Why is being prosperous and healthy considered wrong?

[Rockrz]

I'm hearing alot of bad press about preachers that bring out scriptures that show it is God's will for us to have good things. You know, prosper in every area of life, and living a physically healthy live as examples.

There's plenty of scriptures to back this up, and we know God is good. He desires good things for His children just like any good Father would.

Is it that some Christians just can't bring themselves to believe that they are worth anything to God? I mean, He gave Jesus to purchase us from sin! Considering that, why is it so hard to believe that God will with Jesus freely give us all things (Romans 8:32)?

Heck, if being prosperous and healthy is considered wrong, then Heaven must be full of sinners because they are all healthy and prosperous in every area of their existance. Jesus declared that God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Matthew 6:10)

So why all the controversy?

 

[StAnselm]

I have another question, why do people ask questions that are false dichotomies?

 

[shezshy]

voted yes but here's the thing: God probably wishes us much wealth to DO GOOD with.He may also wish for us great power.Power used to fight evil,do good deeds.I don't think this happens as much as He wishes though.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I'm hearing alot of bad press about preachers that bring out scriptures that show it is God's will for us to have good things. You know, prosper in every area of life, and living a physically healthy live as examples.

There's plenty of scriptures to back this up, and we know God is good. He desires good things for His children just like any good Father would.

Is it that some Christians just can't bring themselves to believe that they are worth anything to God? I mean, He gave Jesus to purchase us from sin! Considering that, why is it so hard to believe that God will with Jesus freely give us all things (Romans 8:32)?

Heck, if being prosperous and healthy is considered wrong, then Heaven must be full of sinners because they are all healthy and prosperous in every area of their existance. Jesus declared that God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Matthew 6:10)

So why all the controversy?

Well some people just believe that all christians should be poor but mostly because it's a question of importance. Some of these prosparity preachers place way too much importance on wealth and material things and not enough on the things that really matter. What happends is that people end up loving the things of this world when Jesus told us not to.

shezshy made a good post. The one thing to remember is that no matter how much someone believes that they have earned their money or wealth and no matter how much people believe they deserve what they have earned the fact of the matter is that none of it would have been posible if God hadn't given favor to them to begin with.

Now if a christian has money then they should be good stewards of what God has favored them with. I have nothing against by rich brothers and sisters in Christ, as long as they are good stewards of what God has frely given them.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

I'm hearing alot of bad press about preachers that bring out scriptures that show it is God's will for us to have good things. You know, prosper in every area of life, and living a physically healthy live as examples.

There's plenty of scriptures to back this up, and we know God is good. He desires good things for His children just like any good Father would.

Is it that some Christians just can't bring themselves to believe that they are worth anything to God? I mean, He gave Jesus to purchase us from sin! Considering that, why is it so hard to believe that God will with Jesus freely give us all things (Romans 8:32)?

Heck, if being prosperous and healthy is considered wrong, then Heaven must be full of sinners because they are all healthy and prosperous in every area of their existance. Jesus declared that God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Matthew 6:10)

So why all the controversy?

1 tim 6:5b supposeing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. col 3:5

philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things

it all where there focus is if on money it clear..


we as christians are only promised food and one pair of clothing...1 tim 6:8
God calls us to look at are postition in the heavenlies where God has fill us full of his grace and made us rich in spirit!

 

[daveleau]

The instances where Scripture discusses wealth being wrong is in the context of seeking wealth over the desire to seek God. We are not to love anything, including our own families, more than God. Wealth is not a problem unless the person with it cherishes it too much.

 

[Harlan Norris]

The issue is not prosperity and health. It's whether you love your life, that is possesions,family,friends,position,more than God. Ask anyone who fears God how they feel. They will say, Oh these things I have are nothing to me, God is all I care about. However this may not be entirely true. There's no doubt in my mind that great personal wealth, causes us to love the world. This is foolishness of course. We will be separated from all our worldly goods at death, and sometimes earlier. The median income, worldwide, is 10,000, a year. That number is middle class in the world. If you have more you are rich. It's hard to imagine living on that, here in the good ole USA. It's a good idea to keep in mind, just how blessed we are.

 

[linssue55]

I'm hearing alot of bad press about preachers that bring out scriptures that show it is God's will for us to have good things. You know, prosper in every area of life, and living a physically healthy live as examples.

There's plenty of scriptures to back this up, and we know God is good. He desires good things for His children just like any good Father would.

Is it that some Christians just can't bring themselves to believe that they are worth anything to God? I mean, He gave Jesus to purchase us from sin! Considering that, why is it so hard to believe that God will with Jesus freely give us all things (Romans 8:32)?

Heck, if being prosperous and healthy is considered wrong, then Heaven must be full of sinners because they are all healthy and prosperous in every area of their existance. Jesus declared that God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Matthew 6:10)

So why all the controversy?

These are from the people that do not know God............to truely love God is not based on materialism or health, good or bad of either.....it is based on what is in our hearts from what the lord continues to give us, the UNSEEN....this is true prosperity and health.......

 

[A Brother In Christ]

These are from the people that do not know God............to truely love God is not based on materialism or health, good or bad of either.....it is based on what is in our hearts from what the lord continues to give us, the UNSEEN....this is true prosperity and health.......

accord to Phillippians 4:19 God has given all spiritual blessing to us In Christ whether a christian uses their POWER BALL of riches is whether they use eternal life which is in Christ

 

[bluemarkus]

what would profit your spiritual growth and knowledge and closeness to god more ? look at the great men of god as portraied in the bible. what were the phases in their lives that brought them deeper into god ?

lets embrace both, the good and the ugly ! we need both....

but live in a society that is obsessed with pleasure IMHO

greetings

MB

 

[5stringJeff]

I'm hearing alot of bad press about preachers that bring out scriptures that show it is God's will for us to have good things. You know, prosper in every area of life, and living a physically healthy live as examples.

There's plenty of scriptures to back this up, and we know God is good. He desires good things for His children just like any good Father would.

Is it that some Christians just can't bring themselves to believe that they are worth anything to God? I mean, He gave Jesus to purchase us from sin! Considering that, why is it so hard to believe that God will with Jesus freely give us all things (Romans 8:32)?

Heck, if being prosperous and healthy is considered wrong, then Heaven must be full of sinners because they are all healthy and prosperous in every area of their existance. Jesus declared that God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Matthew 6:10)

So why all the controversy?

First, it is clear from Scripture that not all people who pleased God were always healthy and wealthy. A look at the lives of Joseph, Moses, and most of the OT prophets, not to mention Christ Himself, will confirm that. If God decides to bless a particular person, that's great. But if God chose to bless everyone with money and good health by believing in him, every Christian would live to be rich old people. Obviously, that doesn't happen.
Second, there are too many "health-and-wealth" preachers who focus on physical blessings only, and not on spiritual blessings which glorify God and edify the church.
Third, and most important, we are called to be stewards of our money and possessions. In fact, they are not our possessions, they are God's. God has never relinquished ownership of anything in the Earth, to include us. Unfortunately, the health-and-wealth gospel teaches that all those things are ours for the taking.

 

[Rockrz]

Unfortunately, the health-and-wealth gospel teaches that all those things are ours for the taking.

1 Timothy 6:17
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy.

 

[MrJim]

There was this critter named Cho (I think it was Paul but he got a message from God and changed it to David) and he said that if you aren't rich and healthy then you are not in God's will. This is from his book Salvation, Health, and Prosperity (Creation House 1987)

He says, "If we are kings, shouldn't we have majesty, honor and material things befitting kings? This is our natural inheritance." Later, "If one professes to be a king, but is impoverished and helplessly sick in bed, how can people believe he is a king?"

It is this underlying attitude that is evil. I expect since Paul couldn't get healing from his "thorn in the flesh" he was not an effective servant of Christ...

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil (so I read). However it is not the money that is evil. Yet it is a true test of our relationship with God. God is not concerned in the least with what we give, but rather in what we keep. This is shown to us by the example given by the widow and the mites. Who gave the most? Well the pennies tossed in by the widow wouldn't be doing much for the kingdom compared to the big bucks the richer people were giving--but who gave the most?

To stand and say the God desires you to be a "King's Kid" and have all the material blessings there are stands in stark contrast to the teachings of Christ and the apostles.

 

[Rockrz]

It is this underlying attitude that is evil.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[BigNorsk]

Part of the problem with the prosperity preachers is they substitute their plan and ideas of what is best for themselves for God's plan.

Now note that scripture tells us that it is very rare for a wealthy man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Yet the preachers say God wants all his followers to be wealthy. Now which is better, to have wealth or have the kingdom? Is it fair then to rate how God loves you by how much wealth you have? Maybe you would be normal and wealth would trip you up. God would show his love by witholding wealth from you, but wait, you are demanding wealth. Maybe he will treat you like he treated Israel when he permitted them the kings they demanded, even when God warned them.

Close behind the prosperity gospel comes the ideas that those who do not have faith or are ill are that way because they lack faith or have some sin.

You really have to cut out Ecclesiastes from your Bible to make it all work.
Ecc 5:10-20 NET The one who loves money will never be satisfied with money, he who loves wealth will never be satisfied with his income. This also is futile. (11) When someone's prosperity increases, those who consume it also increase; so what does its owner gain, except that he gets to see it with his eyes? (12) The sleep of the laborer is pleasant whether he eats little or much but the wealth of the rich will not allow him to sleep. (13) Here is a misfortune on earth that I have seen: Wealth hoarded by its owner to his own misery. (14) Then that wealth was lost through bad luck; although he fathered a son, he does not have anything left to give him. (15) Just as he came forth from his mother's womb, naked will he return as he came, and he will take nothing in his hand that he may carry away from his toil. (16) This is another misfortune: Just as he came, so will he go. What did he gain from toiling for the wind? (17) Surely, he ate in darkness every day of his life, and he suffered greatly with sickness and anger. (18) I have seen personally what is the only beneficial and appropriate course of action for people: to eat and drink, and find enjoyment in all their hard work on earth during the few days of their life which God has given them, for this is their reward. (19) To every man to whom God has given wealth, and possessions, he has also given him the ability to eat from them, to receive his reward and to find enjoyment in his toil; this is the gift of God. (20) For he does not think much about the fleeting days of his life because God keeps him preoccupied with the joy he derives from his activity.

And Ecc 6:9-10 NET It is better to be content with what the eyes can see than for one's heart to always crave more. This continual longing is futile like chasing the wind. (10) Whatever has happened was foreordained, and what happens to man was also foreknown. It is useless for him to argue with God about his fate because God is more powerful than he is.

And Ecc 7:14-18 NET In times of prosperity be joyful, but in times of adversity consider this: God has made one as well as the other, so that no one can discover what the future holds. (15) During the days of my fleeting life I have seen both of these things: Sometimes a righteous man dies prematurely in spite of his righteousness, and sometimes a wicked man lives long in spite of his evil deeds. (16) So do not be excessively righteous or excessively wise; otherwise you might be disappointed. (17) Do not be excessively wicked and do not be a fool; otherwise you might die before your time. (18) It is best to take hold of one warning without letting go of the other warning; for the one who fears God will follow both warnings.

And Ecc 8:14 NET Here is another enigma that occurs on earth: Sometimes there are righteous men who get what the wicked deserve, and sometimes there are wicked men who get what the righteous deserve. I said, "This also is an enigma."

And Ecc 9:11 NET Again, I observed this on the earth: the race is not always won by the swiftest, the battle is not always won by the strongest; prosperity does not always belong to those who are the wisest, wealth does not always belong to those who are the most discerning, nor does success always come to those with the most knowledge for time and chance may overcome them all.

That's just a few but you get the idea. The Bible teaches that God uses all thing for good for those who believe. He promises us good things, but if that meant wealth, beauty and power, how do you explain the Apostles? Theirs was a life of being foolishness to the world. Many suffered horribly at times. So you have to preach a false gospel to preach that God want us to be wealthy if you mean wealth as having a big pile of cash. But many people that are quite poor by worldly standards are rich indeed, for they have happiness, contentment, and the peace that surpasses all understanding, and that is to be rich indeed.

Marv

 

[5stringJeff]

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Abundant life does not necessarily mean riches and material wealth. My life is much more abundant not because I have money, but because I have Christ.

 

[Rockrz]

prosperity preachers substitute their plan and ideas of what is best for themselves for God's plan

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish (pray) above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

note that scripture tells us that it is very rare for a wealthy man to enter the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 19:23
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, with men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

First off, notice the word HARDLY in verse 23, which is the key to the understanding of that verse...this word is doos-kol'-oce in the Greek (Strong’s #1423) which means impracticably. Jesus is saying that it is impractical for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of Heaven, and then goes on to say that with God ALL things are possible. (so, He DID NOT say that rich people aren't going to Heaven!)

Also notice that when His disciples heard this, they were "exceedingly amazed", saying "Who then can be saved?"...this shows that they were all RICH men because of the way they reacted. If they were poor, why didn't they say "you tell 'em Jesus...we're poor but proud!".

The reason it is impractical for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of Heaven is because most rich men have learned to trust in their own ways of doing things by operating according to the wisdom of this world and they would find it very hard (impractical) to change and go with God's ways of doing things since they have already obtained what they (and the world) consider to be success, which is getting financial wealth. This is why the Bible issues warnings to Christians to be aware that there is a temptation and a deception that comes with money to trust in money as your source of supply.

No where does it say we aren't supposed to have money. It simply says throughout the Bible to keep God first place in your life and always keep money down the list so it does not become your God. Proverbs 1:32 says that prosperity will destroy a fool...so if you learn how to keep God first, pay attention to His Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit, then you won't have any problems with having prosperity in your life.

In Philippians 4:15-19 the Apostle Paul speaks of receiving "stuff" that made him full (now come on, this included money because money is a need when you're out traveling...keep it real and not religious). And because of their giving, Paul desired fruit to abound to their account (there's that pesky seedtime harvest thing again!) and he went on to declare (words of faith that God honored since Paul was in the will of God by working his ministry) that His God would meet their need according to God's riches in Glory...while they are here (because there are NO needs in Heaven...they're all met up there)

Now in Mark 11:27 ("And they come again to Jerusalem: and as he was walking in the temple") through Mark 13:1, Jesus was in the temple preaching and teaching (Mark 12:35 says "while Jesus taught in the temple"). Now Mark 12:41 shows Jesus sitting over by the treasury where the people were coming to give offerings after Jesus had preached. This was the custom then (and still is today) when the man of God is finished ministering, the people give offerings unto the Lord to support the ministry that God has provided. This is done primarily for respect to God and to bless His servants.

Checkout the things Paul says here:

1 Corinthians 9:7
Who goeth a warfare any time at his own expense? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? (Paul advocates taking supplies from the flock!)

1 Corinthians 9:11
If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? (this is what Paul was talking about when he said those folks in Philippians 4:15-19 had "communicated" with him...they gave their goods, which includes money!)

In these examples, Paul and Jesus are accepting offerings...and in the temple where Jesus taught, Mark 12:41 says "many that were rich cast in much". This shows Jesus getting a big time payday for teaching in the temple! And, yes He was impressed by the widow who gave all she had...but He never said any bad things about the rich people who gave much. No, He accepted their cash is what He did because a workman is worthy of His hire and He's not going to deny them the opportunity to give into His ministry because He desires fruit to abound to their account. God is going to multiply their seed sown (increase their cash sown)

Now, here's the purpose for expecting a harvest when you give:

2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness)
11 Being enriched in every thing (*everything means everything, including MONEY!) to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God:
12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men

The harvest is because we need to produce more so we can give more! If sowing a seed to get a harvest were evil were evil, then God is evil because He planted Jesus (see John 3:16, and Luke 6:38) as a seed so He could reap a family to spend eternity with Him in His glorious presence!

And, according to 1 Corinthians 9:7 we should not go without personally while we are giving to support the Gospel because we should also be eating out of our own vineyard.

 

[MrJim]

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

It would indeed be a lame abundance if Jesus was speaking of materialism here...

What is the measure of abundance? By the H/W teachers it is easily measured by looking at the parking lot on a Sunday morning? Ministry effectiveness is measured by the number of Lincolns and Jags, not by carrying the cross. Not by the crucifying self. Not by the denying self.

This line of teaching is horribly dangerous and is a path to destruction...

 

[Rockrz]

It would indeed be a lame abundance if Jesus was speaking of materialism here...

No, He's speaking about adundance in EVERY area of your life...which includes material things. Ask the Jewish nation is God wants you to have adundance...they learn that God does, from God!

My whole point in this is that many in the church have believed that God wants us poor, which is not true.

Sure, the true blessings of God cannot be touched with all the money in the world (health, peace of mind, protection, friends, etc)...but that doesn't mean God wants us broke.

The devil is the only one who would benefit by the Body of Christ being broke...because we would be limited in the number of people we reach for Jesus. The message of salvation is free...but going out to preach it isn't.

Like it, or not...as long as you are here on planet earth, you are going to have to deal with money and material things. God desires for us to have abundance in this area, but we are to keep Him first place in our lives.

Anyone who feels like they can't handle this, should go broke...
God will still love you, and you can still go to Heaven!

 

[MrJim]

So it's ok to want to upgrade my material status even if it could be used better elsewhere?

You are confusing being poor with poverty. I can make a lot of money and be giving it away to the poor. It may look like I'm poor but I am not. I may drive a beater car because it is all I need, but it will appear that I am impoverished when I am not.

For anyone to judge me because I have not is a hazardous endevour when you don't know the whole story.