YOUNG EARTH Vs. OLD EARTH

[ElxDalto]

Then you capitulate.

You gosh darn right. I'll stand for what I believe until you change my mind, which will have to be pretty convincing.

 

[greenguzzi]

You gosh darn right. I'll stand for what I believe until you change my mind, which will have to be pretty convincing.

So, what do you believe? You did change your stated position slightly.

 

[Doveaman]

I appreciate where you are coming from, but synonyms don't always mean the same as each other. Christ actually is the means of approach to God, but He isn't literally a door.

But a means of approach, admittance, or access by definition is indeed a door.

If the access is literal, then the door is also literal because the door is the means of literal access.

"In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you.
I am going there to prepare a place for you." -- (John 14:2).

Is Christ going to a metaphorical house or to a literal house?

 

[ElxDalto]

So, what do you believe? You did change your stated position slightly.

What did I change slightly?

God created the universe in 6 days. God created every animal kind. We are all descendants of Adam. Angels, nephilim, giants (of all things) existed. There was a global flood. Dinosaurs existed after the flood.

 

[greenguzzi]

But a means of approach, admittance, or access by definition is indeed a door.

If the access is literal, then the door is also literal because the door is the means of literal access.

"In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you.
I am going there to prepare a place for you." -- (John 14:2).

Is Christ going to a metaphorical house or to a literal house?

I think you and I differ in our understanding of what the word "literal" means. Maybe it's a regional thing. No matter.

 

[Doveaman]

I think you and I differ in our understanding of what the word "literal" means. Maybe it's a regional thing. No matter.

Yea, I agree it's regional.

There are literal things going on in heaven and literal things going on on earth.

 

[bhsmte]

What did I change slightly?

God created the universe in 6 days. God created every animal kind. We are all descendants of Adam. Angels, nephilim, giants (of all things) existed. There was a global flood. Dinosaurs existed after the flood.

And you base this belief on what exactly?

 

[greenguzzi]

Yea, I agree it's regional.

There are literal things going on in heaven and literal things going on on earth.

Hehe. Very good. I'll pay that one.

 

[Jimmy D]

What did I change slightly?

God created the universe in 6 days. God created every animal kind. We are all descendants of Adam. Angels, nephilim, giants (of all things) existed. There was a global flood. Dinosaurs existed after the flood.

You are free, of course, to believe what you like. As you are in this section of the message board though it's likely such assertions will be challenged. Shall we start with the global flood? Is there any evidence outside of the bible that suggests this happened?

 

[SteveB28]

What did I change slightly?

God created the universe in 6 days. God created every animal kind. We are all descendants of Adam. Angels, nephilim, giants (of all things) existed. There was a global flood. Dinosaurs existed after the flood.

I understand that the requisite question is........

'Were you there......?'

 

[RickG]

Dinosaurs existed after the flood.

Says who based on what?

 

[greenguzzi]

What did I change slightly?

Well first you replied to Cearbhall's post...

because they see no reason to think that the authors intended it to be a literal historical record...

...by saying:

The Bible says it.

Which shows that you subscribe to a literal interpretation of the Bible, as does your stated cosmogony.

But then you say:

All I have to say is yes, some parts of the bible shouldn't be taken literally

Which shows a subtle shift on your part to advance from a "the Bible says it" literalist to a more reasonable "let's talk hermeneutics". You have agreed with me that there is a line, we just need to discuss where that line is. Our disagreement is no longer one of fundamentals, but one of degrees.

This might not seem like much of a shift, but it's your faulty literalist bent that makes you prone to believe nonsense like "God created the universe in 6 days" and "dinosaurs existed after the flood". Now these things might be true, but there is no evidence for them, and no Biblical reason to believe them.

Your shift gives hope that you might re-evaluate your position. But then I'm known for being a hopeless optimist.

 

[greenguzzi]

Opening my old copy of New Horizons in Hermeneutics, I find chapter titles like "The Hermeneutics of Tradition", "Schleiermacher's Hermeneutics of Understanding", "The Hermeneutics of Self-Involvement: From Existentialist Models to Speech-Act Theory", "The Hermenteutics of Metacriticism", "The Hermeneutics of Suspicion and Retrieval" and "The Hermeneutics of Reading in Reader-Response Theories of Literary Meaning". Which of those should I be adopting, and why?

Ah, I see what you mean. I'll need to think about that one.

First I would say that for many (but not all) scriptures, it would be wise to use multiple hermeneutic techniques. In many cases this would result in converging results.

To go beyond that I would have to confess to a Dunning-Kruger moment.


I'd certainly be interested in any thoughts you might have to offer regarding your question.

 

[Cearbhall]

This might not seem like much of a shift, but it's your faulty literalist bent that makes you prone to believe nonsense like "God created the universe in 6 days" and "dinosaurs existed after the flood". Now these things might be true, but there is no evidence for them, and no Biblical reason to believe them.

Exactly. I would readily admit that these things could be true, but only in the sense that we could be living in the Matrix. The point is that there's no reason to think it's true.

 

[Herman Hedning]

Says who based on what?

Says Ken Ham based on nothing.

 

[LisaPar]

God created the universe in 6 days. God created every animal kind. We are all descendants of Adam. Angels, nephilim, giants (of all things) existed. There was a global flood. Dinosaurs existed after the flood.

Do you think just by quoting that nonsense they all somehow become magically true? everything you wrote is not true and will be dismissed until you can come up with some evidence that it should be taken seriously.
Just because you have a book means nothing because there are hundreds of books all saying similar things that you dismiss out of hand, why should anyone think your book is any different to all of the others? their magic is exactly the same as your magic.
The sooner all religions are consigned to the dustbin of history the better for everyone.

 

[freezerman2000]

Do you think just by quoting that nonsense they all somehow become magically true? everything you wrote is not true and will be dismissed until you can come up with some evidence that it should be taken seriously.
Just because you have a book means nothing because there are hundreds of books all saying similar things that you dismiss out of hand, why should anyone think your book is any different to all of the others? their magic is exactly the same as your magic.
The sooner all religions are consigned to the dustbin of history the better for everyone.

I agree with the first part of your post..except the last line...
This is my way of putting it-
The sooner people start applying the common sense to their own brand of religion and quit restricting God to words in a book,the better.
The Creation story tells us of WHAT God did..Science tells us HOW..
BTW,Welcome to CF!
Good to have you aboard!

 

[greenguzzi]

Do you think just by quoting that nonsense they all somehow become magically true? everything you wrote is not true and will be dismissed until you can come up with some evidence that it should be taken seriously.
Just because you have a book means nothing because there are hundreds of books all saying similar things that you dismiss out of hand, why should anyone think your book is any different to all of the others? their magic is exactly the same as your magic.
The sooner all religions are consigned to the dustbin of history the better for everyone.

Well @ElxDalto and I seem to have at least one important Biblical issue that we disagree on, and I agree with some of your points. But religion is here to stay. Religion is built into us humans.

Even though I disagree with @ElxDalto's literal interpretation of the creation account, I do agree with them on the fact that Genesis - along with all the books of the Bible - contains truth.

I disagree with @ElxDalto on their main hypothesis in this thread, and I suspect there is much that you and I would agree on. But I reckon that @ElxDalto is closer to the truth than you are. As important as science is, there are more important things in life and death than just getting the science right.

 

[ElxDalto]

Well @ElxDalto and I seem to have at least one important Biblical issue that we disagree on, and I agree with some of your points. But religion is here to stay. Religion is built into us humans.

Even though I disagree with @ElxDalto's literal interpretation of the creation account, I do agree with them on the fact that Genesis - along with all the books of the Bible - contains truth.

I disagree with @ElxDalto on their main hypothesis in this thread, and I suspect there is much that you and I would agree on. But I reckon that @ElxDalto is closer to the truth than you are. As important as science is, there are more important things in life and death than just getting the science right.

I can respect that.

 

[LisaPar]

But religion is here to stay. Religion is built into us humans.

Perhaps that's true because as we have seen all that usually changes over the centuries is the names of the Gods.
I think however that religions will soon be confined to the margins of societies and not be as influential as they are now,
what has happened in Europe will eventually spread to the US.