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The problem of evil

K

Keturah

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This is one of the main reasons I can't believe in god. For those that aren't familiar with "the problem of evil" a little intro...

Ok, it's pretty obvious that evil/suffering exists in this world. If god is defined as an omnipotent (all-powerful) and loving being then there should be no suffering if he exists. The problem of evil puts forth four possibilities. Either...

1) God is loving but not all-powerful. In other words, he doesn't want to see people suffering but is powerless to stop it. In which case, he sounds a bit similar to most human beings.

2) God is all-powerful but not loving. In other words, he has the power to stop suffering but doesn't want to. This God sounds more like the devil or something...certainly not a being I'd want to worship.

3) God is neither all-powerful nor loving. In which case, this being isn't very god like at all.

4) God doesn't exist.

So those are the options in the problem of evil argument. And obviously I've found it rather convincing (though this isn't the only reason why I don't believe anymore...it is a major roadblock).

So, onto my question. Some Christians believe that evil/suffering exists in this world because of humans sinning. Ok, valid point...I say "some Christians" because I'm not sure whether all Christians believe this though I can't recall any alternative viewpoints on where evil/suffering comes from. Anyway, my question is...how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?
 
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revmalone

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This is one of the main reasons I can't believe in god. For those that aren't familiar with "the problem of evil" a little intro...

Ok, it's pretty obvious that evil/suffering exists in this world. If god is defined as an omnipotent (all-powerful) and loving being then there should be no suffering if he exists. The problem of evil puts forth four possibilities. Either...

1) God is loving but not all-powerful. In other words, he doesn't want to see people suffering but is powerless to stop it. In which case, he sounds a bit similar to most human beings.

2) God is all-powerful but not loving. In other words, he has the power to stop suffering but doesn't want to. This God sounds more like the devil or something...certainly not a being I'd want to worship.

3) God is neither all-powerful nor loving. In which case, this being isn't very god like at all.

4) God doesn't exist.

So those are the options in the problem of evil argument. And obviously I've found it rather convincing (though this isn't the only reason why I don't believe anymore...it is a major roadblock).

So, onto my question. Some Christians believe that evil/suffering exists in this world because of humans sinning. Ok, valid point...I say "some Christians" because I'm not sure whether all Christians believe this though I can't recall any alternative viewpoints on where evil/suffering comes from. Anyway, my question is...how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?
Greetings
One of the reasons we have such storms and earthquakes is because of the Curse when man sinned, God put a Curse on the earth, mankind, This was what Jesus Crown of thrones represented, His crown was part of that payment for sin on the Cross.

The Scriptures say the earth is growning and rumbles for the redemption that Jesus Christ, it growns just Like Christians are today wanting and longing for our Saviour to return.

Why is there suffering today?

Does a guy that breaks the Law go straight to prison right after being arrested, NO this would be a unjust action and this is not how it works he go first to a holding cell at the local jail to await all charges to be file against him. Just like in hell(hades), all are equal, no crime greater then another until Judgement day, all await there day in court. This is what Hell is being used for.


Gods mercy is in this fact, the only sin God holds all mankind accountable for right now is rejecting the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and that's it. He see's every sin we do as being done thru ignorance this allows him to have complete forgivness on every man, women, boy and girl.

No matter what sins you ever did God knows you done them not understanding that they were wrong.

Hell is not the final place that the lost soul will stay, it is were the soul is held after the body dies because the body goes back to the dust. Everyone who dies lost will receives the same torments as all in this temporary place, there is not different degrees personal punishment in hell( hades) right now because it is just the Holding place not the final place.

There is a Day God has set aside to judge every evil work and to pass down the exact required payment that must be paid. This is were God will bring justice to each and every crime and sin ever commited.

When a person dies lost there soul will stay in the holding cell called Hell, it's only until Gods final day of Judgement. At this Judgement every evil, every secret, every deed, every thought, every cuss word, is added to each account. The Bible calls this Judgement, the Great White Throne judgement. When the lost appear at this judgement they will receive there bodies but this time there bodies that aremade just to be able to handle the terrible judgement that will be given.

Christians will have a glorified body to face there judgement, but they receive rewards at there judgement not punishment. The lost will have a soul and body to be cast in alive taking every price and tourment received in judgement into the Lake of Fire.
Just think of how hot it could be if a person get's 1 degree of fire per offence. How many cuss words have you said, then add up the dirty thought, the jokes, all the people that have been affected by every bad thing you did to them, what about for every lie told, It makes me tremble to think of the received punishments.

Here is the Judgement Day recorded in Scripture
Revelation 20:11-15
11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Everything we do is recorded into our minds, your eyes are recording lens God records your whole life from, some who have died explain there whole life flashed before there eyes, your whole life is recorded inside your mind.Man has created great machines some can even trace every phone conversation, great records are stored on a small computer and at the push of a button, entire history of a person can be traced.

Each person as they walk through this life they are recording there own actions for a witness on that day of judgement. If a person denies they did a act that there accused of God will show it to you, he can show the exact second you did it live right before your own eyes and there will be no excuse for you to use, every small thing you have done, on that day it will be shown to all the hosts of heaven and many are going to add on to there punishment that day, because of all the lies they are going to tell him, he will be just because there will not be one thing left in the universe unpunished after this great judgement day.

Jesus said in Matthew 12:36-37;" I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned".
After this great judgement day trial is over, all there will be cast into the Eternal prison known as The Lake of Fire.(Revelation 20:15)

Who is the Judge on that day? It will be none other then Jesus Christ Himself.
John 5:22;" For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

Jesus made the way to be saved and because he is the salvation the only way, God commited all judgement to him. He knows all who are his and he knows all who are not his. There will be no mistakes on the Day he judges.
John 10:24-30
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

Being saved is free, all we have to do is ask to be forgiven, no works to be done to get it, it's all paid for and it is Gods free gift. How could God make it anymore simple for us to receive. If anyone searched all the rest of the worlds religions they will have to do this work or that work to go into there so called heaven, but in every other religion there is no assurance, no promises that you will go this way, the truth is you don't, without Jesus you go to the holding cell. That is why Jesus told us nobody can come to heaven except by him.

If I owned a house and I told everybody who wants to enter it they must come thru the front door only or be arrested . Suppose then people said he's not serious and started trying to come through my roof or window, would I be wrong to called the law, no.
Is it my fault they went to jail, NO! Why not? I tried to help let them in, I warned them theres one way in. I made the way to get in invitation, and it wouldn't cost them one thing , but by choosing there own way to get in , they lost it all, but it all came down to there choice on how to get in. This is the same way God has done for all of man kind, he made salvation to be free and every person gets it the same way, asking Jesus.He has told us to come in thru the door and the only door is Jesus, read it.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Is God just in what he is doing, yes when we see the big picture there is nothing left for him to do, it's up to us to decide to get in, his way or pay our own way, which will you choose.

Matthew 7:13-14. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
John 14:6 6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Just ask for it, don't miss your invitation.
Rev Malone
 
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Im_A

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This is one of the main reasons I can't believe in god. For those that aren't familiar with "the problem of evil" a little intro...

Ok, it's pretty obvious that evil/suffering exists in this world. If god is defined as an omnipotent (all-powerful) and loving being then there should be no suffering if he exists. The problem of evil puts forth four possibilities. Either...

1) God is loving but not all-powerful. In other words, he doesn't want to see people suffering but is powerless to stop it. In which case, he sounds a bit similar to most human beings.

2) God is all-powerful but not loving. In other words, he has the power to stop suffering but doesn't want to. This God sounds more like the devil or something...certainly not a being I'd want to worship.

3) God is neither all-powerful nor loving. In which case, this being isn't very god like at all.

4) God doesn't exist.

So those are the options in the problem of evil argument. And obviously I've found it rather convincing (though this isn't the only reason why I don't believe anymore...it is a major roadblock).

So, onto my question. Some Christians believe that evil/suffering exists in this world because of humans sinning. Ok, valid point...I say "some Christians" because I'm not sure whether all Christians believe this though I can't recall any alternative viewpoints on where evil/suffering comes from. Anyway, my question is...how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?


most of the time, i try not to explain things such as this.

people at one time explained it by the acts of "God" and now we can say it is because of currents in the air and temperature because we have theories that have been tested and proven true. so we go from the sage/priest to the scientist.

the only thing i could say from the Bible is this verse:

Isaiah 45:7:
"I form the light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things."

one of my favorite verses currently.
 
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dvd_holc

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This is one of the main reasons I can't believe in god. For those that aren't familiar with "the problem of evil" a little intro...

Ok, it's pretty obvious that evil/suffering exists in this world. If god is defined as an omnipotent (all-powerful) and loving being then there should be no suffering if he exists. The problem of evil puts forth four possibilities. Either...

1) God is loving but not all-powerful. In other words, he doesn't want to see people suffering but is powerless to stop it. In which case, he sounds a bit similar to most human beings.

2) God is all-powerful but not loving. In other words, he has the power to stop suffering but doesn't want to. This God sounds more like the devil or something...certainly not a being I'd want to worship.

3) God is neither all-powerful nor loving. In which case, this being isn't very god like at all.

4) God doesn't exist.

So those are the options in the problem of evil argument. And obviously I've found it rather convincing (though this isn't the only reason why I don't believe anymore...it is a major roadblock).

So, onto my question. Some Christians believe that evil/suffering exists in this world because of humans sinning. Ok, valid point...I say "some Christians" because I'm not sure whether all Christians believe this though I can't recall any alternative viewpoints on where evil/suffering comes from. Anyway, my question is...how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?
In the beginning, God...if you can't get past that, nothing else will make since.





I could leave it at that...but I will continue...Your box of possiblities for God is not what the bible goes on to describe on how God has choosen to work within His creation. Lastly, the final curse at the fall was that the enviroment would no longer be in harmony with man. Earthquakes, hurricanes, and all those other things are a induced chaos by the disobedience of humanity. Now, I will leave it at that.
 
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heron

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how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?

Some of these, we can avoid with common sense.
Our planet has movement, and seems to squirm and breathe like a person tossing in their sleep.

People build homes in Malibu, the Florida Keys, Cape Hatteras... on the edge of the water. The water has behavoir and unpredictability. It can dash over breakwalls, erode land boundaries, melt away beaches, start mudslides

People build homes on volcanic islands. About one million people live within 20 miles of Merapi, a highly active volcano.
http://www.rps.psu.edu/archive/0001/volcano.html
About 500 million people live within the danger range of active volcanoes.
http://content.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=4886

People want to live on the edge... they think they are invincible... they want what they want. They know the facts and possibilites, but cross their fingers and hope to avoid trouble.

Of course there are unpredictable natural disasters like tornadoes and hurricanes, extreme temperatures, droughts and floods that extend further than expected.

But in order for the Earth to exist as a living planet, it needs to have a flow and circulation... cooling systems, pressure releases, watering and drying.
 
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Key

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This is one of the main reasons I can't believe in god. For those that aren't familiar with "the problem of evil" a little intro...

Ok, it's pretty obvious that evil/suffering exists in this world. If god is defined as an omnipotent (all-powerful) and loving being then there should be no suffering if he exists. The problem of evil puts forth four possibilities. Either...

1) God is loving but not all-powerful. In other words, he doesn't want to see people suffering but is powerless to stop it. In which case, he sounds a bit similar to most human beings.

2) God is all-powerful but not loving. In other words, he has the power to stop suffering but doesn't want to. This God sounds more like the devil or something...certainly not a being I'd want to worship.

3) God is neither all-powerful nor loving. In which case, this being isn't very god like at all.

4) God doesn't exist.

Allowing us to reap the rewards for our actions is neither evil or evidence of lack of power.

It is a Just action, God gave the Wold to Adam (Humans) to be it's caretaker. And this is what we have done with it, God is just, and if he stands by the idea that we have made this bed and now we will sleep in it, I see no fault.

Secondly it is not the mushy mushy love that we might have implanted into our minds today, but more the equal to what would be known as "Tough Love".

So those are the options in the problem of evil argument. And obviously I've found it rather convincing (though this isn't the only reason why I don't believe anymore...it is a major roadblock).

It's an argument from ignorance, and the byproduct of people trying to fit God into a Box.

So, onto my question. Some Christians believe that evil/suffering exists in this world because of humans sinning. Ok, valid point...I say "some Christians" because I'm not sure whether all Christians believe this though I can't recall any alternative viewpoints on where evil/suffering comes from. Anyway, my question is...how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?

There are no such thing as "Natural Evil", for evil to be intent must exist. an Earthquake has no "Intent" because their is not mind to the eath quake. It is triggred by internal pressure of the eath, no diffrent then if say a drill were to go thouh a peice of wood and into the hand holding the wood. The Drill did nothing wrong, it can't do "Evil".

God Designed our world to function in a way, and earthquakes and etc are part of that system, all Gods other creations respect this, only Humans view this as "Evil" but it is not, no more then say an Engine Block of a car can be evil. It is us that view it at "Evil" because we can, the Eathquake itself can not have such a view. And all Death is not Evil either, that is an incorrect view.

I hope I have answered your questions

God Bless

Key
 
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JonathanP

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Hi

You have had some very good answers. I would like to add a few thoughts. Firstly, the fact that we can even evaluate actions as being evil or good is evidence for the existence of God. Without God there can be no true order to the universe. Everything would be left to random chance, and it simply wouldn't make sense to evaluate something as being right or wrong, morally or otherwise. Furthermore life would only be a temporary thing, with no eternal consequences, so the issue becomes irrelevant anyway.

Also the problem that we are discussing is mainly concerned with how a good God can allow evil things if He is sovereign and omnipotent. As Christians we believe God is both sovereign and good, and the presence of evil does not contradict that. You gave four options in your original thread, but there is another. God may allow evil and suffering for a good purpose. In allowing free will and people's choice to rebel against Him, God maintains the dignity of our humanity.

Furthermore the biblical account of the fall of man would make no sense if we never experienced the consequences of a fallen world. Evil and suffering can lead us to seek God and find salvation from these things.

blessings

Jonathan
 
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The Nihilist

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The problem of specifically human evil is not insurmountable, but most of what's getting thrown around is not sufficient, I think. When I was a Christian, I thought that the highest way a human could live was in communion with God. It was also my opinion that the human had to make a choice for this to be all that great. I mean, what's the point if God just makes all the decisions for us and nothing we do matters (cough Calvinism). Therefore, it is better that we have free will and can make either a good or a bad decision, than it would be if everyone has good, but no one could be bad.
 
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ERice2nd

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The problem of specifically human evil is not insurmountable, but most of what's getting thrown around is not sufficient, I think. When I was a Christian, I thought that the highest way a human could live was in communion with God. It was also my opinion that the human had to make a choice for this to be all that great. I mean, what's the point if God just makes all the decisions for us and nothing we do matters (cough Calvinism). Therefore, it is better that we have free will and can make either a good or a bad decision, than it would be if everyone has good, but no one could be bad.
We do have freewil and God doesnt make our decisions for us. Any christian who believes so is only trying to avoid taking responsibilty for their actions.

God gave us freewill so we can willingly love him, not be forced to love him. We are to use that freewill how we choose and because of that we are held accountable for everyone of our actions, no matter how small
 
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039

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First of all... *pokes his signature*.

Second of all, the world is cursed. Yes, God put a curse on it so that everything in it would lead to ruin. Hence why we call it a fallen world. God put man in a position of authority over the Earth. When man fell, so did that which he had power over.
 
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Reformationist

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Ok, it's pretty obvious that evil/suffering exists in this world. If god is defined as an omnipotent (all-powerful) and loving being then there should be no suffering if he exists.

This is your foundational problem and, most likely, the source from which stems your perceived paradox. You have presumed that if God were all powerful and loving that man should not suffer. It is simply not the case. Man suffers because man is a sinner.

Some Christians believe that evil/suffering exists in this world because of humans sinning. Ok, valid point...I say "some Christians" because I'm not sure whether all Christians believe this though I can't recall any alternative viewpoints on where evil/suffering comes from. Anyway, my question is...how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?

You're assigning a moral assessment to something without morality. "Evil," from a Christian perspective, is that which is contrary to the righteousness of God. To my knowledge, athiests do not submit to a defined moral standard so I am not sure how you'd even use the word "evil." Now, if you had ask why a good God would allow things of that nature to come to pass, that would be different.

God bless
 
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Key

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WashedClean, I think your post amounts to insisting that Christianity has written the best fantasy. That's not that impressive.
Norse mythology, though, cleans all evil from the world following Ragnarok. Also, the stories are better.

Ummm Ragnarok, is when the Gods fall to the Giants, thus "Evil" wins. Or has that story been rewritten?

And Reality is many times harder to believe then fantasy, liek the fact that some craftsman from 2000 years ago set down a set of rules and since that day or before that day, no one has been able to establish a better set of social morals.

Even if I did not believe in God, that would still have to be one mighty impressive man.

God Bless

Key
 
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K

Keturah

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You're assigning a moral assessment to something without morality. "Evil," from a Christian perspective, is that which is contrary to the righteousness of God.

Well ignore the word evil then. I have used both "evil" and "suffering" to describe this argument...so if you all having trouble witht the word "evil" just ignore it. People are suffering and I understand that some suffering is essentially brought upon people from their own or others actions...the result of being sinful. But, this does not explain natural disasters.

To my knowledge, athiests do not submit to a defined moral standard so I am not sure how you'd even use the word "evil." Now, if you had ask why a good God would allow things of that nature to come to pass, that would be different.

That *is* what I'm asking. The "problem of evil argument" (which isn't my argument btw) is basically asking how can a good, all-powerful god exist when there's suffering in this world because such a god would have the desire and the power to stop it. Now I was saying that I understand how some of this suffering is caused by peoples actions...but some not, how can these things happen?
 
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Im_A

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Well ignore the word evil then. I have used both "evil" and "suffering" to describe this argument...so if you all having trouble witht the word "evil" just ignore it. People are suffering and I understand that some suffering is essentially brought upon people from their own or others actions...the result of being sinful. But, this does not explain natural disasters.



That *is* what I'm asking. The "problem of evil argument" (which isn't my argument btw) is basically asking how can a good, all-powerful god exist when there's suffering in this world because such a god would have the desire and the power to stop it. Now I was saying that I understand how some of this suffering is caused by peoples actions...but some not, how can these things happen?

one thing i would maybe think about is, is it "evil" that hurricane Katrina did the devastation it did(just an example to go with your question here)? is nature an entity that can be defined by good or evil?

and with God allowing this stuff to happen, i think there is one flip side of it, is that nature has a way of replenishing the earth. for example the ironic time of major drought in an area and then out of no where a flood or a monsoon happens. it can kill people, but it also does good thing that will produce good things for people as well.

and for the sake of natural disasters, i have a hard time seeing a reason to think God isn't all good because people move into an area that is known for extreme natural activity. please don't think i'm belittling any travesties that do happen tho. :) i just don't see nature as an entity to descide this is evil or good and then turn to how to define "God".

:)
 
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heron

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Also, the stories are better.
^_^

I mean, what's the point if God just makes all the decisions for us and nothing we do matters (cough Calvinism).
You had a good insight into the problem with the teaching. It would have been helpful to others at that church, to address the wrong you saw -- they probably felt it too.

My view of God foreknowing is more probability-based... He knows all the potential solutions, and tries to warn us of potential harm we might face.

Suffering, in an of itself, is not an evil. Living on this planet comes with various challenges, some of which are natural in origin.
:) Look at small-scale suffering. Your stomach burns you because you intentionally skipped breakfast. Your muscles ache because you increased your weights the day before.

Take that up a notch. You are stressed and exhausted because you've been in school four years, preparing for your career. You are sad because you moved from your home to a better location.

Suffering brings a boost of adrenaline and other chemicals... thinking about suffering can give us the same physical reactions as the suffering itself. Stress can give us some of the same energy bursts that happiness can. So is it all bad?

http://www.hmh.net/adam/patientreports/000031.htm


Katrina is probably the strongest Western example of what you're saying. As far as we know, there was no evil scheme behind it, no mastermind plan... but it yielded more pain and discouragement than we can bear to think about.

No one has easy answers for this. No religion can derive clear-cut wisdom out of it. I am a devoted Christian, but I do not easily say "it was God's will" or "it was caused by our evil" or "we could have prevented it with prayer and repentance." It was a storm, and millions of people suffered. The suffering rippled across the whole country, and beyond.
 
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PaulAckermann

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So, onto my question. Some Christians believe that evil/suffering exists in this world because of humans sinning. Ok, valid point...I say "some Christians" because I'm not sure whether all Christians believe this though I can't recall any alternative viewpoints on where evil/suffering comes from. Anyway, my question is...how do you explain the "natural evils" in this world? The suffering caused by earthquakes, hurricanes, tornados and other natural disasters?

First of all, God created man with a free will. Now some people may think this is a weakness, or limitation on God. After all, if man has a free will, then man can resist God's will. If man can resist God's will then God's will is not always done. If God's will is not always done, then God cannot be all-powerful. But I do not see it that way. I compare God's creative abilities to ours. We are able to create many things, but there is one thing we cannot create - we cannot create a thing that can think independently on its own. The closest thing we can create to this is the computer. But a computer can only think what it has been programmed to think. A computer will never be able to rebel against man - even though there have been many sci-fi movies where a computers or robots rebel against man. As a computer programmer, I know that this will never happen. Computers will never have the independant intelligence that they can actually rebel against us. I know there is "artificial intelicence". But AI only gives the appearance of independant thinking. The computer will only be able to do and think the way it has been programmed. Only God has been able to make a being that can resist Him. And since this being can resist Him, this being can resist the All-God, the Source of all good, and instead turn to evil. God did not create evil. But He did create the possibilty of evil when He created free will, and free will is in itself a good. We all intrinsically believe that free will exists. If free will does not exists, it would be pointless to discuss anything on this forum, or anywhere else. What is the point in arguing your case about anything if we are not free to accept or reject your arguments? By our sheer desire to discuss things with others, we show that free will exist. Also, we intrinsically consider free will to be a good thing. We look upon manipulation or brainwashing as beings something bad. We prefer to have a society where there is freedom to choose and the possibility of crime than a totalitarian soceity where there is no freedom to choose and little possiblity of crime.

Second, although God has, so to speak, placed a self-limitation upon Himself, by creating human beings who are capable of resisting His will, this does not mean that God is no longer all-powerful. In fact, this even reveals more of God's power. Compare this again to man and his computers. Man is capable to control the outcome of a computer program. This is easy, because the computer will do exactly what man has programmed it in order to produce the desired outcome. But God is able to control the outcome of program WITHOUT programming every single detail to reach that outcome. That, to me, is true power. That is something we would never be able to do. We can only control the outcome if we are able to control the means to that outcome. But God can control outcome even though He did not control the means to that outcome. This is a mystery, a paraodox. God is able to overall accomplish His will through beings who are freely able to choose not to do His will. This is awesome.


Third, God being able to accomplish His good, perfect purpose in the overall outcome from actions that are immediately evil will be fully realized only at the culmination of our history. I do not want bother with the details of how our history will end. It may end by a nuclear war, a comet crashing into earth, by the poluting of our environment, or the sun exploding. I don't know. But I do know, based on the Book of Revelation, that one day it will happen. Once it happens, we will stand before God in judgement, and we will see the great outcome that came from all this evil. Its like reading a book with a happy ending. In the middle of the book, everything seems dim. Right now, we are in middle of the book, so everything looks so depressing. But just as it is unfair to judge an author when you are in the middle of a book, so it is unfair to judge the Divine Author while we are still in the middle of the book. Let's reserve our judgement until the book is finished.


Fourth, until the book is finished, God has allowed both moral evil and natural evil to exist. Moral evil exists because that is a direct result of man freely choosing evil. Natural evil is an indirect result of man choosing evil. Sin has a tremendous influence on the universe. It is like a Pandora's box. Because man freely chose evil, God has placed man in an environment where bad things happen. It does not mean that God is direfcting each indivual disaster on each person. It means that He has placed all of us in a fallen world where bad things can happen to anyone. He did this for two reasons. First, it is just retribution for man choosing evil. Second, it is a result of God's compassion. As CS Lewis once said, pain is God's megaphone to get the attention of a deaf world. Think about it. Without any pain, we would be totally complacent in our choosing evil. Atheism is virtually non-existent among people who are starving in the third world. There are more Christians who try to live for their faith in Africa, than any other continent. Pain makes us reach for God. The more pain we experience, the more we sense our need for God. The more comfort we experience, that more we sense that we can well without God. People in our country do not have any idea what true pain is like, and yet it is people in our country who question how God can allow suffering. But the people who are suffering the most are not the ones who are questioning the existence of God. People who sit in their luxurious ivory towers question how God can allow pain. But those who are experiencing pain are seeking God.


So if there are those who are experiencing pain are seeking God, and those who do not experience pain are complacent about not seeking God, then maybe our question is wrong. If our complacency about not seeking God will eventually lead to our eternal ruin, and will make us miss God's eternal outcome for us, wouldn't God witholding pain from us in the short run be a sign that God does not care whether or not we turn to Him? So instead of asking "How can an all-powerful and all-loving God allow us to suffering" should we not be asking "How can an all-powerful and all-loving God allow us to experience comfort and pleasure when He knows we are on the path to ruin?" I do not question the first question so much as the second. Given the state of our souls, it amazes me God is not harder than He is. After all, how can a loving God pamper us now knowing that our souls are in danger in the future for all eternity?
 
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