Prayers to Mary in concerning Matthew

[IamAdopted]

Is there Scriptural support for this? Are you quoting your pastor? What is the source for all these assumptions?

What makes you assume they are? Are you saying that when people are present with the Lord they are God like? Jesus stated when two or three of you gather in my name I am there in the midst of you. I see no where in scripture that says that when people leave their bodies that they will never leave us or forsake us. They are present with the Lord. They do not become like the Lord..They go to be with the Lord.. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 tells us that believers in Christ are asleep in Jesus, that is they are resting in Him but very much alive, for one who is sleeping is not dead but alive. so if they are sleeping how can they be omnipresent?

 

[IamAdopted]

Psalms 139:7-12 describes the omnipresence of God.

7(A)Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8(B)If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, (C)You are there.
9If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
10Even there Your hand will (D)lead me,
And Your right hand will lay hold of me.
11If I say, "Surely the (E)darkness will overwhelm me,
And the light around me will be night,"
12Even the (F)darkness is not dark to You,
And the night is as bright as the day
(G)Darkness and light are alike to You.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

So now God married Mary? I hope this is not what I am hearing from that one post..

Of course, many Mormons believe and teach that, although it's not official LDS doctrine - just a commonly held Mormon belief going back to the earliest days of the Church.

While I found that some Catholics SEEM to suggest something similar, I think it's mostly a vocabulary - terminology issue.

God has never been married.. And Mary was to marry Joseph. The Jewish people looked upon Children and a heritage from the Lord. So why would God not bless Mary with many children?

PERSONALLY, I tend to lean in that direction, too, puzzeled as to why God would punish Mary and Joseph - not just by withholding the precious gift of children but also the great blessing of marital intimacy. But, IMHO, it's an entirely moot issue. God chose to not tell us this bit of trivia in His Holy Word and I'm okay leaving it where He did.


Thank you!


Pax!


- Josiah



.

 

[repentant]

But that is completely pointless because Jesus is our only intercessor. Jesus said, "no one cometh unto the Father but by me."

He is our only intercessor to God as pertains to salvation. Is it ever said that there is no intercessor to Christ, or that we may not ask someone to pray and intercede for us? I seem to recall the virgin Mary intercessing to Jesus for the wedding party in Canna..didn't she ask Him to perform His first miracle? And He did it although it was not yet is time..for His mother, and just because she asked. Here we have our first and Scriptural account of someone (Virgin Mary) interceding on our behalf to Christ..

Brother, there are people that do really want to know. They mat not agree with it but they genuinely want to know and understand. You never know who may be looking at these posts.

Peace to you...

g

They are more than welcome in TAW, or to pm me. But I will not keep repeating myself.

 

[repentant]

Of course, many Mormons believe and teach that, although it's not official LDS doctrine - just a commonly held Mormon belief going back to the earliest days of the Church.

While I found that some Catholics SEEM to suggest something similar, I think it's mostly a vocabulary - terminology issue.






PERSONALLY, I tend to lean in that direction, too, puzzeled as to why God would punish Mary and Joseph - not just by withholding the precious gift of children but also the great blessing of marital intimacy. But, IMHO, it's an entirely moot issue. God chose to not tell us this bit of trivia in His Holy Word and I'm okay leaving it where He did.


Thank you!


Pax!


- Josiah



.

So celibacy is a punishment now? Do we ever say that God made them not have sexual relations? Could they have not chose this path themselves? Poor modern westernization and there skewed views on purity and punishment..

 

[leothelioness]

Nope, its taught in the Catholic Church as well. This concept that Mary had children with Joseph is a relatively new invention. Even Martin Luther and John Calvin believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, which makes the idea that she had relations with Jospeh an idea that is only about 400 years old, which would also make it a teaching of man, not of Christ and His Apostolic Church.

Hey Scott,

I know this is what the Catholic church teaches. I was addressing the poster's comment on their other children being the children of Joseph from a previous marriage.

My question to him was where did he get this info seeing as the Bible gives no indication whatsoever that Joseph was married once before nor that he had children from that marriage.

 

[E.C.]

Hey Scott,

I know this is what the Catholic church teaches. I was addressing the poster's comment on their other children being the children of Joseph from a previous marriage.

My question to him was where did he get this info seeing as the Bible gives no indication whatsoever that Joseph was married once before nor that he had children from that marriage.

Oh whoa! I had forgotten about this! Sorry.

Anyway, I've been reading the Bible lately, and I believe it was in Matthew, when they pharisees had said something to Christ along the lines of "Are you going to meet your mother and brothers?" The footnote at the bottom concerning this, read that "brothers" in this time and place could have meant any male relative of Jesus and possibly meant either 1) children from Joseph's previous marriage or 2) cousins of Christ because Mary and Joseph had no children.

 

[leothelioness]

He is our only intercessor to God as pertains to salvation.

He is our only intercessor, period. The Bible is very clear that Jesus lives to intercede for us and that our prayers pass on to God only through Him. That is why we pray in Jesus's name.

I seem to recall the virgin Mary intercessing to Jesus for the wedding party in Canna..didn't she ask Him to perform His first miracle? And He did it although it was not yet is time..for His mother, and just because she asked. Here we have our first and Scriptural account of someone (Virgin Mary) interceding on our behalf to Christ..

You totally blew this one out of proportion. I don't think intercession has anything to do with it.

 

[leothelioness]

Oh whoa! I had forgotten about this! Sorry.

Anyway, I've been reading the Bible lately, and I believe it was in Matthew, when they pharisees had said something to Christ along the lines of "Are you going to meet your mother and brothers?" The footnote at the bottom concerning this, read that "brothers" in this time and place could have meant any male relative of Jesus and possibly meant either 1) children from Joseph's previous marriage or 2) cousins of Christ because Mary and Joseph had no children.

I know. I've heard this explanation before. My question, however was how do you know Joseph was married before? You seem to state it like it's a well known fact. Where is this info?

 

[repentant]

He is our only intercessor, period. The Bible is very clear that Jesus lives to intercede for us and that our prayers pass on to God only through Him. That is why we pray in Jesus's name.

He is our intercessor to God, through Him we return to the presence of God, as it was prior to the fall. But there is nothing saying that we cannot not have intercessors for us to Jesus. Our prayer's pass on to the Father through Him, but can't someone pray to Jesus for us? Wouldn't you asking someone to pray for you be asking them for intercession? And you didn't say anything about the virgin Mary interceding to Jesus on behalf of the wedding party. A clearly Scriptural account of intercession.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Could they have not chose this path themselves?

Certianly, they COULD have chosen to withhold this from each other. But I don't agree that a theoretical possibility is evidence for a DOGMA being true and correct.

Is it theoretically possible that Jesus had 50 children? Sure. Does that mean He did? I hope you see my point.

Poor modern westernization and there skewed views on purity

Frankly, just speaking for me, I think it's poor westernization that has the skewed views on purity. This concept - raised consistently in an attempt to provide proof for the DOGMA of the Perpetual Virignity of Mary - that the blessed sharing of intimacies within the sacred bonds of Holy Matrimony somehow "defiles" the wife and makes her "impure" is, IMHO, the skewed western view. Yes, it certainly WAS a Greek/Roman view but not a Jewish one and certainly not supported in the Bible.




Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah



.

 

[repentant]

Certianly, they COULD have chosen to withhold this from each other. But I don't agree that a theoretical possibility is evidence for a DOGMA being true and correct.

Is it theoretically possible that Jesus had 50 children? Sure. Does that mean He did? I hope you see my point.

The evidence comes from the early Church. It comes from the Church Father's. Father's like St. Ignatius of Antioch who was a Disciple of St. John the Apostles. He wrote about the ever virginity of Mary. How is this not sufficient evidence? We have a Bishop who was taught directly from an Apostle, and not only an Apostle, but the Apostle whom Christ entrusted His mother's care. Are you telling me that John would not know if Mary was or wasn't ever virgin? Not to mention the fact that if it wasn't accepted and true back then, then something would have been mentioned criticizing Ignatius for his statement that she was ever virgin. History is plenty of evidence my friend.

We are all Christ's children

But that is a moot point because no on believes or teaches that. Unless you believe in the Divinci Code..

Frankly, just speaking for me, I think it's poor westernization that has the skewed views on purity. This concept - raised consistently in an attempt to provide proof for the DOGMA of the Perpetual Virignity of Mary - that the blessed sharing of intimacies within the sacred bonds of Holy Matrimony somehow "defiles" the wife and makes her "impure" is, IMHO, the skewed western view. Yes, it certainly WAS a Greek/Roman view but not a Jewish one and certainly not supported in the Bible.




Thank you.


Pax!


- Josiah



.

Well the fact is as mentioned many times already, Mary and Joseph were not married. Plus we have Paul who said it is better to be like him (celibant) than to be married. So obviously Paul thought being a virgin is much better than having sex, even in the union of marriage..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The evidence comes from the early Church. It comes from the Church Father's. Father's like St. Ignatius of Antioch who was a Disciple of St. John the Apostles. He wrote about the ever virginity of Mary.

And I should trust writings outside of the Bible for that?

If the Apostle Paul never mentioned Mary [except in Gala 4] in his Epistles , why should I believe what anyone outside of the Bible says about her.? Just wondering.

LUKE 3:23 And he was Jesus beginning as if of years 30 being son as,was to Law.


Galatians 4:4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under/upo
law/nomon,

 

[repentant]

And I should trust writings outside of the Bible for that?

If the Apostle Paul never mentioned Mary [except in Gala 4] in his Epistles , why should I believe what anyone outside of the Bible says about her.? Just wondering.

LUKE 3:23 And he was Jesus beginning as if of years 30 being son as,was to Law.


Galatians 4:4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under/upo
law/nomon,

Believe what you want. Does the Bible say that everything is in there? Do you have any clue what the Epistles are? Obviously not...

I believe a Disciple of an Apostle is a very valid source...not to mention 2000 years of agreement on the matter within the Church..

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hmm . . . "poor westernization" led to the dogma of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? . . yet it is DOGMA in the East too . . .

The official acts of the Fifth Ecumenical Council held at Constantinople in 553 refer to Mary as aeiparthenos (i.e. ever-virgin). For example, an anathema against the 'three chapters' condemns those who deny:

that nativity of these latter days when the Word of God came down from the heavens and was made flesh of holy and glorious Mary, mother of God and ever-virgin, and was born from her ...

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq18.html
​

Strange how this is some how the result of the "poor westernization" of Christianity . . . .


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Believe what you want. Does the Bible say that everything is in there? Do you have any clue what the Epistles are? Obviously not...

I believe a Disciple of an Apostle is a very valid source...not to mention 2000 years of agreement on the matter within the Church..

If it is not in the Bible, then I will always be "skeptical" of writings outside of it to prove the Bible. Sorry, that is just me.

Nahum 3:2 The sound of a Whip, And the sound of the rattling of a wheel, And of a prancing horse, and of a bounding chariot, Of a horseman mounting.

Revelation 18:8 because of this, in one day, shall come her Stripes [#4127], death, and sorrow, and famine; and in fire she shall be utterly burned, because strong [is] the Lord God who is judging her; [Isaiah 28 "Scourge"]

 

[repentant]

If it is not in the Bible, then I will always be "skeptical" of writings outside of it to prove the Bible. Sorry, that is just me.

Nahum 3:2 The sound of a Whip, And the sound of the rattling of a wheel, And of a prancing horse, and of a bounding chariot, Of a horseman mounting.

Revelation 18:8 because of this, in one day, shall come her Stripes [#4127], death, and sorrow, and famine; and in fire she shall be utterly burned, because strong [is] the Lord God who is judging her; [Isaiah 28 "Scourge"]

Ok do you believe in the Trinity? Do you know that the Epistles were written to correct and affirm already established Churches? And what do the verses you reffererd have to do with? Do you subscribe to "Bible verse of the day"?

 

[thereselittleflower]

Strange how Mormonism keeps coming up in the CO section of CF as though it is somehow a valid entity to make valid comparisons to true Christianity . . . .


.

 

[thereselittleflower]

If it is not in the Bible, then I will always be "skeptical" of writings outside of it to prove the Bible. Sorry, that is just me.

Nahum 3:2 The sound of a Whip, And the sound of the rattling of a wheel, And of a prancing horse, and of a bounding chariot, Of a horseman mounting.

Revelation 18:8 because of this, in one day, shall come her Stripes [#4127], death, and sorrow, and famine; and in fire she shall be utterly burned, because strong [is] the Lord God who is judging her; [Isaiah 28 "Scourge"]

Are you skeptical of the Trinity as well then?


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ok do you believe in the Trinity? Do you know that the Epistles were written to correct and affirm already established Churches? And what do the verses you reffererd have to do with? Do you subscribe to "Bible verse of the day"?

I read many verses a day while translating the books of the Bible and harmonizing them.

(NKJV) Deuteronomy 4:11 "Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the Mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness.

Out with the OLD:

(NKJV) Revelation 8:8 Then the second angel sounded: And [something] like a great Mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.