A global flood.

[chaoschristian]

I believe that science needs to discredit the flood. To admit that it occurred would cast doubt on many scientific assertions.

Prove the negative.

Prove that the flood did not happen last Thursday.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Huh?

 

[theFijian]

Huh?

If you make a scientific claim it's up to you to back it up. It's not up to others to disprove your claim.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I thought I did. I gave the example of the tides. Do you need a scientist to validate my observation? You don't always need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I thought I did. I gave the example of the tides. Do you need a scientist to validate my observation?

Tides aint floods.

Never was a global flood. No way, no how.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Tides aint floods.

Never was a global flood. No way, no how.

Many areas of floods resemble tides. Science has constructed a straw man arguement about flood evidence.

 

[Mallon]

Science has constructed a straw man arguement about flood evidence.

Hard to attack Flood science based on the evidence when there's no real science being done or evidence being put forth by the creationists to begin with. Just unsubstantiated assertions like, "The extent of even small local floods often cannot be determined as some areas that were flooded do not appear to have been."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Hard to attack Flood science based on the evidence when there's no real science being done or evidence being put forth by the creationists to begin with. Just unsubstantiated assertions like, "The extent of even small local floods often cannot be determined as some areas that were flooded do not appear to have been."

Some things are obvious.

 

[Mallon]

Some things are obvious.

(Case in point.)

 

[artybloke]

Some things are obvious.

Science doesn't deal in the obvious. It's "obvious" that the sun goes round the earth (just look out your window and see it move.)

Science deals in evidence.

When you have some, I'll begin to take you seriously.

 

[jeffweeder]

Well we can look at something more recent, and notice that the scientist in question, doesnt appear to be a biblical creationist, yet he is saying Britian seperated from from france due to a massive flood in only 24 hrs, he then goes on to say 200to 400,000 years ago.
After thinking of slow gradual erosion, they now believe a flood did it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/25/nflood25.xml

Its obvious that the bible tells this as a literal story,as history.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
http://www.christianforums.com/4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
http://www.christianforums.com/5 For when[1][Or they are willfully ignorant of this fact, that ] they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
http://www.christianforums.com/6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
http://www.christianforums.com/7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.




http://www.christianforums.com/37 "For the[25][Lit just as...were the days ] coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
http://www.christianforums.com/38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
http://www.christianforums.com/39 and they did not understand[26][Lit know ] until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well we can look at something more recent, and notice that the scientist in question, doesnt appear to be a biblical creationist, yet he is saying Britian seperated from from france due to a massive flood in only 24 hrs, he then goes on to say 200to 400,000 years ago.
After thinking of slow gradual erosion, they now believe a flood did it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/25/nflood25.xml

Its obvious that the bible tells this as a literal story,as history.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
http://www.christianforums.com/4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
http://www.christianforums.com/5 For when[1][Or they are willfully ignorant of this fact, that ] they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
http://www.christianforums.com/6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
http://www.christianforums.com/7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.




http://www.christianforums.com/37 "For the[25][Lit just as...were the days ] coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
http://www.christianforums.com/38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
http://www.christianforums.com/39 and they did not understand[26][Lit know ] until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Couldn't have stated it better meself.

 

[Mallon]

It always seems to escape the creationists that this giant flood is said to have occurred 200,000-400,000 years ago.
No detail is too overwhelming for the runaway freight train that is creation science, though!

(Creation science reminds me of watching CSI on tv -- where every single detail at the crime scene, no matter how inane, always traces back to the murderer.)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Science doesn't deal in the obvious. It's "obvious" that the sun goes round the earth (just look out your window and see it move.)

Science deals in evidence.

When you have some, I'll begin to take you seriously.

The only way you'll take me seriously is when I agree with you. This won't happen.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It always seems to escape the creationists that this giant flood is said to have occurred 200,000-400,000 years ago.
No detail is too overwhelming for the runaway freight train that is creation science, though!

(Creation science reminds me of watching CSI on tv -- where every single detail at the crime scene, no matter how inane, always traces back to the murderer.)

Widen your view of worldwide floods. Remember that the earth was completely covered with flood water in 'the beginning', long before Noah's flood. The earth has been shaped by many floods over many years.

A quick comment on this as well:

"But those who died in the plague numbered 24,000." (Numbers 25:9)

This is the total number of dead, including the leaders that were killed before the people were killed. The killing of the leaders did not stop the sinful acts of the people. Read the whole account.

"We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—
and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died." (1 Corinthians 10:8

Simply the number killed in a single day, not the total killed. Probably 1000 leaders were first killed but the sinful acts continued, followed soon after by the killing of 23,000 people in one day, possibly including the killing of the man with the Midianite woman, which actually (caused/encouraged) God to stop the plague.

 

[Mallon]

Widen your view of worldwide floods. Remember that the earth was completely covered with flood water in 'the beginning', long before Noah's flood. The earth has been shaped by many floods over many years.

I realize you're a GAPper, which is why you likely accept floods nearly 400,000 years ago. For YECists, however, this particular example lends terrible support to the idea of, say, Noah's flood.

Simply the number killed in a single day, not the total killed. Probably 1000 leaders were first killed but the sinful acts continued, followed soon after by the killing of 23,000 people, possibly including the killing of the man with the Midianite woman, which actually stopped the plague.

This is probably the third or fourth different apologetic I've heard regarding these verses now. I wonder which is right?

 

[laptoppop]

This is probably the third or fourth different apologetic I've heard regarding these verses now. I wonder which is right?

No, its the same one. 24,000 total, 23,000 in one day. I don't understand why you are clinging to this one when there are other ones which are much harder to deal with. Oh well - in the grand scheme - no biggie.

 

[Mallon]

No, its the same one. 24,000 total, 23,000 in one day.

Sure, it's the same one you've brought up previously. Yours isn't the only apologetic I've heard, though.

I don't understand why you are clinging to this one when there are other ones which are much harder to deal with. Oh well - in the grand scheme - no biggie.

It'll please you to know I'm thinking of changing it.

 

[Assyrian]

Well we can look at something more recent, and notice that the scientist in question, doesnt appear to be a biblical creationist, yet he is saying Britian seperated from from france due to a massive flood in only 24 hrs, he then goes on to say 200to 400,000 years ago.
After thinking of slow gradual erosion, they now believe a flood did it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/25/nflood25.xml

Its obvious that the bible tells this as a literal story,as history.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
5 For when[1][Or they are willfully ignorant of this fact, that ] they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.




37 "For the[25][Lit just as...were the days ] coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 and they did not understand[26][Lit know ] until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Given that both the old and new versions say that Britain used to be connected to France, and isn't now, how is this supposed to fit 'all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation'?

I should also point out that they are talking about a local flood, hundreds of thousands of years ago. Now the bible may well be referring to a devastating local flood like this, and there have been a number of these floods that are possible candidates.

Obviously some people interpret the Genesis account as a global flood, a few thousand years ago. But this research does not backs up that interpretation. In fact it totally contradicts it. The analysis was based on the fact that you can clearly identify the marks of large flood. It is the lack of just this kind of evidence worldwide that disproves a global flood.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Thanks for the link.

One of the problems with metaphors, especially ones like the Noahic flood is that they become ways to communicate in shorthand, ways to summarize information and pass it on quickly. That is how the terms Biblical-sytle flood is being used in this article.

It is not a rain.
it is not a deluge over a period of time.
it is a dam break.
it didn't really flood anything, it quickly eroded a barrier.
it really isn't anything like the Noahic flood.
the article just makes the connection in order to connect with the reading audience and use a common metaphor.

the same thing happened with an ice dam in the Northwest US in the Washington badlands.
it sours the floodplain downstream from the dam break and leaves a particular kind of damage, as outlined in the article. the water doesn't stay in the flooded area, it just passes through. The best Noah could have done in this flood is to have had one termendous surfing experience.