Calling all soldiers...

[Athalia]

i've watched movies in my boyfriends apartment alone on his BED nothing happend. a guy who can't control himself should be held accoutnable. not the girl. but thats why so many women don't come forward when they ahve been sexually assulted. society view them as sullied and often make them feel as if it were their fault, not the mans.

and in the post cited, she said she kept saying no. he didn't stop. that equals a jerk and bad guy.

 

[intricatic]

i've watched movies in my boyfriends apartment alone on his BED nothing happend. a guy who can't control himself should be held accoutnable. not the girl. but thats why so many women don't come forward when they ahve been sexually assulted. society view them as sullied and often make them feel as if it were their fault, not the mans.

and in the post cited, she said she kept saying no. he didn't stop. that equals a jerk and bad guy.

There's definitely something to say for this, as well. But should it be completely the guy's responsibility, with no fault to the woman? Not all guys are jerks, and not all guys are bad, but this doesn't mean that good guys don't sometimes fall into that kind of temptation. It goes to say that they shouldn't be allowing that kind of situation to come up, but neither should the woman - especially if she doesn't know the guy very well.

This isn't to blame the woman, and it's not to blame the guy. It's to say that situations like this can be avoided from both sides. That's speaking logically.

 

[ChrisWin1]

Of course it's temptation for everyone, except those who do not have hormones, or are not physically attracted to one another. The question is whether a person has the ability to overcome that temptation or not.

You're right. I made a mistake then. Perhaps I should have said something like --

Dude, what YOU might think will be temptation that everyone will cave in to, is not that for EVERYONE.

Mature adults who have a mind and heart and soul for Christ will often do the right thing. It's those who truly don't who may have a problem.

Caving in to temptation does not happen in every situation whether it's a hotel room or anywhere. I'm not saying two people should go get a hotel room together to attempt this because they think, "Hey no problem"... but it is perfectly possible to have an innocent evening together anywhere with nothing indecent or immoral happening. Don't assume that no two people can resist temptation and should be separated until marriage unless with chaparone. My goodness, that's just nuts.

 

[Athalia]

i guess the main issue here is, how can a woman know if she can truely trust a man in this area?

and we want to trust those we have feelings for so that makes it harder.

i am sure a man would like to trust the woman he is with to not cheat on him or unduly tempt him into sin.

Honestly: how can i know if i can trust a man? I once thought i could trust someone. and that wasn't true. so how can a girl know?

cause if i am dating someone i want to trust them. and i want to spend time alone with them because if i marry them then i will be spending time alone with them... and it would be nice to know that they arent a complete bore for example

 

[Pyrogenesis]

i guess the main issue here is, how can a woman know if she can truely trust a man in this area?

That's a good question. I'll try answer it in the context a situation I find myself in:

At this point in time I'm attracted to a young lady from my church. We know each other from church and worship team activities, but we don't really know a whole lot about each other. I'm sort of chasing her at the moment, but how can I present oppourtunities for her to get to know my heart without putting us in potentially compromising situations?

First of all, I asked her out for coffee. That was cool because we were in an open air cafe. Then I took her out for lunch, twice. Each time during her lunch break at work, and each time in an open air resturant. I paid, of course. Then I sent her flowers at work. Next I asked if I could hang out with her and her flatmates at her place (That's this Friday).

Here are the things I made sure of:

1: We were never alone, anywhere. Firstly because I don't want other people thinking there was something going on, and secondly because I don't know how she feels about me; I don't want to make her uncomfortable.

After we got along really well at coffee and lunch, I talked with the wife of my pastor about it. I wanted to make sure that my church leadership were ok with this. A little overboard? Prehaps, but I'd rather be too cautious than too flippant. Anyway, she was ok with it.

2: Sending her flowers at work, well, I wanted her to know how I felt, but I didn't want to put her on the spot by expecting an instant response or reaction. I wanted her to have time to think about it, not be overcome with "Oh my gosh he sent me flowers", etc.

3: Hanging out at her place with her AND her friends; I want to get to know her outside of church, I want her friends to get an impression about me too, and I still don't want to give rumour or temtation a chance by being alone. I also want her to be in a place that's her 'territory', somewhere she feels comfortable. Her friends are important to me too; I don't want her to feel like she's flying blind in this, I want her to be able to talk about it with the people she already trusts. I also fully expect her to ask around about me; what do my female friends think about me? What do the pastors think?

So how do you know you can trust a guy in this area?

1: He will never agree to be alone with you. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 - "Abstain from all appearance of evil."

2: He will give you space and time. He will never push you for a commitment. After a few dates he may ask about it, but if you say "I don't know" then his answer should be "That's OK", not "Aww, come on!" 1 Corinthians 13:4 - "Love is patient"


4: He will be open to being asked "What are your intentions?" He should have nothing to hide. 1 Corinthians 13:6 - "Love rejoices in the truth."

5: He will be hesitant about getting physical! This one is a really good indicator. If you have to constantly resist his advances then he's giving you what you want in order to take what he wants. 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not behave rudely, does not seek to take for itself"

Those are the things I can think of at the moment. I'm not saying that all guys that don't follow those to the letter are bad; it could just be that they're naive. Let's say a guy asks you over to his place and you'd be alone. Don't automatically write him off, just say "I'm not comfortable with being alone in your house, can we go to *somewhere* or can *friends* come over too?" If his intentions are on the level then he'll be fine with that. He just wants to hang out with you because he likes your company.

 

[Athalia]

that makes a lot of sense to me, pyrogenesis.

If i may ask, as a relationship progresses, is it ok to spend time alone together? and how do you go about that in the scripturally ways you have quoted?

 

[Pyrogenesis]

that makes a lot of sense to me, pyrogenesis.

If i may ask, as a relationship progresses, is it ok to spend time alone together? and how do you go about that in the scripturally ways you have quoted?

That's a good question. It depends on what you call 'alone'. If we were in the lounge of her house and her flatmates were in their rooms (awake, not asleep) then I'd be fine with that. Alone in a bedroom with the door ajar (ie, free for people to just open), then I suppose that's ok if other people are around. Hanging out outside, walking on the beach, etc. would all be cool in my books.

I don't want to get all legalistic about it, but I do want to be wise. After all, as the relationship does progress and you get to know one another better then there is a greater measure of trust. The measures I mentioned aren't there to stop anything improper from happening; if a couple want to get intimate then there's not much that's going to stop them. They're to stop the tempation before it starts, to keep the relationship honest, and to avoid the appearance of evil.

At the end of the day you can have all the rules and regulations in the world, but if the heart isn't in the right place then mistakes will happen. I think with the application of a little wisdom and common sense, things won't get out of hand if hormones do decide to make an unwelcome appearance ahead of time.

 

[sherri]

That's a good question. It depends on what you call 'alone'. If we were in the lounge of her house and her flatmates were in their rooms (awake, not asleep) then I'd be fine with that. Alone in a bedroom with the door ajar (ie, free for people to just open), then I suppose that's ok if other people are around. Hanging out outside, walking on the beach, etc. would all be cool in my books.

I don't want to get all legalistic about it, but I do want to be wise. After all, as the relationship does progress and you get to know one another better then there is a greater measure of trust. The measures I mentioned aren't there to stop anything improper from happening; if a couple want to get intimate then there's not much that's going to stop them. They're to stop the tempation before it starts, to keep the relationship honest, and to avoid the appearance of evil.

At the end of the day you can have all the rules and regulations in the world, but if the heart isn't in the right place then mistakes will happen. I think with the application of a little wisdom and common sense, things won't get out of hand if hormones do decide to make an unwelcome appearance ahead of time.

Great posts. Thanks for sharing all that pyrogenesis. Thats pretty much the way I would want to approach it too. You have no idea how encouraging it is hearing a guy say all those kinds of things. Maybe a lot of guys do think like that, but I've almost always subconciously felt like I had to be on the defensive when I was alone with guys. Not because their intentions were necessarily dodgy. Most wern't. But when you're put alone in a situation with a guy straightaway, which is what almost always happens in dating, it can be hard to relax. And as you said. It just opens the door to temptation later on if you build the whole relationship around those lines.
Appreciate all your posts on this.

 

[OhhJim]

I'm sorry you sound bitter or angry at women. What I am talking about basically refers to married men, but as I am taught you don't wait until you are married to do this. Here's a little of what I'm talking about.


Prayer & Intercession
Women tend to be more comfortable praying than men are. For some reason, men tend to leave this area to their wives. However, as priests, the man should be the number one prayer warrior in the family.
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11:3) As head, men are in a unique prayer position. They, and only they, can offer prayer protection and covering to their wives and children. Nobody else is in the unique position to offer that protection. Satan desires to attack and destroy your family. But "No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house." (Mark 3:27 & Matthew 12:29) How does Satan bind you? By keeping you from praying. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Ephesians 6:12) This battle is one that can only be won in prayer. No matter how strong a man is physically, no matter how good a fighter he is in the physical, he can't use that to protect his family. It is only by battling in prayer that men can truly protect their families.

And I'm sorry you get false impressions and jump to conclusions so easily. Perhaps this tendency is not permanent.

Once again, where is the verse saying that men are to "Cover the women"? It's not in the scriptures you quoted.

 

[Pyrogenesis]

And I'm sorry you get false impressions and jump to conclusions so easily. Perhaps this tendency is not permanent.

Once again, where is the verse saying that men are to "Cover the women"? It's not in the scriptures you quoted.

I'll bite. No fighting in my thread

Here's a few verses that I was able to find, all sugesting that the husband in the head of his wife, and is to protect her. Even Ephesians 5:23-25 would have been enough for me; husbands are supposed to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. ie. prepared to lay down their lives for their wives, and inteceding constantly on their behalf (Romans 8:34)

Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
(1 Corinthians 7:3)

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.
(Ephesians 5:23-25)

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church.
(Ephesians 5:28-29)

Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
(1 Timothy 3:12)

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands
(1 Peter 3:1a)

giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
(1 Peter 3:7b)


Are all men in general called to cover over all women? Not actively, no. But there are times when a man is called to intercede on behalf of a woman that is not his wife. For example, there is a single mother in my church that I am good friends with. As a man, I have occasionally taken authority and used my strength to stop the attacks of the enemy on her and her son. I take responsibility as a male role model for her son. Now, if she didn't want me to do those things I wouldn't, but she needed strength and intercession, and I had them to offer; more, it was my duty as her brother in Christ to step up and offer them where another man had left her without.

 

[Irascible]

As you allude to Pyro, all of those verses refer to husbands and wives. The Bible is full of "one another verses". We are to take care of each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, that much is certain. But I'm seeing Jim's point in that there is no specific call for single men to take care of single women. I will gladly alter my view if the appropriate scriptures come forth.

In fact, there are occasions where it is absolutely wrong for a brother in Christ to help a single sister. Single moms in strife especially are often emotionally vulnerable. A knight in shining armor can easily be misconstrued as a love interest. Catching such ladies on the rebound is wrong. It's bad for them and very bad for their kids. I'm not saying brothers aren't to help single sisters. But there are times and places where they absolutely should not.

If you want to look to the Bible as to what man takes care of the single sister, it was her father. That was more a cultural phenomenon than a Biblical commandment I think. In today's age it is often not practical as women stay single longer. But you must admit, if you have a good father around then the old fashioned way of doing it was pretty awesome. That old stereotype where dad pulls the young man aside before dating his daughter and explains what bodily harm will come if she is hurt… I get tickled pink just thinking about it.