I was wrong

[~RENEE~]

There's the spirit of stupid running rampant all over this place today >.< Yeah I said it--The spirit of STUPID.

ROTFLOL honey I think that's been around for a long time.

 

[JimB]

Not to but;

Can God lie? 20 translations say NO!

So, you&#8217;re saying what ... majority wins?

\o/

Life is like drawing without an eraser.​

 

[jrlinz]

I think he was saying your version is less clear in this case than many other versions. Not to speak for Prob, but that is the way I took it.

 

[JesseRaymondBassett]

Lets keep this on topic folks. Also, try to be appropriate in your posts.

Thank you.

 

[jeolmstead]

That's like saying that because God breathes life that it's God's fault when the unmarried guy and gal who decide to have sex get pregnant.

God used a spirt that lie's. God told the spirit "go with them or go to them". The spirit, being the lyer that it is was merely did what it does.

It is an interesting comparison, but not really the same thing,


4. 2 Chronicles 18:22
"So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

This scripture clearly says The LORD “put the spirit”….”The LORD has decreed”

I really have no ax to grind in this debate. I didn’t write this, it’s in the bible.

It appears to me that the LORD “commissioned” a lie to overthrow the king.

Personally, I think it is a strain to read it any other way.

In light of this, I’m not able to categorically say “God can’t lie”. (When it appears that at least once that he did).

…..In this case it was a lie that brought about the will of the Father. In which case it was not a sin at all.

To say that God is not a man that He should lie, is to say that God does not lie like a man does. He does not break His promises (like a man does).

In any event, this is how I reconcile these passages.

John O.

 

[Hisgirl]

Wow. I'm kinda stunned here.

Foadle, my dear, in reading these threads, Matthew 12 came to mind "33 &#8220;Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit."

You have shown such good fruit. Bless you and may the Lord our God continue to open your eyes to His goodness and bountiful love.

Another story came to mind too... A pastor friend, John Sheasby, left the pulpit as God was calling him...wooing him to just spend time with the Father. He drove a truck for a season.

When he returned, he had such a revelation of grace, God's unmeasurable love and what it means to be called a 'son' that he now has been given access to gates around the world to shout of God's glorious goodness.

I pray such blessing for all who needs a fresh revelation of God's goodness.

 

[JimB]

I think he was saying your version is less clear in this case than many other versions. Not to speak for Prob, but that is the way I took it.

So, (as it usually is) it boils down to a matter of which translations best support our view. Since, as I have stated, the idea that it is impossible for God to lie comes from a single scripture that says as much, which, however, is sometimes translated “God does not lie” (NIV, NLT), we will have to see what the rest of the Bible has to say about God’s ability in this regard. That is why I have referred to Jesus’ statement “With God all things are possible” as the reason for believing that lying, as is anything (all things) is within God’s power though, because it is not in His character, “God does not lie.”

Whether it is impossible for Him to lie or He simply does not lie is pretty much incidental to the fact that GOD WILL NOT LIE. Ever. He never has, nor will He ever be less than what His character is.

\o/

​

Life is like drawing without an eraser.​

 

[probinson]

So, you&#8217;re saying what ... majority wins?

Uh no...

First off, I'm not talking about Titus 1:2, which, you are correct, some (2?) translations say God "does not" lie. I'm speaking of Hebrews 6:18, which, first, nullifies your "the idea that God can not lie comes from a single scripture" argument.

EVERY English translation, not just the majority, but EVERY single translation of Hebrews 6:18 available at biblegateway.com says either that God CAN NOT lie or that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to do so.

The statement, "God can lie, but He won't" is in direct opposition to Hebrews 6:18, which clearly and unambiguously states, no matter what your "preferred translation" that God CAN NOT lie and that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to do so.

This is not found in just one, but 3 different places in the Bible (Titus 1:2, 2 Timothy 2:13, Hebrews 6:18), along with other scriptures that aren't quite as blatant that have already been presented by others in this thread. It is not at all "building a doctrine" on "one scripture" as you've stated in the thread.

The fact of the matter is Hebrews 6:18 says clearly that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie in EVERY SINGLE TRANSLATION I could find. It really is that simple.

But to help you out further, here is the definition of Strong's Number 102, the word IMPOSSIBLE in the KJV.

 

[Hisgirl]

Uh no...

First off, I'm not talking about Titus 1:2, which, you are correct, some (2?) translations say God "does not" lie. I'm speaking of Hebrews 6:18, which, first, nullifies your "the idea that God can not lie comes from a single scripture" argument.

EVERY English translation, not just the majority, but EVERY single translation of Hebrews 6:18 available at biblegateway.com says either that God CAN NOT lie or that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to do so.

The statement, "God can lie, but He won't" is in direct opposition to Hebrews 6:18, which clearly and unambiguously states, no matter what your "preferred translation" that God CAN NOT lie and that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to do so.

This is not found in just one, but 3 different places in the Bible (Titus 1:2, 2 Timothy 2:13, Hebrews 6:18), along with other scriptures that aren't quite as blatant that have already been presented by others in this thread. It is not at all "building a doctrine" on "one scripture" as you've stated in the thread.

The fact of the matter is Hebrews 6:18 says clearly that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie in EVERY SINGLE TRANSLATION I could find. It really is that simple.

But to help you out further, here is the definition of Strong's Number 102, the word IMPOSSIBLE in the KJV.

Thank you for that excellent information Pete!

 

[jeolmstead]

Uh no...

First off, I'm not talking about Titus 1:2, which, you are correct, some (2?) translations say God "does not" lie. I'm speaking of Hebrews 6:18, which, first, nullifies your "the idea that God can not lie comes from a single scripture" argument.

EVERY English translation, not just the majority, but EVERY single translation of Hebrews 6:18 available at biblegateway.com says either that God CAN NOT lie or that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to do so.

The statement, "God can lie, but He won't" is in direct opposition to Hebrews 6:18, which clearly and unambiguously states, no matter what your "preferred translation" that God CAN NOT lie and that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to do so.

This is not found in just one, but 3 different places in the Bible (Titus 1:2, 2 Timothy 2:13, Hebrews 6:18), along with other scriptures that aren't quite as blatant that have already been presented by others in this thread. It is not at all "building a doctrine" on "one scripture" as you've stated in the thread.

The fact of the matter is Hebrews 6:18 says clearly that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie in EVERY SINGLE TRANSLATION I could find. It really is that simple.

But to help you out further, here is the definition of Strong's Number 102, the word IMPOSSIBLE in the KJV.

13When God made his promise to Abraham, since there was no one greater for him to swear by, he swore by himself, 14saying, "I will surely bless you and give you many descendants."[c] 15And so after waiting patiently, Abraham received what was promised.
16Men swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged.

The context of Heb 6:18 is that God will not go back on his promise. Specifically that the promise God made with Abraham (When he cut covenant with Him) was true.

The way I read this, God swore by &#8220;two unchangeable things&#8221; and because of this it is impossible for the promise to be a lie.

IMO this does not say that God can&#8217;t lie. What it does say is that it is impossible for God&#8217;s promise to Abraham to be a lie.

John O.

 

[jrlinz]

Looks pretty conclusive to me, Prob. Thanks.

 

[probinson]

The context of Heb 6:18 is that God will not go back on his promise. Specifically that the promise God made with Abraham (When he cut covenant with Him) was true.

The way I read this, God swore by “two unchangeable things” and because of this it is impossible for the promise to be a lie.

IMO this does not say that God can’t lie. What it does say is that it is impossible for God’s promise to Abraham to be a lie.

John O.

The scripture does not say that it is impossible for the promise to be a lie in any translation that I could find.

The scripture says, quite plainly, that it is impossible for God to lie.

 

[jeolmstead]

The scripture does not say that it is impossible for the promise to be a lie in any translation that I could find.

The scripture says, quite plainly, that it is impossible for God to lie.

My contention Pete is that in order to conclude that

It is impossible for God to lie from (Heb 6:18) you have to take that part of the verse out of the context in which it is written.

In the context, it means God does not go back on His oath or break His promises. It does not say (IMO) that God can&#8217;t lie.

John O.

 

[probinson]

My contention Pete is that in order to conclude that

It is impossible for God to lie from (Heb 6:18) you have to take that part of the verse out of the context in which it is written.

In the context, it means God does not go back on His oath or break His promises. It does not say (IMO) that God can’t lie.

John O.

My contention is that, in order to conclude that the impossibility referenced in this scripture has anything to do with the promise, you must read into, or flat out change, the clear meaning of what the text actually says.

You can cite the entire book of Hebrews for "context" should you so choose. The fact remains that every available translation that I could find says that it is impossible for God to lie, and that He CAN NOT lie. The context does not change this. Now if you can show me a single translation that says ANYTHING about it being impossible for the promise to be a lie, I'm all ears.

I'll post my research for you again here;

20 translations of scripture say it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie

 

[JimB]

The scripture does not say that it is impossible for the promise to be a lie in any translation that I could find.

The scripture says, quite plainly, that it is impossible for God to lie.

Technically, Hebrews 6.18 says that in specifically “two immutable things” it is impossible for God to lie, not because it is beyond His power, but because it is not in His nature. I would say it is more impossible for us to conceive of God lying than it is beyond His ability to do so.

\o/

​

Life is like drawing without an eraser.​

 

[jrlinz]

I just wonder how God feels about all this talk.

 

[probinson]

Technically, Hebrews 6.18 says that in specifically &#8220;two immutable things&#8221; it is impossible for God to lie, not because it is beyond His power, but because it is not in His nature. I would say it is more impossible for us to conceive of God lying than it is beyond His ability to do so.

Hebrews 6:18 makes no reference at all to the nature of God or His power.

And an "immutable" thing is simply something that can not be changed, i.e., because God can not lie....

Hebrews 6:18 (NLT)
So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us.

 

[jeolmstead]

My contention is that, in order to conclude that the impossibility referenced in this scripture has anything to do with the promise, you must read into, or flat out change, the clear meaning of what the text actually says.

You can cite the entire book of Hebrews for "context" should you so choose. The fact remains that every available translation that I could find says that it is impossible for God to lie, and that He CAN NOT lie. The context does not change this. Now if you can show me a single translation that says ANYTHING about it being impossible for the promise to be a lie, I'm all ears.

I'll post my research for you again here;

20 translations of scripture say it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie

The context of Heb 6 is about God honoring His promises. To properly understand 6:18 you have to keep it in the context in which it&#8217;s written.

You also need to reconcile your interpretation of the passage with the rest of the scripture.

I&#8217;ve already raised this issue:

If God can&#8217;t lie, how can He put a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets?

4. 2 Chronicles 18:22
"So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

In any event. My opinion bears no more weight than yours. The scripture is available for anyone who wants to read it.

John O.

 

[probinson]

The context of Heb 6 is about God honoring His promises. To properly understand 6:18 you have to keep it in the context in which it’s written.

You also need to reconcile your interpretation of the passage with the rest of the scripture.

I’ve already raised this issue:

If God can’t lie, how can He put a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets?

4. 2 Chronicles 18:22
"So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

In any event. My opinion bears no more weight than yours. The scripture is available for anyone who wants to read it.

John O.

Normally, I would agree with you on your last point. But when something is so clearly and unambiguously stated in scripture, I don't need my opinion or your opinion, and we certainly don't need to "interpret" anything. All we need is the ability to comprehend the statement "it is impossible for God to lie", which is plainly stated in every English translation of scripture that I could find.

Additionally, further scriptures have been presented in this thread to support the scriptural statement that God CAN NOT lie, and so it has already been reconciled with the rest of scripture.

It is not "my interpretation". It is the clear meaning of the text.

To answer your question about the scripture in 2 Chronicles, that in no way says that God can lie, and so it seems rather irrelevant to the current discussion, since my contention is that Hebrews 6:18 actually means what it plainly says, that God CAN NOT lie.

 

[JimB]

I just wonder how God feels about all this talk.

I suppose that depends on whether you feel you are right and others are wrong. If I am right, which of course I would say I am (just as you would say you are), then I might say God is displeased with those who are thinking contrary to what I believe and, ergo, is displeased with this thread.

But a third alternative may present itself. Maybe God is pleased that we are searching for truth &#8211; i.e., &#8220;the things the pertain to life and godliness&#8221; (2 Peter 1.3). I am being taught in these discussion just as much as I may think I am teaching and God desires that we &#8220;grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord&#8221; (2 Peter 3. 5)

\o/

God grants power for no other work than that of the kingdom.​