a very small % of a very small % of homosexuals that it occurs in.
But again, this is why we don't attack'judge in hatred - and just becuz there are a small % of medical questionables, DOESN'T MEAN WE GO TO OUR CORNERS & ALLOW LEGAL GAY MARRIAGES, etc.

Again, we cannot have 1 thing force us to stay silent & ignore the issues. There will always be a few cases that "slip thru the cracks" - not everyone gets a fair shake in life - like the Christians who get persecuted around the globe for starters.

And your point about hetero's w/ multiple partners while gays don't do that, the stats actually show the opposite. Gays are shown to be more promiscuous than hetero's.
Even IF that were true, it doesn't make for a case to support them; it's still SIN as per God's commandments. I don't care WHAT things look like down here to us - we're desensitized to SIN altogether.
Sympathizing with sin is no solution to any problem - it makes it WORSE.
Condone gay marriage & gay couples, and watch the NEW problems that stem from that - each new immoral standard sown, reaps other worse problems later.
(ie. look at abortion).

"GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED; THAT WHICH A MAN SOWS HE WILL REAP".

You have absolutely no mercy or compassion to minister to anyone dear. NONE!..

You don't understand 'balance'. There is balance when dealing with these issues. Yes, we are to call sin sin, but you need to know how to handle the person as Jesus would have.

As a matter of fact your Jesus didn't go around condemning the world, did he? He didn't kick Mary when she was at his feet did he? He didn't call the woman caught in adultery a 'harlot' did he? How did he handle all these wretched sinners? We are to follow his example. Too many of us got our own agendas in the name of the Lord...You are not the only one who knows the scriptures.

You have a zeal but you have no mercy with that zeal, that is called NO BALANCE..Jesus had balance......

 

[ANM29]

Thanks ANM29, I think you understand where I am coming from on this one...

It's what people CAN do that makes a big impact.

Look at the prevalence of Astrologists, Tarot readers, new age "churches" and the rest. Again, another section of society that slips under the radar, but very rarely does anyone go up against them...

Unfortunately, my mother reads Tarot Cards and I tell her every time I talk to her that perhaps she should not be doing the work of Satan. She keeps telling me that Jesus and his angels are with her and I know that isn't true.

I won't give up on her though; if there is even a glimmer of hope that I can show her back to the light of the real Jesus, then I will try. She's my mum and I love her; I don't like what she does, but that doesn't mean I can't try to help her come back to Christ.

I pray for her continually - and my sister... They just think I'm a religious nut; but like I keep telling them, I'm not religious... I'm a follower of Christ. Religion is a man-made thing - Being a follower of Christ is a gift from God that everyone has access to, if they seek Him out.

As for the comment regarding sin...

I do continue to sin, but am sinless in the eyes of God because I accepted the sacrifice of Christ. I say sorry, but I don't have to ask for forgiveness, because I did that once when I was born again.

I confessed my sins, repented, asked for forgiveness and made a commitment to Christ; to walk proud and tall as a follower of Christ - to accept rebuke, to accept ridicule from the mouths of non-believers and to spread the Word of the Gospel of Christ to all who will bother to listen.

Of course SIN is in the world, we're born into it - but God knows that and He gave us an out...

Praise Jesus! I saw the error of my ways and now, I live to serve Him, the King of Kings, Jesus Christ.

I have to go... Time to pick up my eldest from school.

God Bless You all... I'll be back later.

I believe you know the Lord, I really do. As a matter of fact I am 110% sure you are a Christian.

You may not be totally there yet. You may not be totally set free from bondage, but God is still working on you. You are still a great work in progress. He will complete the work he started in you sweetie, He will complete it. ..Keep praying for your mother, God will set her free in his own time as well.

God Bless!