What does it mean to be spiritually dead?

[-Truth-]

This is the way I sometimes describe myself. I never had any type of spiritual experience, even during the two years that I spent as a born again Christian. Perhaps I am not spiritually dead, but spiritually deaf, spiritually blind and generally spiritually unaware. Is this why I have failed to experience God, why I have no awareness of God’s presence, of the oneness of creation, of God contacting me in any way?

Also, is there anything that I can do about the situation? I know that I am missing out on an important aspect of life. I have tried such things as silence, Bible reading, prayer and meditation, but I remain spiritually untouched.

It is not just Christians who despair of me. For example followers of Buddhism and of new age spirituality, and people who feel at one with creation, have also noted my spiritual emptiness.

I believe it has to do with the makeup of the brain. Mainly in the frontal lobe where these “experiences” take place according to brain imaging techniques.

I grew up very “spiritual” having many meaningful “experiences”. Mostly when creating music or meditating. But I know (today) these are methods of triggering neurotransmitters that cause these experiences.

In the same way that someone might have better vision or hearing someone might be more able to trigger these experiences.

And if we can show this happening in the brain and explain how and why these experiences occur there is no reason to assume it is coming form outside of the brain.

 

[suzybeezy]

Thread moved to Questions by Non-Christians

 

[rocklife]

This is the way I sometimes describe myself. I never had any type of spiritual experience, even during the two years that I spent as a born again Christian. Perhaps I am not spiritually dead, but spiritually deaf, spiritually blind and generally spiritually unaware. Is this why I have failed to experience God, why I have no awareness of God’s presence, of the oneness of creation, of God contacting me in any way?

Also, is there anything that I can do about the situation? I know that I am missing out on an important aspect of life. I have tried such things as silence, Bible reading, prayer and meditation, but I remain spiritually untouched.

It is not just Christians who despair of me. For example followers of Buddhism and of new age spirituality, and people who feel at one with creation, have also noted my spiritual emptiness.

God is Spirit, when you are with Him 100% in love word and deed and continue walking with Him, you are Spiritually alive, He is the Spirit. Often small prayers and quiet meditations on life and His Words and being a servant you will see spiritual growth (spiritually growing meaning just more of Him, being with Him more and knowing Him more). But just like it is hard to see a plant growing every day, don't be discouraged if you can't see it. Eventually you will see it if you persevere to the end.

 

[Rafael]

This is the way I sometimes describe myself. I never had any type of spiritual experience, even during the two years that I spent as a born again Christian. Perhaps I am not spiritually dead, but spiritually deaf, spiritually blind and generally spiritually unaware. Is this why I have failed to experience God, why I have no awareness of God’s presence, of the oneness of creation, of God contacting me in any way?

Also, is there anything that I can do about the situation? I know that I am missing out on an important aspect of life. I have tried such things as silence, Bible reading, prayer and meditation, but I remain spiritually untouched.

It is not just Christians who despair of me. For example followers of Buddhism and of new age spirituality, and people who feel at one with creation, have also noted my spiritual emptiness.

Spiritual awareness comes with time living and wisdom. All life comes from God and is sustained by Him who is Spirit, so even those who have not let God activate and regenerate them spiritually, they still move and exist within realms where the spirit can be observed. Look at the world and at life. Does it not say volumes about the spirituality contained within it? Can't you see the evil of selfishness and greed or they way all things are merchandised to the point that thousands are allowed to starve to death and go naked because of a few pieces of paper many in the world?? Of course you can, and that is a very great evil that all mankind shares as a responsibility although it is very often shoved off on God whose laws, provision, and leadership were rejected by man.
Why do we miss the awesome spiritual beauty and design given this creation and then atribute that to accident when we can't even give a good reason why there is mass or gravity...or at least we are unable to control these elemental powers we know exist.
The reality we experience is so improbable, yet we take it all for granted and seem blind to the spiritual just like Jesus said, "having eyes, yet not seeing, and ears, but not hearing". The thing is, we are aware of these spiritual things, but should not compare our experience to others so much. We fight a spiritual battle each day within ourselves between good and evil - flesh against spirit, so it is probably more practical in life and less grandized as we might want to think. It is more of a one day at a time struggle to overcome this body of death that seeks to control the mind over the spirit. The people who decide to not see or not to hear are the ones who are in trouble because they are then giving in to the flesh which truly is a body bound for death. The person who accepts that they must learn and grow away from spiritual deadness is the one who fights the good fight of faith and overcomes the body of death by the spiritual until the final reward of a new eternal body is given. Jesus told us that His words were spirit and life, and we are to follow Him and His word in this world - to overcome our self-life and live the life of giving ours away for the benefit of others as servants. He said to be chief among men was to be a servant, and He came, God in the flesh, as a servant to man and washed their feet and gave HIs life for us all.
Don't give up or cast away the precious seed of faith that God gives, for it is more precious than gold.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Galatians 5:16-17 So I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict.

Luke 9:23-25 Then he said to the crowd, "If any of you wants to be my follower, you must put aside your selfish ambition, shoulder your cross daily, and follow me. If you try to keep your life for yourself, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for me, you will find true life. And how do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose or forfeit your own soul in the process?

Mt 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

Romans 1:19-22 ¶ For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.

Heb 10:35 Do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord, no matter what happens. Remember the great reward it brings you!

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight for what we believe. Hold tightly to the eternal life that God has given you, which you have confessed so well before many witnesses.

 

[losthope]

To quatona. You wrote: Same here. What do you think of this solution:
You and I declare our ways of experiencing True Spirituality and everyone else spiritually dead?
An interesting idea. However, if I knew what True Spirituality was, I would not have asked the question. It is possible, as some other contributors (including Zoot and Truth) have hinted, that spiritual experience is something generated internally by the brain and does not come from any external source. But I am keeping an open mind. Maybe it comes from within, maybe it comes from God, or from something else altogether.

To Sol Invictus. You wrote: Try reading anything by Eckhart Tolle
I did try to read Eckhart Tolle’s “The Power of Now.” It just seemed to be full of unjustified statements, and descriptions of a mind which might be like Eckhart’s mind but not like my mind. The book also draws on people’s existing spiritual experiences and insights – but I don’t have any of those to draw on. In summary, I could not identify with the book at all.

To Beastt. You wrote: Since spirituality is nothing more than a concept held by many, for which there is no credible evidence, I would say that being spiritually dead means you're making decisions based on intellect rather than emotion, (AKA:"the Heart).
For me, that is exactly the way it is. Just intellect. No emotions, no “heart”, no spirituality.

 

[losthope]

To quatona. You wrote: Same here. What do you think of this solution:
You and I declare our ways of experiencing True Spirituality and everyone else spiritually dead?
An interesting idea. However, if I knew what True Spirituality was, I would not have asked the question. It is possible, as some other contributors (including Zoot and Truth) have hinted, that spiritual experience is something generated internally by the brain and does not come from any external source. But I am keeping an open mind. Maybe it comes from within, maybe it comes from God, or from something else altogether.

To Sol Invictus. You wrote: Try reading anything by Eckhart Tolle
I did try to read Eckhart Tolle’s “The Power of Now.” It just seemed to be full of unjustified statements, and descriptions of a mind which might be like Eckhart’s mind but not like my mind. The book also draws on people’s existing spiritual experiences and insights – but I don’t have any of those to draw on. In summary, I could not identify with the book at all.

To Beastt. You wrote: Since spirituality is nothing more than a concept held by many, for which there is no credible evidence, I would say that being spiritually dead means you're making decisions based on intellect rather than emotion, (AKA:"the Heart).
For me, that is exactly the way it is. Just intellect. No emotions, no “heart”, no spirituality.

 

[losthope]

To Eudaimonist. You wrote: Honestly, I suspect (but can't prove) that this inability to have "spiritual experiences" is genetic. Maybe this will console you somewhat?You may be right, but I cannot see many Christians accepting this, because it implies that some people are genetically unable to know God.
You also wrote this, about ways of finding spirituality: Or looking at the night sky. Or walking through a forest. Or climbing Mount Everest. Or watching a space shuttle launch.
There are many possible sources, perhaps only a few of which will resonate with you, assuming spirituality is open to you.
None of them, nor anything else, resonate with me, though I do recognise that they resonate with other people.

 

[losthope]

You quoted verses from Matthew 25, but I do not see their significance to the problem. I suggest that if a person does not know they are having a supernatural experience, then as far as they are concerned it was just an ordinary experience. Like them, I am not saying that I never had a spiritual experience, but if I did, I am totally unaware of it, and so it has made no difference to my life.
You also wrote this: To me their are two kinds of truth in the world:
1. Something that is true becuse you know from your own experiences, knowledge and senses that it is true.
2. Something that is true because an individual knows it in their heart to be true.
Well, for me there is only #1. I have never believed anything in my “heart”, whatever that means.

 

[losthope]

You wrote: You will find your spirituality in helping others in need.
I think we all will find spirituallity in helping others or we will not find it. I don't believe going off to a moutain top and staying by yourself will allow you to achieve true spirituallity. I am not against meditation and mountain tops but i don't think they take the place of love your neighbor. And we are all capable of finding spiritually. Every last one of us.
I spend much of my time working as a volunteer helping people in need. It has never done anything for me spiritually. I hope you are right in saying that every last one of us is capable of finding spirituality. But I personally have failed to find it – anywhere.

 

[losthope]

You wrote this: Dear losthope, you say that you were a born again Christian, also you tried to find out about Spirituality from Buddhism and new-age Spiritualism. I have never heard of anybody who was really searching the Holy Spirit, and not finding Him, perhaps you were not sure yourself what you really wanted to find. If I may point out, losthope, God told us to search, and we will find, ask Jesus, our Saviour, to help you become spiritually alive. If you ask sincerely, and then thank the Lord for helping you, it will be done. It may take some time for you to feel spirit-filled, but you will certainly not find it in Buddhism, or any new-world or other spiritualism. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity, and only He can fill you spiritually. I say this kindly and humbly, losthope, and send greeings. Emmy, sister in Christ.Yes, I was (or at least I thought I was) a born again Christian for two years in the 1970s. But I did not try to find out about spirituality from Buddhism and new age spiritualism. It is more that in conversation with followers of Buddhism and new age spirituality it has become clear that I lack spiritual awareness. I have only looked for spirituality within Christianity.
You say that it may take some time for me to feel spirit-filled. Well, for more than thirty years I have searched for God but have not made contact with any of the three persons of the trinity. In other words, I have searched the Holy Spirit but found nothing, I have asked Jesus to help me become spiritually alive but (so far) my prayers, and the prayers of many other people for me, have not been answered. I remain spiritually “lost”, totally untouched by any aspect of spiritual experience. I appreciate your sincerity, but I am living proof of the fact that all of those prayers have not been answered, that someone can search the Holy Spirit and find nothing. The reason why I started this post was the hope that perhaps someone could suggest something that might help. Unfortunately more than 30 years of prayer have not helped me at all. Nor have the promises in the Bible. Sorry, I really appreciate your concern, Emmy, but I have to tell you the truth.

 

[losthope]

You wrote this: God is Spirit, when you are with Him 100% in love word and deed and continue walking with Him, you are Spiritually alive, He is the Spirit. Often small prayers and quiet meditations on life and His Words and being a servant you will see spiritual growth (spiritually growing meaning just more of Him, being with Him more and knowing Him more). But just like it is hard to see a plant growing every day, don't be discouraged if you can't see it. Eventually you will see it if you persevere to the end.I agree that it is difficult to see something growing every day, but growth may be seen over a longer time. In my case I did not persevere to the end. I spent two years as a Christian, with many small prayers, quiet meditations and being a servant, but there was no observable growth whatsoever. I remained spiritually unaware. I am still certain that my two years as a Christian (or at least, thinking that I was a Christian) were a total failure in that I never had any kind of spiritual experience or awareness of God. For that reason I am sure that my decision to give up my Christian commitments was correct. I am still spiritually unaware more than 30 years of searching later, despite my prayers and the prayers of many Christians. It is not that I want more of God, want to be with God more, or want to know God more. As far as I am aware I have never had anything of God, never been with God at all, never known God at all. Even though I offered my life to the Lord all those years ago. I did become discouraged when I saw no growth. In fact I do not think there was even germination, let alone growth. I am still baffled even about what the word “spirit” means. It is my complete lack of spiritual awareness that makes me wonder if I am spiritually dead, blind, deaf, or whatever. It would be wonderful to be spiritually alive in the way you describe it, but how do I get there?

 

[losthope]

You wrote this: Spiritual awareness comes with time living and wisdom. I HAVE BEEN LIVING LONGER THAN YOU, RAFAEL, BUT STILL HAVE ZERO SPIRITUAL AWARENESS. All life comes from God and is sustained by Him who is Spirit, so even those who have not let God activate and regenerate them spiritually, they still move and exist within realms where the spirit can be observed. YES, BUT HOW CAN I OBSERVE IT? Look at the world and at life. Does it not say volumes about the spirituality contained within it? IT MAY SAY VOLUMES TO YOU, BUT IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT SPIRITUALITY TO ME. Can't you see the evil of selfishness and greed or they way all things are merchandised to the point that thousands are allowed to starve to death and go naked because of a few pieces of paper many in the world?? Of course you can, and that is a very great evil that all mankind shares as a responsibility although it is very often shoved off on God whose laws, provision, and leadership were rejected by man. YES, I SEE THESE THINGS, BUT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOU LINK THEM TO SPIRITUALITY.
Why do we miss the awesome spiritual beauty and design given this creation and then atribute that to accident when we can't even give a good reason why there is mass or gravity...or at least we are unable to control these elemental powers we know exist.
The reality we experience is so improbable, yet we take it all for granted and seem blind to the spiritual just like Jesus said, "having eyes, yet not seeing, and ears, but not hearing". YES, THAT DESCRIBES ME VERY WELL, IN A SPIRITUAL SENSE. I SEE AND HEAR NOTHING SPIRITUAL. The thing is, we are aware of these spiritual things, but should not compare our experience to others so much. YOU MAY BE AWARE OF SPIRITUAL THINGS, BUT I AM NOT. We fight a spiritual battle each day within ourselves between good and evil - flesh against spirit, so it is probably more practical in life and less grandized as we might want to think. It is more of a one day at a time struggle to overcome this body of death that seeks to control the mind over the spirit. IF THERE IS A STRUGGLE BETWEEN FLESH AND SPIRIT WITHIN ME, THEN ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT THE FLESH OBVIOUSLY WON, BECAUSE AS FAR AS I AM AWARE THE SPIRIT IS DEAD. The people who decide to not see or not to hear are the ones who are in trouble because they are then giving in to the flesh which truly is a body bound for death. I HOPE YOU ARE NOT TELLING ME THAT I DECIDE NOT TO SEE OR HEAR. FOR ME IT IS NOT A MATTER OF CHOICE, IT IS A MATTER OF INABILITY (OR DO I MEAN DISABILITY?). The person who accepts that they must learn and grow away from spiritual deadness is the one who fights the good fight of faith and overcomes the body of death by the spiritual until the final reward of a new eternal body is given. MAYBE, BUT HOW DO I FIGHT SPIRITUALITY IF I HAVE NO SPIRITUAL AWARENESS? SECOND, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN LIFE AFTER DEATH – IS THIS BECAUSE I HAVE NO ETERNAL SPIRIT WITHIN ME, I WONDER? Jesus told us that His words were spirit and life, and we are to follow Him and His word in this world - to overcome our self-life and live the life of giving ours away for the benefit of others as servants. He said to be chief among men was to be a servant, and He came, God in the flesh, as a servant to man and washed their feet and gave HIs life for us all.
Don't give up or cast away the precious seed of faith that God gives, for it is more precious than gold. FAITH THAT GOD GIVES… NOT TO ME, UNFORTUNATELY.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN LIFE AFTER DEATH

Galatians 5:16-17 So I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict. SOUNDS GOOD. BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ME WHEN I HAVE NO AWARENESS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Luke 9:23-25 Then he said to the crowd, "If any of you wants to be my follower, you must put aside your selfish ambition, shoulder your cross daily, and follow me. If you try to keep your life for yourself, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for me, you will find true life. And how do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose or forfeit your own soul in the process? SOUL. NOW THERE’S ANOTHER WORD THAT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

Mt 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

Romans 1:19-22 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God. PEOPLE HAVE SUGGESTED THIS TO ME, BECAUSE PRESUMABLY THEY SEE SOMETHING SPIRITUAL IN CREATION. I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING SPIRITUAL IN CREATION. IN OTHER WORDS, I DO NOT SEE THOSE INVISIBLE QUALITIES OF GOD’S ETERNAL POWER AND DIVINE NATURE. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.

Heb 10:35 Do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord, no matter what happens. Remember the great reward it brings you! I AM NOT INTERESTED IN LIFE AFTER DEATH.

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight for what we believe. Hold tightly to the eternal life that God has given you, which you have confessed so well before many witnesses. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN LIFE AFTER DEATH.

As I have written several times, I have no interest in life after death. I wonder if this is some kind of confirmation that I am spiritually dead, because I am told that it is a person’s spirit that is the eternal part of a person. However, in my case I have no awareness of having a spirit. Indeed, although understand in theory what is meant by a person’s spirit; I cannot relate to the concept myself.

Perhaps you can now understand why I describe myself as spiritually dead, or blind, or deaf. You have made many statements about people’s spiritual awareness, as if you are assuming that I really do have at least some primitive kind of spiritual insight but have not recognised it for what it is. No, I repeat that I have zero spiritual awareness. I do not disbelieve you when you say that people in general do have spiritual experiences, that they are moved by the wonders of creation, that they recognise the battle between flesh and spirit, that they desire eternal life, that the Holy Spirit acts in their lives. But please, do not assume that I share any of these things.
Spiritual awareness seems to be something that many people do have. Not me. I appear to be in a minority in this respect, at least among the contributors to Christian Forums. I suspect that there is something inside me that prevents me having access to spirituality. If so, then I will never be able to find God, or do I mean that God will never be able to find me? On the other hand, if the majority of people were spiritually unaware like me, than quite possibly spiritual awareness would be classified as a type of mental condition.

 

[rocklife]

It would be wonderful to be spiritually alive in the way you describe it, but how do I get there?

thank you for your honest replies. I don't know if I can really answer this question for you. I am not eloquent, I am only a 5 year old christian, I do feel God with me every day. I remember being a non-christian and one day in my car driving to the job I hated, smoking a cigarette and being already a little buzzed from smoking pot, I could feel the distance from God in that one moment. I remember that very vividly, and then I just ignored God on purpose, until a few laters when I really needed change and hated that life.

I don't know how to tell anyone else to change their lives, I didn't change my life, I asked God to change my life, and I was done with my old life, I hated it so much. I was completely open to whatever God directed, and only Him and His truths, not to make any person happy, including pastors and churchgoers who may not have been giving me wise advice. I read the bible and saw a lot of warnings in there about church leaders, I take them seriously.

I guess that is the biggest thing to watch out for, is not to just follow churches, but to make sure you are following the Biblical Jesus and Holy Spirit. And come to the point that He is worth it all, even so much that you no longer fear death, that is New Testament teaching (and Old). What is impossible for man is possible with God.

I have this faith, because I have experienced Jesus cleansing my conscience from my old life of sinful living. I used to have guilt ridden conscience, even had a nervous breakdown one time (I was already a drug dealer secretly and criminal, then I discovered my sales job was scamming and lying to people in sweepstakes scam, my conscience couldn't take it). Jesus is the Only way I see of saving from sins, and offering something past death. I have experience death threats, and my son's dad tried to kill me. I had police help to leave him, right before I became a christian. Being close to death made me seek answers about life, what's the point, what about if I die, what then? what about my son? why can evil win like that if he killed me? I have looked at buddhism and islam and many other philosophies, they don't give answers, they give maybe this and that, not definite answers of life and death. Jesus as sacrifice of sins and the way to God and eternal life and saving from sins is wonderful. He changed me, I didn't change myself. But I did do everything in my small power to help get as close to Him as possible, including slowly but surely working prayerfully with Him to get rid of all bad habits and even bad friends, and only continually working to get closer to Him, all prayerfully, and He has been doing that.

it is also important not to seek approval from people much, mainly just God, approval from other christians and people will come along, but make sure it is God (the Biblical one) who you are seeking, even watch out for churchgoers (that is a bible warning). Test all things if they are in the Narrow way Jesus talks about.

 

[Rafael]

Perhaps you can now understand why I describe myself as spiritually dead, or blind, or deaf. You have made many statements about people’s spiritual awareness, as if you are assuming that I really do have at least some primitive kind of spiritual insight but have not recognised it for what it is. No, I repeat that I have zero spiritual awareness. I do not disbelieve you when you say that people in general do have spiritual experiences, that they are moved by the wonders of creation, that they recognise the battle between flesh and spirit, that they desire eternal life, that the Holy Spirit acts in their lives. But please, do not assume that I share any of these things.
Spiritual awareness seems to be something that many people do have. Not me. I appear to be in a minority in this respect, at least among the contributors to Christian Forums. I suspect that there is something inside me that prevents me having access to spirituality. If so, then I will never be able to find God, or do I mean that God will never be able to find me? On the other hand, if the majority of people were spiritually unaware like me, than quite possibly spiritual awareness would be classified as a type of mental condition.

I guess that I misunderstood your original title, posed as a question, that was not really that, but became more of a statement of non-faith as it moved into the body of your original post. I went for the question part and thought to try to encourage you to know that just living life does envolve spiritual experience whether we choose to acknowledge and be aware of it or not. It takes choice to seek and then see by submitting ourselves to God. Whatever prevents us from wanting God and all that He has for us would seem to be a problem for you as it was for me and all others born of the flesh nature.
I really don't want to nor can I argue your position for you and respect your choice to believe what you will. I believe that God never turns away from the heart that is contrite and humble, as His words says, and if we want nothing of God and perfer blindness and death, then that is what we will have. For me, I look forward with great anticipation, the future in God's kingdom. To know as I am known and to be set free of all that has dragged me down in this temporal life will be a wonderful thing in my eyes.
I, of course, wish only the best for you and only desired to help you maybe see something good for a future.

 

[Zeena]

This is the way I sometimes describe myself. I never had any type of spiritual experience, even during the two years that I spent as a born again Christian. Perhaps I am not spiritually dead, but spiritually deaf, spiritually blind and generally spiritually unaware. Is this why I have failed to experience God, why I have no awareness of God’s presence, of the oneness of creation, of God contacting me in any way?

Also, is there anything that I can do about the situation? I know that I am missing out on an important aspect of life. I have tried such things as silence, Bible reading, prayer and meditation, but I remain spiritually untouched.

It is not just Christians who despair of me. For example followers of Buddhism and of new age spirituality, and people who feel at one with creation, have also noted my spiritual emptiness.

Some Scripture for you!!! :XD

Isaiah 42:19
Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant?

Matthew 23:16-17
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Revelation 3:17
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

Matthew 9:28
And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

Matthew 11:5
The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Matthew 15:30-31
And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

Luke 4:18-19
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[losthope]

thank you for your honest replies. I don't know if I can really answer this question for you. I am not eloquent, I am only a 5 year old christian, I do feel God with me every day. I remember being a non-christian and one day in my car driving to the job I hated, smoking a cigarette and being already a little buzzed from smoking pot, I could feel the distance from God in that one moment. I remember that very vividly, and then I just ignored God on purpose, until a few laters when I really needed change and hated that life.

I don't know how to tell anyone else to change their lives, I didn't change my life, I asked God to change my life, and I was done with my old life, I hated it so much. I was completely open to whatever God directed, and only Him and His truths, not to make any person happy, including pastors and churchgoers who may not have been giving me wise advice. I read the bible and saw a lot of warnings in there about church leaders, I take them seriously.

I guess that is the biggest thing to watch out for, is not to just follow churches, but to make sure you are following the Biblical Jesus and Holy Spirit. And come to the point that He is worth it all, even so much that you no longer fear death, that is New Testament teaching (and Old). What is impossible for man is possible with God.

I have this faith, because I have experienced Jesus cleansing my conscience from my old life of sinful living. I used to have guilt ridden conscience, even had a nervous breakdown one time (I was already a drug dealer secretly and criminal, then I discovered my sales job was scamming and lying to people in sweepstakes scam, my conscience couldn't take it). Jesus is the Only way I see of saving from sins, and offering something past death. I have experience death threats, and my son's dad tried to kill me. I had police help to leave him, right before I became a christian. Being close to death made me seek answers about life, what's the point, what about if I die, what then? what about my son? why can evil win like that if he killed me? I have looked at buddhism and islam and many other philosophies, they don't give answers, they give maybe this and that, not definite answers of life and death. Jesus as sacrifice of sins and the way to God and eternal life and saving from sins is wonderful. He changed me, I didn't change myself. But I did do everything in my small power to help get as close to Him as possible, including slowly but surely working prayerfully with Him to get rid of all bad habits and even bad friends, and only continually working to get closer to Him, all prayerfully, and He has been doing that.

it is also important not to seek approval from people much, mainly just God, approval from other christians and people will come along, but make sure it is God (the Biblical one) who you are seeking, even watch out for churchgoers (that is a bible warning). Test all things if they are in the Narrow way Jesus talks about.

Thank you for your comments and for sharing some painful experiences in your life. I appreciate your honesty. I only wish I could follow your advice. Unfortunately I cannot, because several times you write about responding to spiritual experiences, and I have never had a spiritual experience to respond to.

As a Christian you say that you feel God with you every day, and as a non-Christian you said that you once felt the distance from God. And that you ignored God on purpose. I have never felt God at all, neither close to me nor at a distance. I am certainly not ignoring God on purpose, because I would have to perceive God in order to ignore God, and I don’t.

You were open to whatever God directed. Again, I have no experience of God’s direction.

Follow the biblical Jesus and the Holy Spirit… I would love to follow the Holy Spirit, but cannot until I become aware of the Holy Spirit and where the Spirit is leading me.

However, I agree when you write that what is impossible for man is possible for God. I suspect that there is nothing I can do in my own strength, that could make me become spiritually aware. God could possibly help me to gain spiritual awareness; I have certainly asked God to do this.

Unlike you, I have never experienced Jesus working on my conscience. Similarly I have no experience of the Holy Spirit convicting me of sin – and this may be a necessary preliminary to becoming a Christian. This may be why I have never been touched by the idea of needing a saviour, nor of the need for eternal life.

It must be great to work prayerfully together with Jesus. Is it wrong of me to covet your relationship with the Lord?

I understand your warning about being sure to seek God and the narrow way. But to do this I would need spiritual gifts such as the discernment of spirits, wisdom and a word of knowledge. While I have zero awareness of anything spiritual, I am unlikely to gain these spiritual gifts.

Once again, thank you rocklife. I am not in any way trying to dismiss your spiritual awareness, or your relationship with God. I am simply trying to describe how I experience life, with zero spiritual awareness. It is not that I choose to ignore the spiritual things. I am just totally unaware of them, except for what other people tell me.

 

[losthope]

I guess that I misunderstood your original title, posed as a question, that was not really that, but became more of a statement of non-faith as it moved into the body of your original post. I went for the question part and thought to try to encourage you to know that just living life does envolve spiritual experience whether we choose to acknowledge and be aware of it or not. It takes choice to seek and then see by submitting ourselves to God. Whatever prevents us from wanting God and all that He has for us would seem to be a problem for you as it was for me and all others born of the flesh nature.
I really don't want to nor can I argue your position for you and respect your choice to believe what you will. I believe that God never turns away from the heart that is contrite and humble, as His words says, and if we want nothing of God and perfer blindness and death, then that is what we will have. For me, I look forward with great anticipation, the future in God's kingdom. To know as I am known and to be set free of all that has dragged me down in this temporal life will be a wonderful thing in my eyes.
I, of course, wish only the best for you and only desired to help you maybe see something good for a future.

My original question, “What does it mean to be spiritually dead?” really was posed as a question. The rest of my original post was a clarification of what I meant by being spiritually dead, using my own situation as an example. However, I understand why you could also regard it as a statement of non-faith, although that was not my intention. I do want to believe, but need first to get in touch in some way (for example being prompted by the Holy Spirit) with the God that I want to be able to trust and serve.

You say that living life does involve spiritual experience whether we choose to acknowledge it or be aware of it or not. For me, I do acknowledge that life involves spiritual experience – for most people but alas not for me. I certainly do not choose to deny spiritual experience in my life; I repeat, I am totally unaware of any spiritual experience in my life. As far as I am aware there is nothing to deny. To me, spiritual experience is something that other people try to explain to me, sometimes with difficulty. It is not something that I know about personally.

I agree that it takes choice to seek by submitting ourselves to God. I did these things many years ago. But submitting myself to God did not, unfortunately, help me to see God or experience God in any way.

You wrote this: “Whatever prevents us from wanting God and all that He has for us would seem to be a problem for you” That is not the way it is for me. I do want God. But something is preventing me from finding God. Or preventing God from finding me, the lost sheep.

I was not putting forward a statement of my non-belief. Instead I was explaining my non-experience despite having been a believer. I can only repeat that I did not choose to be spiritually dead, blind, deaf, but that seems to be the way that I am. Looking at it from the Christian point of view, since I have been spiritually unaware all my life, you could perhaps argue that God made me this way. One day I might discover why God made me this way, spiritually unaware. But please, don’t suggest that I choose to be spiritually unaware. It is not something that I have chosen. It is simply the way that my body seems to function (or malfunction).

I would love to be able to share your joy in the things that God is doing for you.

 

[losthope]

Response to Zeena

You quoted several verses from the Bible, most of them including the words blind or deaf. Sorry, but I cannot understand the relevance of any of these verses. I was writing about spiritual death, blindness, deafness – a concept that I do not really understand but it does seem to be biblical. If you want an encouraging verse, I would choose Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit” I would certainly classify myself as being very poor indeed spiritually.

 

[Zeena]

O wow! Glad to see your still frequenting your thread LostHope!!!

This is the way I sometimes describe myself. I never had any type of spiritual experience, even during the two years that I spent as a born again Christian. Perhaps I am not spiritually dead, but spiritually deaf, spiritually blind and generally spiritually unaware. Is this why I have failed to experience God, why I have no awareness of God’s presence, of the oneness of creation, of God contacting me in any way?

Also, is there anything that I can do about the situation? I know that I am missing out on an important aspect of life. I have tried such things as silence, Bible reading, prayer and meditation, but I remain spiritually untouched.

It is not just Christians who despair of me. For example followers of Buddhism and of new age spirituality, and people who feel at one with creation, have also noted my spiritual emptiness.

The bolded text was the reason I chose the blind & deaf Scriptures.. Mabey I could have made this more clear..But I'm glad you responded nonetheless!

And, if you truly see yourself as 'poor in spirit' why not go to the ROCK, from which you were hewn?

He has LIFE for us;HIS Life!

And He, is pretty much the ONLY One not deaf, dumb, blind, mute, wretched, poor and miserable, naked and wanting!

God indeed does many miraclulous things in order to show a man the end from it's beginning.. It seems to me as if the Spirit of the Lord has lead you to this revelation for a purpose..

Could it be that God has somthing better for you in the Life of Jesus?!?

 

[Zeena]

I'ma share a little, if that's ok..

I've recently had mind-numbing pain in my left thigh..
It seems to only come about as I am lying down [and ONLY on my back]

I have been diagnosed [spelling?] with a deteriorating spinal column along my lower vertebrea.. And I truly believe this is due to sin in my body!

Earlier today, I decided to go see the doctors [oh, how I loathe subjecting myself to thier prodding! I have still yet to go and am headed out the door as I write this..] While having quiet time with the Lord Jesus during my daily devotions thoughts just started pouring over me..

How wretched, miserable, naked and poor I REALLY am! [the thoughts]

I took those thoughts captive to the obedience of Jesus Christ and His Peace washed over me while He spoke "I have given you my Life sister".. I started balling of course, for so rarely do I have the opportunity to witness the Life of Christ in me that I immediatley felt ashamed.. I took that thought as well, captive to the obedience of Jesus Christ and asked the Lord "How do I submit!!!?!?!".. At which point I yet again took THAT thought captive, and so on, and so on..

My point is, WE ARE ALL THESE [EVIL] THINGS AND MORE APART FROM THE LIFE OF JESUS!

We need HIS Life, and to do that we must yield to Him to recieve it from Him!

He is the One who see's the whole picture..

He is the One who is God!