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World before the flood

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Jase

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Since DiscipleDave has been active in this forum today, I'd like to clarify his post from the creation forum:

If you are able to hear it, then hear it. Before the Flood the atmosphere was different, Had more oxygen, less radiation from the sun, Carbon 14 was also different then it is today, this is why all the readings of age of things TODAY are wrong, because they would only be accurate, if we had the same air that we do today, even the same back then, But it wasn't, it was Totally different.
Aside from the fact that this is all complete speculation and isn't in anyway supported by the Bible, care to explain how humans could survive on more oxygen, and how we got less radiation? The amount of oxygen on Earth (23%) is fine tuned. Humans would have very likely never existed had it been any higher or lower. How was there less radiation from the Sun?


And how was carbon 14 different? And even if it were, what does that have to do with all the other forms of radiometric dating? The Age of the Earth is not measured by Carbon 14, so you still have a 4.5 billion year old Earth regardless of your Carbon14 conspiracy.

Before the Flood, there was a mile thick layer of water between atmosphere and Space, Where the ozone is today.
Oh dear, so many problems with this. First of all, there is technically no "end" to the atmosphere. It just gets less dense the higher up you go. Second of all, the Ozone is not in the outer limits of the majority of the atmosphere, before you get to what we call "space". The ozone is in the Stratosphere ( the layer of the atmosphere above where weather occurs). The Troposphere ( the part of the atmosphere we live in) goes to about 10miles above the Earth's surface. The stratosphere goes from there to about 30 miles. You still have the mesosphere/ionosphere, and the thermosphere between the Ozone layer and space.


Despite all of this, the other glaring problem with a layer of water above the atmosphere is that 1) it's extremely cold up there. The beginning of the Stratosphere is -71F. And while, it gets warmer at the top of that layer, it also gets less dense. When you get to the outer reaches of our atmosphere, density is so low that molecules are miles apart from each other. How do you have a cohesive sheet of water when one water molecule is 2 miles away from another one? And 2) there isn't enough gravity above the atmosphere to hold a 1 mile sheet of water around the Earth.

Before the flood the ozone layer was water, until which point that water rained upon the Earth for 40 days, this then depleting the layer of water.
:doh: If the ozone layer was "water" it isn't ozone. Water is H2O. Ozone is O3. They are completely different chemical compositions. Ozone works by absorbing incoming Ultraviolet radiation. Water doesn't work the same way. UV radiation can go through water which is why you can still get sunburn in a pool. And again, the Ozone is too high and too cold for it ever to melt and rain on Earth. Ozone is also highly toxic. Outta curiosity, what is your theory for how the early Earth was protected from Gamma rays and X-rays?





 

Jase

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Humans can and do survive on oxygen-enriched air.
But otherwise, I think YECs are just burying themselves by resorting to canopy hypothesis.
Well, yeah, they can survive on higher amounts, but it depends on the pressure. At certain pressures, increasing oxygen amounts become toxic.
 
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Jadis40

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Humans can and do survive on oxygen-enriched air.
But otherwise, I think YECs are just burying themselves by resorting to canopy hypothesis.

What's interesting is there are those among the YEC camp that seem to disregard that even AiG admits there are problems with the vapor canopy:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/tools/flood-waters.asp

I disagree with them on almost everything else, but at least on this issue they have enough scientific integrity to admit that it's unfeasible, and state that it is an argument that YECs shouldn't use.

And, as far as the question of dating, there are various radiometric dating methods that can be used. I refer specifically to this page:

http://www.asa3.org/aSA/resources/Wiens.html

Edit: There is something else - the whole "waters above the waters" stems directly from ancient Hebrew/Middle Eastern cosmology:

http://www.aarweb.org/syllabus/syllabi/g/gier/306/commoncosmos.htm

or

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/ThreeTieredUniverse.htm

When you have this picture in mind, it makes perfect sense why the author of Job thought that there were literal "storehouses" of snow, rain, hail. They didn't have a modern understanding of the hydrologic cycle.
 
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shernren

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Humans can and do survive on oxygen-enriched air.
But otherwise, I think YECs are just burying themselves by resorting to canopy hypothesis.
Flammability of practically anything would start to be a major concern as oxygen levels increase. Noah's Ark might have caught fire a few times before he can get around to finishing it.
 
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Assyrian

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Yes how do you see to paint the inside of the ark with pitch? Pitch, torches in an enclosed space with a high oxygen atmosphere... Do you need a pair of dogs or just watch Noah and his kids go 'woof'.

How do you melt the pitch in the first place?
 
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Jase

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"The amount of oxygen on Earth (23%) is fine tuned. Humans would have very likely never existed had it been any higher or lower."

You gots to be kidding! It drops to 22% and we all die?
No, but life has evolved to handle the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. Oxygen becomes poisonous to life at different quanities ( see the Oxygen Catastrophe).
 
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random_guy

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No, but life has evolved to handle the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. Oxygen becomes poisonous to life at different quanities ( see the Oxygen Catastrophe).

To add to this, I remember that early in the history of medicine, premature babies were exposed to higher levels of oxygen, but this caused them to go blind. Basically, higher oxygen levels != good health.

EDIT:

Also, reverse problem. Lower Sun radiation, less energy for life, less energy for plants to grow.
 
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