The mechanics of believing...

[FrankFaith]

Can we choose to believe?

Given an opportunity to choose between two or more things (once presented with a choice), the answer is YES.

*But without an opportunity to choose, you cannot believe. You cannot step into BELIEF simply by wanting to, however--unless there are two or more things to choose from--then you have a choice. Without the availability of choices, there is no choosing that can take place. Without choices, we reside where we reside--whether in possession of belief in Truth--or untruth. In fact, we cannot even WANT to believe—because we don’t have any additional information from which we can form the conception of an additional choice!

We cannot step into a belief that we do not yet know or conceive of as an option for belief. If we don't know about something--we just don't know about it--it isn't yet available to us as something to ponder; potential for choice.

Do you see where I'm coming from? If so, please read on...

Scripture says that we are to spread Good News. Please decide which of the following statements qualifies as Good News:

a. Through being drawn to walk in obedience to the Word, purposefully staying out of sin (not giving the devil a legal right to attack) and exercising the authority given us through Jesus to stop the attacks and deception that the devil throws at us, we can experience all of the good things that God wants us to walk in possession of today! K J
b. You aren’t healed because of sin in your life! K L

Those of you tempted to say that both statements are good news, please understand that speaking statement b. to someone firmly places that person under a load which is heavier than it was before you made the statement to begin with! It introduces an additional element of condemnation—AND THERE IS NO MORE CONDEMNATION!!! Romans 8:1 This makes statement b. nothing more than an untrue statement—and, unfortunately for you, it makes you a tool of the devil (it shows you as deceived) if you make the statement. Decieved?! Yes—because you had not taken into account that neither you nor they are under condemnation. We are Free—through Jesus we are all Free.

Statement a. is nothing but pure, unadulterated GOOD NEWS. *It’s GOOD NEWS that we are to be spreading…

That said, the mechanics of Believing work ONLY through LOVE. FAITH works by Love. Faith works by Love.

Faith works by Love.

When we state Good News, we open up an opportunity for the person we are talking to to choose to Believe. If we do not present Good News, we do not provide an additional option available to choose.

We provide an opportunity to choose by stating Good News. This allows others to step into Belief if they CHOOSE to. Through Love (the vehicle in which Good News arrives), others are exposed to new information; an additional choice.

This new option for belief before them is like a magnet—it draws them to itself. Good News is more than tempting to believe—and because Good News is True, we are poised for success! God has Truly set us up for success!

So, back to the original question: Can we CHOOSE to believe?

What do you think? J

 

[FrankFaith]

I believe that all 16 of you who read this so far are so much in agreement with it that it seemed rediculous to you to even comment at all: 'of course this is True!', you thought!!

Yep--I've just checked and discovered that this belief does, indeed, reside/exist within me--I possess this belief!

...I wonder whether this belief of mine will change!

I may be able to speak the languages of human beings and even of angels, but if I have no love, my speech is no more than a noisy gong or a clanging bell.
I may have the gift of inspired preaching; I may have all knowledge and understand all secrets; I may have all the faith needed to move mountains---but if I have no love, I am nothing.
I may give away everything I have, and even give up my body to be burned ---but if I have no love, this does me no good.
Love is patient and kind; it is not jealous or conceited or proud;
love is not ill-mannered or selfish or irritable; love does not keep a record of wrongs;
love is not happy with evil, but is happy with the truth.
Love never gives up; and its faith, hope, and patience never fail.
Love is eternal. 1Co 13:1 - 8
It is love, then, that you should strive for. … 1Co 14:1

 

[PastorMike]

Hi Bro, I believe we can choose to believe... God told Joshua, "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve..."

We are presented by the Holy Ghost a knowledge of what it takes to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, we are drawn by the Holy Ghost to Christ but the thing that makes us unique is our freedom and ability to choose for ourselves whether we will accept him as Lord and Master...

 

[msbojingles]

I believe that all 16 of you who read this so far are so much in agreement with it that it seemed rediculous to you to even comment at all: 'of course this is True!', you thought!!

you seem to have said it all very well

 

[FrankFaith]

PreacherMike, Do you agree with this:

Scripture says that we are to spread Good News. Please decide which of the following statements qualifies as Good News:

a. Through being drawn to walk in obedience to the Word, purposefully staying out of sin (not giving the devil a legal right to attack) and exercising the authority given us through Jesus to stop the attacks and deception that the devil throws at us, we can experience all of the good things that God wants us to walk in possession of today! KJ
b. You aren’t healed because of sin in your life! KL

Those of you tempted to say that both statements are good news, please understand that speaking statement b. to someone firmly places that person under a load which is heavier than it was before you made the statement to begin with! It introduces an additional element of condemnation—AND THERE IS NO MORE CONDEMNATION!!! Romans 8:1 This makes statement b. nothing more than an untrue statement—and, unfortunately for you, it makes you a tool of the devil (it shows you as deceived) if you make the statement. Decieved?! Yes—because you had not taken into account that neither you nor they are under condemnation. We are Free—through Jesus we are all Free.

 

[God_Owned]

Can we choose to believe?

Given an opportunity to choose between two or more things (once presented with a choice), the answer is YES.

*But without an opportunity to choose, you cannot believe. You cannot step into BELIEF simply by wanting to, however--unless there are two or more things to choose from--then you have a choice. Without the availability of choices, there is no choosing that can take place. Without choices, we reside where we reside--whether in possession of belief in Truth--or untruth. In fact, we cannot even WANT to believe—because we don’t have any additional information from which we can form the conception of an additional choice!

We cannot step into a belief that we do not yet know or conceive of as an option for belief. If we don't know about something--we just don't know about it--it isn't yet available to us as something to ponder; potential for choice.

Do you see where I'm coming from? If so, please read on...

Scripture says that we are to spread Good News. Please decide which of the following statements qualifies as Good News:

a. Through being drawn to walk in obedience to the Word, purposefully staying out of sin (not giving the devil a legal right to attack) and exercising the authority given us through Jesus to stop the attacks and deception that the devil throws at us, we can experience all of the good things that God wants us to walk in possession of today! KJ
b. You aren’t healed because of sin in your life! KL

Those of you tempted to say that both statements are good news, please understand that speaking statement b. to someone firmly places that person under a load which is heavier than it was before you made the statement to begin with! It introduces an additional element of condemnation—AND THERE IS NO MORE CONDEMNATION!!! Romans 8:1 This makes statement b. nothing more than an untrue statement—and, unfortunately for you, it makes you a tool of the devil (it shows you as deceived) if you make the statement. Decieved?! Yes—because you had not taken into account that neither you nor they are under condemnation. We are Free—through Jesus we are all Free.

Statement a. is nothing but pure, unadulterated GOOD NEWS. *It’s GOOD NEWS that we are to be spreading…

That said, the mechanics of Believing work ONLY through LOVE. FAITH works by Love. Faith works by Love.

Faith works by Love.

When we state Good News, we open up an opportunity for the person we are talking to to choose to Believe. If we do not present Good News, we do not provide an additional option available to choose.

We provide an opportunity to choose by stating Good News. This allows others to step into Belief if they CHOOSE to. Through Love (the vehicle in which Good News arrives), others are exposed to new information; an additional choice.

This new option for belief before them is like a magnet—it draws them to itself. Good News is more than tempting to believe—and because Good News is True, we are poised for success! God has Truly set us up for success!

So, back to the original question: Can we CHOOSE to believe?

What do you think? J

I'm from Kansas so you're going to have to put this in plainer English if you want me to participate.

 

[CrazyforYeshua]

We have to choose to believe, it's not something that is forced on us, whether to receive salvation, or even what to do after. God doesn't want robots, He gives us the choice to believe what He says is true, or not.

 

[franky67]

Not this,
B. You aren't healed because of sin in your life.

But this,

B. You aren't healed because of sin in your life that you know you are commiting, and refuse to repent of.

 

[Trish1947]

I believe with the mind we choose to believe. God said it, therefore it is true. But I also believe that we choose to believe because of the One who said it.. Thats our confidence in the One that said it. But choosing to believe is not faith. We choose to believe with our mind... until faith comes, and faith comes to the spirit. The mind can choose all sorts of things, and with our mind we bring everything to the obediance of Christ. When we do this, then by the Word of God faith will come to the spirit.

 

[FrankFaith]

I believe with the mind we choose to believe. God said it, therefore it is true. But I also believe that we choose to believe because of the One who said it.. Thats our confidence in the One that said it. But choosing to believe is not faith. We choose to believe with our mind... until faith comes, and faith comes to the spirit. The mind can choose all sorts of things, and with our mind we bring everything to the obediance of Christ. When we do this, then by the Word of God faith will come to the spirit.

Instead of saying that we choose to believe with the mind, I say that we choose--if there are options available to choose--with our minds, and our will gets us walking in the choices we make.

I don't think that we believe with our minds, however--I think that we discover choices with our minds, then choose with our minds. We walk in our choices by our will.

I'm saying that Belief is of the heart. We cannot change our own heart.

*In fact, we could say that the choices we make are ALWAYS based upon this heart belief--we ALWAYS choose based upon what's in our hearts...it's just that sometimes what we happen to be choosing just may not be True.

Here's an example: I know that if I take a hammer and hit myself in the hand with it, it will be painful, there's no point in it, and I may perminently injure myself. My mind deduces that this is a bad idea and rejects this choice. Based upon this my belief, that injurying my body is injuring God's temple, I choose not to hit myself in the hand with the hammer.

Someone else may have the same hammer but different input in his head: If he hits himself in the hand, he will receive sympathy--and sympathy is more important to him than pain and perminent injury. In his mind, Sympathy has more value to him than health--and in his heart, he does not know Jesus.

You and I see this second person as lost, because through deception and lack of Truth in his heart, his heart BELIEF was that his need would be met through sympathy. Sympathy is his goal. My choice is based upon Truth: non-injury is the goal. We both acted upon choices in front of us--but our beliefs were different.

Can we say that our choices are always made BASED ON what we already believe to be true? Why would we choose to do something that we already believe to be the wrong choice? We NEVER do. We ALWAYS take our current belief, measure any new available choices against it, then make our choice ACCORDING TO OUR CURRENT BELIEFS.

God affects our hearts--we cannot make that happen. We've all been given a measure of Faith--it gets this choice ball rolling int he right direction for us. But here comes my point...don't let it roll on by...

When we do not act according to Holy Spirit (if we do not walk in Love), we place choices in front of others that do not draw their hearts toward Truth. We contribute to others' poor choices--because their hearts are not changed.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word. Love. We've got to Love others, in Truth, speaking the Word through Holy Spirit and scripture.

This thread is in response to the slashing and slamming going on here on CF. Why aren't we Loving others. LOVING them, as OPPOSED to slamming them as a result of our selfish desires.

Truth and Love come from Holy Spirit--and He does not prompt us to slash and slam.

Which if these is true:

a. Through being drawn to walk in obedience to the Word, purposefully staying out of sin (not giving the devil a legal right to attack) and exercising the authority given us through Jesus to stop the attacks and deception that the devil throws at us, we can experience all of the good things that God wants us to walk in possession of today! KJ

b. You aren’t healed because of sin in your life! KL

Phil 4:8

 

[pdudgeon]

an interesting question!

I agree that we choose to believe, and that the choice is always between what God wants for us and what satan desires to deceive us with.

choosing to believe God is acting in both knowledge and faith; knowledge of the nature of God, and faith that He will do what He says.

choosing what satan desires to deceive us with, is giving validity to our circumstances,or trusting in our own devices and abilities/knowledge. As a result we listen to satan and sew doubt or disbelief in our hearts about God.

we can see this played out in the episode of Peter walking on the water.

He first chose to believe that, like Jesus, he too could walk on water if the Lord bid him come. Trusting in Jesus, he chose to put a foot over the side of the boat and begin walking toward Jesus. He did walk on water!

But then he noticed the waves on either side of him and how high they were. He looked at his circumstances, he looked at his everyday experiences of not walking on the water but in the water. Having taken his eyes and trust off Jesus and put it into his experience and knowledge, doubt was sewn into his heart and he began to sink, as his experience/knowledge told him he would.

Rrealizing his peril he called out to Jesus to save him, once again making the choice to believe and trust in God's forgiveness and saving grace.

 

[God_Owned]

an interesting question!

I agree that we choose to believe, and that the choice is always between what God wants for us and what satan desires to deceive us with.

choosing to believe God is acting in both knowledge and faith; knowledge of the nature of God, and faith that He will do what He says.

choosing what satan desires to deceive us with, is giving validity to our circumstances,or trusting in our own devices and abilities/knowledge. As a result we listen to satan and sew doubt or disbelief in our hearts about God.

we can see this played out in the episode of Peter walking on the water.

He first chose to believe that, like Jesus, he too could walk on water if the Lord bid him come. Trusting in Jesus, he chose to put a foot over the side of the boat and begin walking toward Jesus. He did walk on water!

But then he noticed the waves on either side of him and how high they were. He looked at his circumstances, he looked at his everyday experiences of not walking on the water but in the water. Having taken his eyes and trust off Jesus and put it into his experience and knowledge, doubt was sewn into his heart and he began to sink, as his experience/knowledge told him he would.

Rrealizing his peril he called out to Jesus to save him, once again making the choice to believe and trust in God's forgiveness and saving grace.

We choose to want to believe, but our ability to believe is dependent on the level of our faith which comes by hearing and hearing by the Word.

 

[FrankFaith]

I say we either want to, or not want to do things, based upon our current heart belief, when faced with a choice.

It's supremely important to communicate Love (as Holy Spirit directs) rather than ANYTHING else--because when we communicate ANYTHING else, others are given additional UNTRUE options from which to choose.

When we communicate in True, Holy Spirit drawn Love, others are presented with TRUTH as a choice!!

 

[God_Owned]

When we communicate in True, Holy Spirit drawn Love, others are presented with TRUTH as a choice!!

"heart belief" = faith?

What UNTRUE options?

Did you mean to say, "...communicate in truth"......?

"...drawn love"....?

Three comments:

1. It is difficult at best to understand the point you're making.
2. I like to say it as closely to the way the bible says it as possible.
3. We are always presented with the Truth in the Word.

 

[msbojingles]

It's supremely important to communicate Love (as Holy Spirit directs) rather than ANYTHING else--because when we communicate ANYTHING else, others are given additional UNTRUE options from which to choose.

When we communicate in True, Holy Spirit drawn Love, others are presented with TRUTH as a choice!!

ooooo I like the way you said that. We must communicate properly, Truth, with love as the motive.

On the other hand, the condition of the heart that is receiving is supremely important, because that will affect how they hear.

I'm reminded of the parable of the sewer. The focus wasn't on how the seeds were scattered, only that they were scattered. The focus was on how the seed was received. The condition of the heart. If one does not hear something the way it was intended, they will not understand the choices, or they may even believe that the word given was false, untrue.

But, we could take this a step further, because the bible also talks about how Satan sews tares among the wheat, so there is seed that is not Truth.

(I'm preaching to myself right here, so don't anyone be offended, you're seeing things lining out in my mind..lol)

So, yes, we must present Truth, in order for people to choose Truth. Therefore the Word must be rightly divided, because if we ourselves cannot tell a difference between the counterfeit and True, we won't even know what seeds we're sewing. However, we are not responsible if we ARE speaking Truth, but someone else's heart isn't right, and they therefore hear the word in a way which is not intended.

Which is why God looks at our heart, at our intentions. People judge by what they see on the surface, God looks at the heart.

 

[Trish1947]

A person can be totally defeated, by what his mind is telling him. He can be totally defeated by what his heart is telling him. If he is born again, and doesn't have the word of God in him, say concerning healing, his mind will defeat him everytime. He can even listen to his heart, and if faith has not been placed there, by the word of God, he still can't find the truth of it, in his heart. We are all born again by hearing the word of God. Wheather it's salvation, healing or any other promise, it's the word that produced the belief in the heart. There are many Christians that what they have in their heart as truth is the salvation of their souls. But if they choose not to hear the Word of God, concerning other things, then that will be what they have. We are moved from faith to faith, by hearing the Word of God. A person that knows in their mind what the word says, but stops the hearing of it in their heart, is carnally minded. I don't believe it comes from the spirit, because the spirit is made to receive only the truth.

 

[pdudgeon]

all of the above is good!

We know that the word of God is good--it cannot be anything else.

but between the sending of the word (seed) by God to the messenger (sower) and the receiving of that word by the hearer (the field) we have both time and opportunity for satan to act on each of them.

the good news is that God is still on His throne.

so even if satan does act on either or both the sower or the receiver, God can still bring good from the situation, provided there are soft, pliable hearts available for Him to work thru.

 

[FrankFaith]

Great!!

OK--now, we know that Faith works by Love...

We already possess the balloon: Faith. Love makes Faith work (Faith works by Love) --so Love is like the hot air that fills the balloon. When the balloon receives the hot air, it then functions as it was designed--it raises!

Phil 4:8 describes this fuel of hot air:

True, worthy of reverence, honorable and seemly, just, pure, lovely and lovable, kind, winsome, gracious, virtue and excellence, worthy of praise... (Amplified)

*When our words reflects Phil 4:8, others' Faith begins to function--their Faith balloon raises!!!

But when our words are...

Untrue, not worthy of reverence, dishonorable and unseemly, unjust, impure, ugly and hateful, unkind, heavy, ungracious, lack virtue and excellence, and are not worthy of praise...

Then we hurt others--and we are spreading bad news!

 

[God_Owned]

Great!!

OK--now, we know that Faith works by Love...

We already possess the balloon: Faith. Love makes Faith work (Faith works by Love) --so Love is like the hot air that fills the balloon. When the balloon receives the hot air, it then functions as it was designed--it raises!

Phil 4:8 describes this fuel of hot air:

True, worthy of reverence, honorable and seemly, just, pure, lovely and lovable, kind, winsome, gracious, virtue and excellence, worthy of praise... (Amplified)

*When our words reflects Phil 4:8, others' Faith begins to function--their Faith balloon raises!!!

But when our words are...

Untrue, not worthy of reverence, dishonorable and unseemly, unjust, impure, ugly and hateful, unkind, heavy, ungracious, lack virtue and excellence, and are not worthy of praise...

Then we hurt others--and we are spreading bad news!

What is the hot air?

 

[FrankFaith]

The Balloon works by hot air--hot air makes the balloon raise/function as it was designed to function.

Faith works by Love--Love makes Faith function as God designed it to function!

The hot air is Love!