The Early Church Fathers and Alcohol/Wine

[AJB4]

I'm just wondering, in any of the early church father's writings, does it mention alcoholic wine (and I mean specifically alcoholic wine, not just 'wine' which could mean either grape juice or alcoholic wine)?

 

[repentant]

Wine is wine. The did not have fridges back then to keep grape juice cold. Therefore it would ferment and become alcholic within days..

But to answer your question, I can't recall. But It is mentioned in Scripture to drink some for stomach trouble.

 

[Akathist]

There is a Psalm we say at every Vespers service about God giving us wine to gladen man's heart.......

14 He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth:
15 wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart.

since the early church father's chose to use this Psalm in the service, and chose to use wine for the Eucharist, clearly it was acceptable.

The closest thing I can find to a quote about it is the importance of not over indulging in food and wine. (both together) Or to drink wine but not to be harmful to others:

Abba Hyperechius
It is better to eat meat and drink wine and not to eat the flesh of one's brethren through slander.

 

[repentant]

I remembered something from the Desert Father's..

It said that one or two glasses of wine is acceptable, but the third one is from the devil. I assume by third one, they mean this is around the time you would get drunk..

 

[rusmeister]

It is important, though, not to make hard and fast rules for other people.

Chesterton said something to the effect that we should thank God for Burgundy and brandy by not drinking too much of them.

 

[buzuxi02]

What gives you the strange idea that wine can be non-fermented? It is an oxymoron, wine only exists in a fermented state or else it would not be called wine.

 

[Akathist]

What gives you the strange idea that wine can be non-fermented? It is an oxymoron, wine only exists in a fermented state or else it would not be called wine.

I am not positive, but I suspect this phrase comes from a common practice in many protestant churches of using nonalcoholic "wine" for their "communion".

I have had many people be surprised that the EOC uses "real wine" even.

 

[Prawnik]

A lot of Evangelical Protestant churches support a total ban on drinking alcohol.

To substantiate this ban, they claim that everywhere the Bible says "wine" it means "grape juice".

 

[RobNJ]

A lot of Evangelical Protestant churches support a total ban on drinking alcohol.

To substantiate this ban, they claim that everywhere the Bible says "wine" it means "grape juice".

Ain't it the truth.... says the guy who had to pour 60 plastic shot glasses of Welch's & cut Wonderbread into little gummy cubes before communion in church- Back when I was a Reformed Elder

 

[eoe]

This is one of the most insane attempts at historical revisionism ever. It is just stupid.

Let's try this. If the wine back then did not have alcohol in it - how did people get drunk from drinking too much of it?

If Christians did not drink the wine then why were they rebuked for drinking too much at the agape feast?

Sheesh.

 

[kamikat]

How can "wine" mean either wine or juice? That is the craziest thing I've every heard. Do churches actualy teach that "wine" means grape juice? I thought they were the ones who took everything in the bible literally?!?!

 

[EastChief]

I've done a little research on the subject (by research, I mean I've read others' research) and it seems that there are two words for juice of the grape in the original manuscripts. One means fermented and the other does not. From what I've read, both words were often translated into wine. That is how wine can mean either fermented or unfermented grape juice. You have to look at the context I suppose.

I know how frustrating this gets. I work for people who get furious if you say Jesus made wine. They say drinking wine is a sin and if Jesus made it he would be sinning, therefore He could not have made it. Amazing.

 

[Guineverelyndy]

There are churches that really do teach that. In all my years of taking Protestant communion, I have never had real wine. It's always been grape juice.

 

[ufonium2]

I've done a little research on the subject (by research, I mean I've read others' research) and it seems that there are two words for juice of the grape in the original manuscripts. One means fermented and the other does not.

But, as others have mentioned, the only way to keep juice from becoming wine almost immediately is to refrigerate it. That necessitates either a large amount of ice or a refrigerator. Since there was no ice in ancient Palestine, and certainly no refrigerators, why would people living 2000 years ago in the Middle East have a word meaning unfermented juice? I have no problem with the idea that they had two words for wine. But I don't believe one of the words meant Welch's grape juice.

 

[Michael G]

Wine is wine so long as "is" means "is". If you can prove to me that "is" does not mean "is", then we will begin to figure out if wine means wine in the bible. Until then, I have no reason to question if the wine mentioned in the bible had alcohol in it because wine by definition is alcoholic.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

There needs to be a smiley for ROFL!!!!

That was pretty awesome.

 

[Thekla]

And wine was an important way to "cleanse" the water. When I was a kid (10)
our family visited Italy; my (Greek) mom mixed a bit of wine in our water, to kill the germs. Blech ! I suppose an excess in either direction could be summarized as "drunk or dysentery"

 

[Rowan]

But, as others have mentioned, the only way to keep juice from becoming wine almost immediately is to refrigerate it. That necessitates either a large amount of ice or a refrigerator. Since there was no ice in ancient Palestine, and certainly no refrigerators, why would people living 2000 years ago in the Middle East have a word meaning unfermented juice? I have no problem with the idea that they had two words for wine. But I don't believe one of the words meant Welch's grape juice.

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a direct correlation (or maybe a causation, if you want to consider it) around the advent of non-alcoholic wine in Communion among some Protestants and Welch's brand grape juice coming onto the scene?

 

[Canadian75]

I think the OP's question is legitimate since he is young and learning. However, and I'm sure it is unintentional, it seems the tone towards the OP is kind of sarcastic and condecending.

Of course I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) and perhaps that attitude is directed at the idea that wine is not alcoholic wine and not directed at the OP.


Forgive me for pointing it out, but it was just the impression I got as I read the thread and I didn't want the OP to feel like he asked a stupid question.


Forgive me.

Peace.

 

[Shubunkin]

The OP is certainly not asking a stupid question. The wine mentioned in the Bible was really wine. The wine at the last supper was really wine. Grape harvesting happens in the fall, and the Last Supper happened in the spring time. There could not be any Welch's Grape Juice involved after so many months without refrigeration. Archaeologists have not uncovered any Frigidaires or such yet in the Holy Land from that period.