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Why is Fundamental Christians so down on Homosexuality?

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intricatic

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Look friends. you can not say that Homosexuals are doing anything wrong, if you are also condoning eating food that God calls unclean and an abomination. The laws against sexual deviation and homosexuality are given together with Gods dietary laws. He says to eat that which is unclean is an abomiation.
The Gentile foreigners living in Israel weren't expected to keep the dietary laws. Why, then, would this have changed after Christ? There's plenty of reason for it to have changed universally, but it takes some critique to understand it.

But moreover, the new covenant gave a total inversion of the means by which people are considered 'clean' and 'unclean', 'righteous' and 'unrighteous'. To live righteously, one is called righteous - that does not mean to follow ritual dietary laws or purity regulations, as laws and civil ordinances are not the means by which one becomes righteous.

My dear Christian brothers and sisters, God's law is for our good. This thread was started to illustrate the inconsistency of condemning Homosexuals and defending eating unclean food. This I did not to defend Homosexuals but to show a doctrine, a practice, that is not biblical in regards to how the word of God and his instructions are used.
And you've done so extremely well. When Isaiah says "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little...." does this mean the teachers are adding to the Law, or that they're utilizing it as a standard that it wasn't meant to be utilized as?

Isaiah 28
15 Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death,
And with Sheol we are in agreement.
When the overflowing scourge passes through,
It will not come to us,
For we have made lies our refuge,
And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

If it is OK to eat Pork, then it is also OK to mary your own sister. They appear in the same laws of God in the same book. Wake up people someone has been selling you a line of bad investments from the Pulpits. We can be fooled once in a whuile, but since we own bibles and are now able to read and pray for ourselves, there really isn't any excuse to continue being fooled.
So you take the vision in Acts to be purely symbolic? Why would God use a concept revolving around the dietary Laws to speak of people the way which is implied through it? This is very strange. The form the vision takes is similar to the parables Christ gave - it can and must be taken as specific to what was given, and the meaning extracted from what is obviously presented - but the obvious nature of the vision isn't an abstraction meant to be discarded.

The very argument you're presenting would demand such an interpretation - non-doctrinal, non-theological, simply the obvious meaning and the implications it yields to us.

Acts 10
9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

What does this mean?
 
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lilymarie

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My uncle was a butcher and I apprenticed under him as a teenager. I didn't complete my apprenticeship, but I worked under him long enough to learn two things:

1. pigs are herbavores, not carnivores

2. not all cuts of pork are greasy

In addition, living on the Chesapeake, where our region is fueled by the fishing industry, particularly shellfish, has given me some insight into crabs and different mollusks, too.

Did you know that crabmeat and oysters are both very clean foods? It's true. They have a highly complex filtering system, just as God gave to all animals.

Crabs eat mostly fish. That's right, the same fish that your article assures us are clean.

Oysters eat microscopic organisms not "muck", as the article claims.

The article doesn't list a source for this information because there isn't one. It isn't true.

The truth is that assuming they're all prepared properly, you're more likely to get sick from striper or flounder than you are from pork or shellfish.

For the record, we're having a fish fry Saturday night and we're planning to have several bushels of crabs there.

I have not one problem, either morally or health-wise, in eating them.

If somebody else does, that's fine. But, for me, I'm going to have to go with Romans 14:14.

I think what God is addressing is that pigs eat slop and that can cause this trichinosis. I know I get sick from it and this is no lie.

However, I don't think the article mentioned crab and I do enjoy crab every now and again. However, sometimes I think they are spiderish; they are aracnoids or whatever that word is. Anyhow, crab is a rarity for me.

My Mom's best friend was raised in Alaska, so she brings back the best seafood in the world. It's pure heaven.

As far as our whole current food chain though, there are often problems here and there with everything just about.

That bird flu was a bit of scare, but seems under control which is a very good thing.

However, I don't know what's in pig slop but it doesn't sound too good what they eat. What if pigs eat feces? EWWWWWWWWWW! Because I just read pigs can get the streptococcus germ too, which comes from fecal matter. But sometimes streptococcus comes from incorrect butchering processes and can be in beef too.

Anyhow, pigs eat a lot of strange things. They are like Hoover vacuum cleaners, somewhat like dogs.

Farm fed pigs under strict control could be another thing altogether.

However, I won't eat it because of the fact I got so sick. It doesn't attract my taste buds.

Once my sister got really sick on chicken soup and now she has no desire for chicken soup. That can just happen. One looses a taste for something after they've gotten sick from it.

I won't eat clams either. I got way too sick from those and one even looked green. I had no idea these were bad clams served at a very classy restaurant, and they wouldn't give us all who got sick a free meal either! :D Which they should have!

Anyhow, Charles, I also believe we are not under the strict dietary laws anymore, but there is much wisdom in the Levitical diet nonetheless.
 
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MikeMcK

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I think what God is addressing is that pigs eat slop and that can cause this trichinosis. I know I get sick from it and this is no lie.

Pigs only eat slop if they're fed slop.

Pig farmers don't give their pigs slop. They give them corn.

In the wild they don't eat slop. They eat acorns and root vegetables.

Once my sister got really sick on chicken soup and now she has no desire for chicken soup. That can just happen. One looses a taste for something after they've gotten sick from it.

But that's quite a bit different than saying that it's bad.
 
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Giver

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Homosexuality
The act is evil!
I believe God allows people to be or become homosexuals, because so many people have taken their eyes off of the true God. The world now worships the god of money, power, and philosophy/education/intelligence.

Paul tells us this in (1 Corinthians) only he describes the false gods differently.

I personally believe that a person who is homosexual (if God has called them) can be healed. If as Paul tells us, it is a condition that happened because they or most people took their eyes off God, then to become whole again it would seem that getting ones eyes totally on God should heal.

I was advised, by the Holy Spirit, to tell a person, whom Jesus told me was a homosexual; he should imagine (get a picture of in his mind) of Jesus on the cross, and then placing themselves under Jesus feet. Letting his blood drip on his head.

Romans 1:18-25) “The anger of God is being revealed from heaven against all the impiety and depravity of men who keep truth imprisoned in their wickedness. For what can be known about God is perfectly plain to them since God himself has made it plain. Ever since God created the world his everlasting power and deity, however invisible, have been there for the mind to see in the things he has make. That is why such people are without excuse; they knew God and yet refused to honor him as God or to thank him; instead, they made nonsense out of logic and their empty minds were darkened. The more they called themselves philosophers, the more stupid they grew, until they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for a worthless imitation, for the image of mortal man, of birds, of quadrupeds and reptiles. That is why God left them to their filthy enjoyments and the practices with which they dishonor their own bodies, since they have given up natural intercourse to be consumed with passion for each other, men doing shameless things with men and getting an appropriate reward for their perversion.”

(Romans 1:26-32) “That is why God has abandoned them to degrading passions; why their women have turned from natural intercourse to unnatural practices, and why their menfolk have given up natural intercourse to be consumed with passion for each other, men, doing shameless things with men and getting an appropriate reward for their perversion.

In other words, since they refused to see it was rational to acknowledge God, God has left them to their own irrational ideas and to their monstrous behavior. And so they are steeped in all sorts of depravity, rottenness, greed and malice, and addicted to envy, murder, wrangling, treachery and spite. Libelers, slanderers, enemies of God, rude, arrogant and boastful enterprising in sin, rebellious to parents, without brains, honor, love or pity. They know what God’s verdict is; that those who behave like this deserve to die, and yet the do it; and what is worse, encourage others to do the same.”

(1 Corinthians 5:11-13) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slanderer or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that. It is not my business to pass judgement on those outside. Of those who are inside, you can surely be the judges. But of those who are outside, God is the judge.” ‘You must drive out this evil-doer from among you.’
 
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Andyman_1970

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So unless you don't clip off the edges of your beard (you do have a beard, don't you?) then you're just as guilty as a 'homosexual'.


It's ridiculous, Christians will ignore the book of Leviticus' laws when it applies to them (beards, clothing, food, etc.) but when it comes to Homosexuals (who they obviously hate, despite Levitius 19:15,17, & 18) they quote Leviticus like it's undeniable.

Well said bro.............:thumbsup: The contradictory nature of the arguement using Leviticus is amusing to say the least.

I believe you used the correct word there.........hate. The problem is Jesus teaches we are to unconditionally love those we hate the most.
 
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lilymarie

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Pigs only eat slop if they're fed slop.

Pig farmers don't give their pigs slop. They give them corn.

In the wild they don't eat slop. They eat acorns and root vegetables.



But that's quite a bit different than saying that it's bad.

I just read farm raised pigs eat meat as well as grains?

Anyhow, this says pigs are omnivours: That is like dogs who will eat anything. Ick.

Eat like a pig

Pigs, hogs, and boars are all omnivores. Their varied diet can include small reptiles, mammals, and carrion along with grasses, water plants, and fruit. They use that tough snout to root in the soil for food items such as leaves, roots, bulbs, insects, and earthworms. Because of this behavior, wild swine have become infamous for rooting through and destroying large portions of farmer's crops. At the San Diego Zoo and the Wild Animal Park our pigs are offered omnivore pellets and vegetables.
 
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MikeMcK

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I just read farm raised pigs eat meat as well as grains?

Anyhow, this says pigs are omnivours: That is like dogs who will eat anything. Ick.

Eat like a pig

Pigs, hogs, and boars are all omnivores. Their varied diet can include small reptiles, mammals, and carrion along with grasses, water plants, and fruit. They use that tough snout to root in the soil for food items such as leaves, roots, bulbs, insects, and earthworms. Because of this behavior, wild swine have become infamous for rooting through and destroying large portions of farmer's crops. At the San Diego Zoo and the Wild Animal Park our pigs are offered omnivore pellets and vegetables.

Let's say that this is true. Which of these is a bad thing for pigs to eat?
 
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Charles YTK

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And, as I've explained to you before, God has declared that there are no longer "unclean foods".

That IS Christian doctrine. But it is not scriptural. Unless you can demonstrate what no one else has ever found.

On the contrary, the NT goes on to repeat that homosexuality is a sin.

Maybe that is because everyone was eating Kosher and no one needed to be chastised like the ones who were misbehaving sexually. And two of the 4 laws given to the Gentiles who are coming to faith are Kosher laws and all of them are Torah laws.



And the laws against sexual deviation are repeated in the NT, after the laws against unlcean foods were abolished.

Where does it say Dietary laws are abolished but sexual sin is not?



But it isn't inconsistent. They're two different things.

So is do not commit murder and do not commit aultery. They are separate, but they are both given by God and both still valid.



Actually, 1 Cor 5 says otherwise.

You know about horses and carts right? Paul saying that the man who married his fathers wife was sinning, does not lay down a New testament law. Paul is speaking on the authority already given in the law of God. Paul is not making a new law. It is the old law that Paul is exercising. Paul never specifically says to love God that I can recall, but it is still a commandment. He never says not to bow down to Idols, but it is still a law from before.
 
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icedtea

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That IS Christian doctrine. But it is not scriptural.





Where does it say Dietary laws are abolished but sexual sin is not?
Christian doctrine is from scripture. Are you saying if one is a sin the other is too? I think sex outside marriage is sin.
 
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Heehehe. Ever visit a hog farm? Or the stock yards?


Even then the trichina worms are microscopic and can only be killed by making sure the Pork is the minimum 170 deg Fahrenheit, but even at hte minimum there's probably 80% of the time still loads of them left.

Just google "Trichina Worm" and find out the disease it causes :)

Christian doctrine is from scripture

Yeah, prove that all "Christian Doctrine" is from scripture.

What a funny statement.
 
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You know, I'd never known that. Is everybody getting lucky or just cooking it long enough? I recall my youthful fun of eating raw hamburger.

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/techniques/fluorescence/gallery/trichina.html

The most common way that humans become infected with trichinosis is by eating raw or undercooked pork. People can also become infected by eating wild game, such as bear, cougar, fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus. Within a few days, the victim becomes feverish and experiences abdominal symptoms: pain, nausea, vomiting, and watery stools. A few days later the victim may still have pains in the joints, headaches, and swelling of the face. In addition, severe pain develops in the muscles of the limbs, in the chest, and in the eyes. Breathing is often painful because the diaphragm becomes heavily infected. The illness gradually subsides after seven to 14 days, although it can be fatal for about five percent of people. As of now, there is no known specific treatment for trichinosis, but it can be prevented. Trichina cysts in meat can be destroyed completely by thoroughly cooking the meat to 170° F (77° C) or by freezing the meat for three to four weeks. Cured or smoked pork is not safe for consumption.

Little tid-bit for you :)
 
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Charles YTK

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The Gentile foreigners living in Israel weren't expected to keep the dietary laws. Why, then, would this have changed after Christ? There's plenty of reason for it to have changed universally, but it takes some critique to understand it.

Gentiles who adjoin themselves to Israel are part of Israel and as such are to keep the laws God gave Israel. Those who believe in Messiah are are saved by his sacrifice are grafted into Israel.

Num 15: [14] And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do. [15] One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. [16] One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

If a stranger was eating unclean food he would not be allowed to make a sarifice.

But moreover, the new covenant gave a total inversion of the means by which people are considered 'clean' and 'unclean', 'righteous' and 'unrighteous'. To live righteously, one is called righteous - that does not mean to follow ritual dietary laws or purity regulations, as laws and civil ordinances are not the means by which one becomes righteous.

How so? The way people were made righteous in the Old covenant was through faith. Is that different now?

What does it mean to be righteous?

Here is the word Righteous:


1342dikaios { dik’-ah-yos}

from 1349; TDNT - 2:182,168; adj

AV - righteous 41, just 33, right 5, meet 2; 81

GK - 1465 { δίκαιος }

1) righteous, observing divine laws
1a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

Strong, J. The exhaustive concordance of the Bible :

Here is one from the Old testament:

6662tsaddiyq { tsad-deek’}

from 6663; TWOT - 1879c; adj

AV - righteous 162, just 42, righteous man 1, lawful 1; 206

GK - 7404 { צַדִּיק }

1) just, lawful, righteous
1a) just, righteous (in government)
1b) just, right (in one’s cause)
1c) just, righteous (in conduct and character)
1d) righteous (as justified and vindicated by God)
1e) right, correct, lawful

Strong, J. The exhaustive concordance of the Bible :


Abraham was a man who believed God and he was counted as righteous. Did his faith create a way of life within him?

Here is the testimony concerning Abraham:

Gen 26: [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.



So you take the vision in Acts to be purely symbolic? Why would God use a concept revolving around the dietary Laws to speak of people the way which is implied through it? This is very strange. The form the vision takes is similar to the parables Christ gave - it can and must be taken as specific to what was given, and the meaning extracted from what is obviously presented - but the obvious nature of the vision isn't an abstraction meant to be discarded.

It doesn't rally matter how we take it. Peter was given the meaning of the vision and he said it was about the acceptance of the Gentiles. And he never brings up any change in Dietary laws. He goes to stay with Cornelius, but Cornelius is a God fearer and ate a Kosher diet. Don't take the acceptance of the Gentiles and make it about food. It was not about that acording to Peter. I think we must accept his explanation.

The very argument you're presenting would demand such an interpretation - non-doctrinal, non-theological, simply the obvious meaning and the implications it yields to us.


Let’s look for a moment at this incident with Peter and the sheet. Peter says it is about the acceptance of the Gentiles. Food is really not the subject in this passage at all. To make it about food for the sake of our love for Pork and Shell-fish costs us the true meaning of the passage which is he acceptance of the Gentiles for salvation through faith in Messiah.

Peter was hungry and thinking about the smells of dinner cooking when he fell into a trance and has this vision and sees the sheet held at the corners and filled will all sorts of unclean animals. And three times Peter refuses to kill and eat as the voice tells him. And each time a voice says to him Quit treating as unclean that which God has made clean. As soon as the vision ends three gentile men show up at the door and desire Peter to come with them to the house of Cornelius a Gentile Roman centurion. By Rabbinical law this would have made a Jew unclean. But a voice speaks to Peter and says “Go with these Gentile men fearing nothing because I myself have sent them to get you.”

So Peter invites them in which is another thing that would have been forbidden by the Rabbinical laws. And the following day they go to Cornelius’ house and in response to Peter’s sharing the Gospel they receive the baptism in the Holy spirit and are saved same as it had happened with the Jewish believers.

Later when members of the circumcision party (Pharisees who were saved) hear about this they are disturbed and inquire of Peter why he went into the house of a Gentile and ate with them. And he explains to them concerning the vision and the voice that had told him to go with the Gentile and to meet with Cornelius and how God had shown that the Gentiles too were accepted in faith, AS Gentiles, without conversion (circumcision) as evidence by the fact that God had poured out the Holy Spirit on them just as he had on the Jewish believers. The conversation never turns again to food. There s only this one accusation by the Pharisees. And Peter says the whole thing was about the salvation of the gentiles.

Should we assume that since Cornelius was a gentile that he served Peter and the other men unclean food? This certainly would not be showing proper hospitality to a guest, especially one whom you have invited. But let’s dig deeper and see what might have been on the menu. What do we know about Cornelius?

AC 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, [2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. [3] He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius..

So Cornelius was a Devout Man…which means that he was one who lived according to Gods laws, He believed in and worshiped the one God.. He was a man who Feared God. In terms of 2nd temple Judaism this means he was a “God Fearer” which is to say that he was at some level a Proselyte, and observed Jewish law and worshipped the God of Israel but had not converted and become a Jew through the Rabbinical ritual of Gentile conversion which included circumcision. If he had he would have been called a Proseluteo, or convert. Notice too that he prays always and it was at the 9th hour while in prayer that Cornelius had this word from God telling him to send to Peter to receive instruction in how to be saved. The 9th hour is at the time of the evening sacrifices (Oblation) when all Jewish men would have stopped what they were doing in order to pray.

I suspect that being a Roman officer Cornelius had come reservations about conversion to become a Jew and being circumcised, as this may have been damaging to his status as a Roman officer. But he is praying for God to show him how to be saved. It also says that he loved the Jewish people and gave charity to help the poorer Jews. But God does not need an ethnic reassignment through conversion to save a man. It was only a Rabbinical law that said that only a Jew(Circumcised man) could be saved.

In acts 10 : 22 I says ; And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews,

So it is really clear that Cornelius is a “God Fearer” a “Near Proselyte” or what is called a “Righteous Gentile” which mean that he loves God and his people and lives according to Gods commandments and is part of the Synagogue community. It also says that he and all his household are devout, which indicates that Cornelius is raising his family in the fear and admonition of the Lord. It would be very unlikely (I would say impossible) that Cornelius would have served or eaten anything that was unclean. He is respected and accepted by the local synagogue community as a righteous man, which means he lives by Gods law.

It is interesting to note that there was another Centurion who had earlier on also asked for Yeshua to come and heal his sick and dying servant. He too is described as a God Fearer and a righteous man. Those first Gentiles who were living with faith in God and who believed in Yeshua, were living in accord with the laws of God.
 
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Charles YTK

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Christian doctrine is from scripture. Are you saying if one is a sin the other is too? I think sex outside marriage is sin.
Not all Christian doctrine is from scripture. I think you have seen plenty discussed in these forum that are not scriptural.

1 John 3: [3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
 
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lilymarie

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Let's say that this is true. Which of these is a bad thing for pigs to eat?

Actually, I already said, but didn't clarify why, that we are not held under the dietary laws anymore. However, I think it's fascinating how God's word is true, and as far as pigs -- they didn't have farm regulations back then. This was God teaching early man; however, we have evolved with nutrition and how to stay healthier with regards to boils and such and such. My point was that God even had to tell us what food was good to eat and what was not, and we're not grateful for that.

Also, most Christians refuse to read the OT and there is so much to gain by reading the OT.

But I know what Romans 14 says... it's basically saying one WHO eats does so unto The Lord and the one WHO abstains from eating does so also unto The Lord -- however, the point was EACH should be FULLY convinced in their own mind. Oh, and I'm kind of in the vegetable category for the most part.

Though as far as understanding the divine inspiration of the Levitical diet is amazing to me, as now I see that Lobster and Shrimp are like the cleaners of the ocean of muck. (And the website I posted never said "crab"... it said lobster and shrimp) Also, I study nutrition as a passion of mine and am semi organic as well.

My posts have been geered towards the wisdom of this word and there is wisdom in the Levitical food laws, but now what we eat has been declared a "choice".

However, that doesn't mean sexual immorality is a choice under Christ.

Romans 14

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[b] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Footnotes:
  1. Romans 14:11 Isaiah 45:23
 
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