Thinking about the 5 fold and the gifts & ministries…
also thinking about the prophetic. It came to me the other week: like if someone is a prophet one way they can become a false prophet is by trying to come up with stuff (by whatever means) just so they can make a buck (like the psychics ). Then another way someone with a calling can get off track is by seeking God just so they can get a word or message. I understand how the pressure is there, especially if you have a track record. The temptation is there to want to keep up, stay on the ball, keep up a reputation. But the Bible talks about-
This should be the real thing going on, like one wants to spends time with and hear from God just for themselves, because they enjoy it, for their own growth- not because they have to “come up with something”.
This keeps one “straight”, like the right motivation. Not to hear things just for other people, but something that just flows out of time spent with God. You spend time with God because you like it, you need it in itself not to try to get a word or new message/vision/foretelling etc…
I was just thinking about how it’s rough being prophetic (as in prophet). I don’t know who would want to choose that one? I mean if you don’t care if people like you, if you don’t mind losing friends like yesterdays news.. I guess maybe. Funny most prophetic people aren’t like that, that’s more the apostolic & administrator types. But those really aren’t that relationship oriented to begin with.
Pastors usually don’t make many enemies (ha, unless they are really strong ones), that’s how they are, they try to please people and float around and mix with everyone, don’t make too many waves etc…
Teachers usually don’t make too many enemies either, they usually got some group around them that follows or hangs on their every word, as long as they got that- they don’t care. Maybe if some people oppose a specific teaching of theirs, they will have some detractors, but that is more specific unlike with the prophets. The prophets wish it was just a certain group (then they can avoid them ha). So teachers have their fans and the respect of a group of people, but the rest usually don’t care unless the teacher is fairly well known and it is known that they teach the opposite of some other.
Evangelists are usually pretty popular because of their social friendly personality, of course once they start talking about God they can lose them, but they’ll get more quick and so on. I don’t really know how they feel about it. Maybe they don’t care, because most seem pretty buoyant and I guess as they have someone around to talk to, entertain and preach to they’re fine.
Apostles can make tons of enemies because of their attitude, straight forwardness, and usual dominant type personality- mostly they really don’t care, it must be great to have an iron hide, & or a brain that doesn’t notice or care. Sometimes they avoid making enemies as certain people are just in awe of them and such and try to overlook the harder to swallow aspects of them. It seems the enemies they do make can be pretty bitter (maybe like the prophets as well), they also have a ton of people who are jealous of them. So I’ll admit people with an apostolic gift usually have a rough life, but God has given them a kind of hardened personality where they don’t feel it as much.
Prophet types are usually a bit different or odd to begin with, so right there it starts out rough. I don’t think most care about what people think about them, or care about being different. They are pretty comfortable with being different, being themselves- but that doesn’t mean they aren’t bothered by other people not letting them be, they don’t enjoy people giving them a hard time. If one reads the Bible the prophets didn’t enjoy the stuff they had to go through with the people. They were happy with themselves and their relationship with God and were usually exasperated or at least troubled that they had to deal with people who wouldn’t receive them or who would give them a hard time (that they didn’t ask for). If one looks at how they were, most (that I can think of now) seemed to be reluctant prophets- not like many today who are jumping into & with it. I mean it was always seemed like, “God do I really have to do this,” type thing. Look at Jonah, Jeremiah, Hosea I think, Isaiah etc…maybe even Moses. God had to like coax them. He had to remind them that He would be with them, that they were dong stuff for Him. It’s not usually that the prophets didn’t love the people, but it was they had a sense of what was going to happen. That, the people were not going to receive them and that they were going to have a hard time of it. Usually they were right, and God didn’t say they weren’t, God just said they had to do it anyway.
Ha I think of those different verses where some person/people would say when the prophet came along: “Oh no so & so is coming, they never have anything good to say.”. I mean who wants to be known like that? Then it seems most of the prophets had to deal with heaviness & or depression. They usually bore some burden either for a group of people, their nation, the fact of all the sin around them, or then when they weren’t focused on that, they felt bad for themselves. (So I guess it is better to carry a burden than turn it and waste it on yourself, sit around and mope & be overcome by self-pity). At least the other way they were pleasing God and building up a reward for themselves in heaven- plus occasionally some did listen to them and were helped. So far, you got: being different, people saying & or thinking here comes trouble when you arrive on the scene, constantly walking around with some spiritual/emotional burden….Then you might get some on your side who see God is with you, think you’re spiritual, and or that you’re helping someone- then you have to drop the boom on them and bye-bye. Only the most honest of people can take hanging around with a prophet (unless the boom hasn’t come down yet) say like a David, type.
Pilate & Herod were honest with themselves at least, but they were weak men. They both cared too much what other people thought. And so, against their feelings and better judgment they killed John the Baptist & then Jesus.
I just love the whole story with Pilate (oh the drama of it). Jesus knew Pilate knew who he really was. Jesus was just trying to get Pilate to admit it out loud. Pilate struggled a bit internally with it, God even brought his wife into it by giving her a warning dream about Jesus. Yet Pilates fears won out. He could not openly bring himself to acknowledge Jesus. In the end all he could do was throw this bone towards Jesus & God by putting this sign above the crucified Jesus - “The King Of The Jews”. He had even tried to make some kind of symbolic sign to ease his conscience by washing his hands in front of the people, claiming this was not his doing- he really didn’t want a part in it. True it wasn’t mainly his fault, he did try to get Jesus out of it, he didn’t want Jesus dead. Jesus knew this, but Jesus was asking for more. Jesus asks for our heart.
At Pilates heart he had some roots of the fear of man. Jesus wanted to free him of that. He knew Pilate couldn’t be His until Pilate was free of that, and until the put his trust in Jesus. He need to put his trust that if he did acknowledge Jesus as God , that God would protect him from the mob, the other officials and everyone else. He had to trust that God had his best in mind and that things would be OK. He didn’t surrender though. He made various gestures to allude to his feelings about Jesus. God wanted more than just feelings he wanted real action and for Pilate to give all of his heart including this secret place. When he told Jesus don’t you know who I am? I think it was like a plea to Jesus. I think most of it was, Pilate kept making pleas to Jesus, however in hidden veiled form- but Jesus did know what Pilate was trying to say.
I love it I love it, Pilate kept trying to answer Jesus though questions but Jesus knew Pilate wasn’t really questioning but rather making statements though his questions, and Jesus kept calling Him out on it.
When Jesus said to Pilate, ”Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice”. Pilate responded with this seemingly deep saying implying this is too complicated, who can know… Pilate responded “Truth, what is truth?” Trying to cover up that he did get what Jesus was saying. He was trying to pretend to Jesus that he didn’t really get what was going on, that he didn’t have a clue that Jesus was the son of God….he was trying to play mind games with Jesus, but Jesus cut straight to the heart.
Pilate also did the same with the people. He tried to get Jesus released without making it known that he secretly wanted to support Jesus. He wanted the best of both worlds. He didn’t want the problems chastisement, and probable loss of power that would come with openly supporting Jesus, he knew it may cost him his life & everything.
Yet there was this back and forth between them, part of Pilate did believe in Jesus and wished to support him. It is so cool & deep how they have this heart to heart conversation, that no one else would get the real meaning of what was being said and going on- just though their words. Their words said one thing but the meanings were something else & or something more. Jesus didn’t respond to Pilates spoken words or actions for that matter but Jesus responded to what Pilate was really saying behind them.
I also think when Pilate said to Jesus, ”Where are you from?”, that it was really a plea to Jesus.
Like, Jesus since you are God and came from Heaven, get me out of this, why do you have to make me do this? Pilate realized in a way he was too was being tried & crucified (by God). In these moments facing the Son of God, it was Pilates trial. He (though in not obvious words) was pleading with Jesus to let him go, of these demands, let him go to keep on being Pilate & not have to be “crucified”, to not suffer public humiliation. But, Jesus would not release him or guarantee from this requirement.
Pilate was also trying to talk himself into unbelief, but with every question he asked Jesus he convinced himself even more- that this was God and he was on trial.
So therefore he turned to the people (from which he thought he got his power, though Jesus tried to tell him , he would not have that position unless God had given it to him.) Yet, the people would not let him (or Jesus) go either. Ultimately sadly, Pilate chose to be found guilty and condemned to death by God, instead of trusting God and throwing himself at Jesus mercy. Jesus said if you confess me before men I will confess you before my Father in Heaven, but if you deny me I’ll deny you. Pilate in the end chose not to trust God but to deny Jesus, and so on judgment day Jesus had to deny him.
I really feel for Pilate. I think, to me at least this is the clearest hardest struggle that I see someone in having to receive God/Jesus. Most others it’s just like yes or no, no deep consideration, no internal fight.
I think history says Pilate later went insane, no wonder.
We’ll I sure got off into that….Apostolic types are better at being around prophets either in the natural & in the Lord. Usually they like things that are different/new, they are bold and also usually not afraid to be themselves & or care what people think. So they don’t really care what people think about them being around a prophet type, nor do they care deeply if the prophet says something they don’t like- especially and or only if they are getting something out of the relationship.
More another time…
also thinking about the prophetic. It came to me the other week: like if someone is a prophet one way they can become a false prophet is by trying to come up with stuff (by whatever means) just so they can make a buck (like the psychics ). Then another way someone with a calling can get off track is by seeking God just so they can get a word or message. I understand how the pressure is there, especially if you have a track record. The temptation is there to want to keep up, stay on the ball, keep up a reputation. But the Bible talks about-
This should be the real thing going on, like one wants to spends time with and hear from God just for themselves, because they enjoy it, for their own growth- not because they have to “come up with something”.
This keeps one “straight”, like the right motivation. Not to hear things just for other people, but something that just flows out of time spent with God. You spend time with God because you like it, you need it in itself not to try to get a word or new message/vision/foretelling etc…
I was just thinking about how it’s rough being prophetic (as in prophet). I don’t know who would want to choose that one? I mean if you don’t care if people like you, if you don’t mind losing friends like yesterdays news.. I guess maybe. Funny most prophetic people aren’t like that, that’s more the apostolic & administrator types. But those really aren’t that relationship oriented to begin with.
Pastors usually don’t make many enemies (ha, unless they are really strong ones), that’s how they are, they try to please people and float around and mix with everyone, don’t make too many waves etc…
Teachers usually don’t make too many enemies either, they usually got some group around them that follows or hangs on their every word, as long as they got that- they don’t care. Maybe if some people oppose a specific teaching of theirs, they will have some detractors, but that is more specific unlike with the prophets. The prophets wish it was just a certain group (then they can avoid them ha). So teachers have their fans and the respect of a group of people, but the rest usually don’t care unless the teacher is fairly well known and it is known that they teach the opposite of some other.
Evangelists are usually pretty popular because of their social friendly personality, of course once they start talking about God they can lose them, but they’ll get more quick and so on. I don’t really know how they feel about it. Maybe they don’t care, because most seem pretty buoyant and I guess as they have someone around to talk to, entertain and preach to they’re fine.
Apostles can make tons of enemies because of their attitude, straight forwardness, and usual dominant type personality- mostly they really don’t care, it must be great to have an iron hide, & or a brain that doesn’t notice or care. Sometimes they avoid making enemies as certain people are just in awe of them and such and try to overlook the harder to swallow aspects of them. It seems the enemies they do make can be pretty bitter (maybe like the prophets as well), they also have a ton of people who are jealous of them. So I’ll admit people with an apostolic gift usually have a rough life, but God has given them a kind of hardened personality where they don’t feel it as much.
Prophet types are usually a bit different or odd to begin with, so right there it starts out rough. I don’t think most care about what people think about them, or care about being different. They are pretty comfortable with being different, being themselves- but that doesn’t mean they aren’t bothered by other people not letting them be, they don’t enjoy people giving them a hard time. If one reads the Bible the prophets didn’t enjoy the stuff they had to go through with the people. They were happy with themselves and their relationship with God and were usually exasperated or at least troubled that they had to deal with people who wouldn’t receive them or who would give them a hard time (that they didn’t ask for). If one looks at how they were, most (that I can think of now) seemed to be reluctant prophets- not like many today who are jumping into & with it. I mean it was always seemed like, “God do I really have to do this,” type thing. Look at Jonah, Jeremiah, Hosea I think, Isaiah etc…maybe even Moses. God had to like coax them. He had to remind them that He would be with them, that they were dong stuff for Him. It’s not usually that the prophets didn’t love the people, but it was they had a sense of what was going to happen. That, the people were not going to receive them and that they were going to have a hard time of it. Usually they were right, and God didn’t say they weren’t, God just said they had to do it anyway.
Ha I think of those different verses where some person/people would say when the prophet came along: “Oh no so & so is coming, they never have anything good to say.”. I mean who wants to be known like that? Then it seems most of the prophets had to deal with heaviness & or depression. They usually bore some burden either for a group of people, their nation, the fact of all the sin around them, or then when they weren’t focused on that, they felt bad for themselves. (So I guess it is better to carry a burden than turn it and waste it on yourself, sit around and mope & be overcome by self-pity). At least the other way they were pleasing God and building up a reward for themselves in heaven- plus occasionally some did listen to them and were helped. So far, you got: being different, people saying & or thinking here comes trouble when you arrive on the scene, constantly walking around with some spiritual/emotional burden….Then you might get some on your side who see God is with you, think you’re spiritual, and or that you’re helping someone- then you have to drop the boom on them and bye-bye. Only the most honest of people can take hanging around with a prophet (unless the boom hasn’t come down yet) say like a David, type.
Pilate & Herod were honest with themselves at least, but they were weak men. They both cared too much what other people thought. And so, against their feelings and better judgment they killed John the Baptist & then Jesus.
I just love the whole story with Pilate (oh the drama of it). Jesus knew Pilate knew who he really was. Jesus was just trying to get Pilate to admit it out loud. Pilate struggled a bit internally with it, God even brought his wife into it by giving her a warning dream about Jesus. Yet Pilates fears won out. He could not openly bring himself to acknowledge Jesus. In the end all he could do was throw this bone towards Jesus & God by putting this sign above the crucified Jesus - “The King Of The Jews”. He had even tried to make some kind of symbolic sign to ease his conscience by washing his hands in front of the people, claiming this was not his doing- he really didn’t want a part in it. True it wasn’t mainly his fault, he did try to get Jesus out of it, he didn’t want Jesus dead. Jesus knew this, but Jesus was asking for more. Jesus asks for our heart.
At Pilates heart he had some roots of the fear of man. Jesus wanted to free him of that. He knew Pilate couldn’t be His until Pilate was free of that, and until the put his trust in Jesus. He need to put his trust that if he did acknowledge Jesus as God , that God would protect him from the mob, the other officials and everyone else. He had to trust that God had his best in mind and that things would be OK. He didn’t surrender though. He made various gestures to allude to his feelings about Jesus. God wanted more than just feelings he wanted real action and for Pilate to give all of his heart including this secret place. When he told Jesus don’t you know who I am? I think it was like a plea to Jesus. I think most of it was, Pilate kept making pleas to Jesus, however in hidden veiled form- but Jesus did know what Pilate was trying to say.
I love it I love it, Pilate kept trying to answer Jesus though questions but Jesus knew Pilate wasn’t really questioning but rather making statements though his questions, and Jesus kept calling Him out on it.
When Jesus said to Pilate, ”Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice”. Pilate responded with this seemingly deep saying implying this is too complicated, who can know… Pilate responded “Truth, what is truth?” Trying to cover up that he did get what Jesus was saying. He was trying to pretend to Jesus that he didn’t really get what was going on, that he didn’t have a clue that Jesus was the son of God….he was trying to play mind games with Jesus, but Jesus cut straight to the heart.
Pilate also did the same with the people. He tried to get Jesus released without making it known that he secretly wanted to support Jesus. He wanted the best of both worlds. He didn’t want the problems chastisement, and probable loss of power that would come with openly supporting Jesus, he knew it may cost him his life & everything.
Yet there was this back and forth between them, part of Pilate did believe in Jesus and wished to support him. It is so cool & deep how they have this heart to heart conversation, that no one else would get the real meaning of what was being said and going on- just though their words. Their words said one thing but the meanings were something else & or something more. Jesus didn’t respond to Pilates spoken words or actions for that matter but Jesus responded to what Pilate was really saying behind them.
I also think when Pilate said to Jesus, ”Where are you from?”, that it was really a plea to Jesus.
Like, Jesus since you are God and came from Heaven, get me out of this, why do you have to make me do this? Pilate realized in a way he was too was being tried & crucified (by God). In these moments facing the Son of God, it was Pilates trial. He (though in not obvious words) was pleading with Jesus to let him go, of these demands, let him go to keep on being Pilate & not have to be “crucified”, to not suffer public humiliation. But, Jesus would not release him or guarantee from this requirement.
Pilate was also trying to talk himself into unbelief, but with every question he asked Jesus he convinced himself even more- that this was God and he was on trial.
So therefore he turned to the people (from which he thought he got his power, though Jesus tried to tell him , he would not have that position unless God had given it to him.) Yet, the people would not let him (or Jesus) go either. Ultimately sadly, Pilate chose to be found guilty and condemned to death by God, instead of trusting God and throwing himself at Jesus mercy. Jesus said if you confess me before men I will confess you before my Father in Heaven, but if you deny me I’ll deny you. Pilate in the end chose not to trust God but to deny Jesus, and so on judgment day Jesus had to deny him.
I really feel for Pilate. I think, to me at least this is the clearest hardest struggle that I see someone in having to receive God/Jesus. Most others it’s just like yes or no, no deep consideration, no internal fight.
I think history says Pilate later went insane, no wonder.
We’ll I sure got off into that….Apostolic types are better at being around prophets either in the natural & in the Lord. Usually they like things that are different/new, they are bold and also usually not afraid to be themselves & or care what people think. So they don’t really care what people think about them being around a prophet type, nor do they care deeply if the prophet says something they don’t like- especially and or only if they are getting something out of the relationship.
More another time…
