You must be mad!

[seekingsolace]

Never ceases to amaze me, how asking for a little sensitivity and consideration stirs up debates of 'freedom of speech'. A saddening problem of the world these days: entitlement.

Living in a world where others come first, would be a beautiful place...

 

[lupusFati]

It would. But then there probably wouldn't be humans in that world.

 

[com7fy8]

In post #52, above, I just discovered how maybe the spell check made it say the exact opposite of what I meant. So, I have corrected it >

But I think it is a good point, how people need to be strong so wrong people can't have power to hurt them with wrong words and other things.

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

But people are not perfect; so any of us can still be overly sensitive about certain things. So, we should feel for each other, but all of us need to become stronger so we can't be under the power of wrong people.

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

I am wearing thin from my real anxiety disorder, and I especially don't appreciate when people think I'm joking around when I mention it to them.

Yeah, I think I understand this.

If someone tells me something about himself or herself, I take the person's word for it. If someone tells me about a medical trouble, I pray for the person to be healed, including that the person deeply becomes strong in Jesus so the medical thing can't have power over the person to torment the person, but the person trusts God. And if someone tells me about a sin problem, I pray for the person to be deeply corrected and "healed" more into God's love >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

I am about 68 years old, and now I am forgetting stuff and losing things more; and I tell people this, and they outrightly deny there is anything wrong. I suspect some are afraid of Alzheimers and afraid of losing control and their independence; so they don't want to hear even the subject of Alzheimers and mental illnesses. They might not want to hear about a problem you have, because they don't know what to do about it and they fear it.

But I understand Jesus wants us to feel for any person, about their medical problems and also about our sin problems >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

So, if you find there are people who are sinful in how they treat you, I would say have compassion on them and pray for them and care about them . . . while we deal with how we our own selves can be selfish and so about ourselves.

I myself have been negative and critical and despising of others, and this keeps me from being able to love.

I can have paranoid stuff attacking me and accusing people of wanting to mess with me. But I don't have to believe it. And if I get into fearing those people, it is clear that the Bible says God's love keeps us from fear; so I understand that the fear is not only a physical medical problem >

"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

So, when paranoid stuff messes with me, I can first trust God to get rid of however I might fear and not love the imagined attacking people, then submit to how God has me pray for them like Jesus wants us to love enemies; this is spiritual, which we always can do while we are functioning in God's love, even while we may have medical problems >

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

So physical medical problems can't stop this which is done by God's grace which is spiritual and gives us peace, deeper than any medical trouble which is only physical > "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness," Jesus says in 2 Corinthians 12:9. So, yes I am weak, but God's grace is almighty, and God is spiritual enough > Paul discovered how in his "infirmities" he took "pleasure" while he handled his troubles in grace > 2 Corinthians 12:10.

So, there are things which are a spiritual problem and they are masquerading as being only physical mental problems. I might get attacked with paranoid stuff; this is not my fault; but if I start getting into fear, this is deeper. And if I have a memory problem, this may not be my fault, but fearing and getting nasty is a deeper problem. With Jesus, in His love we have "rest for your souls" spiritually (Matthew 11:28-30), even while our physical bodies have problems. And being unforgiving and expecting wrong people to change can be a way of not dealing with how I myself need correction > Hebrews 12:4-11, 1 Peter 4:17.

So, if people tell me they have a mental illness, I check to see if they have some selfish stuff sneaking around pretending to be part of their physical problem. The selfish stuff is not physical and medical, I offer, and our selfish stuff can be very deceptive to our own selves, and keep us from loving any and all people, including those who criticize and despise us. And the Bible is clear how we need to not allow any thing or person to have power over us (1 Corinthians 6:12, 1 Peter 3:13); so I don't buy how certain ones are promoting that people's circumstances and background have power to decide how a person is. Because if we are functioning in God's grace which is spiritual, this grace has God's own almighty peace which "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus", Paul says, in Philippians 4:6-7.

So, I am not being kind and compassionate if I don't help people know this and deal with how we all need correction. It can be "easier" to point our finger at how others are not being nice to us.

 

[Gadarene]

Never ceases to amaze me, how asking for a little sensitivity and consideration stirs up debates of 'freedom of speech'. A saddening problem of the world these days: entitlement.

Living in a world where others come first, would be a beautiful place...

It's not about entitlement, simply that attempts to control language invariably harm a much greater freedom and arguably aren't helping us to deal with stigmas. (I mean, I don't really think we're selling the idea that mentally ill people are more capable than other people by demanding that people stop using words that offend us. Most people don't do that.)

Also, without that freedom, no-one will saying much about anything, irrespective of their mental state.

It is, as I mentioned previously, also hypocritical. I think people who sneer at freedom of speech are doing something harmful, and it personally offends me. Genuinely.

That doesn't mean I get to demand that those people stop talking. And besides, it just highlights how it is only acceptable to restrict the speech of those deemed unfashionable in some way.

 

[seekingsolace]

It's not about entitlement, simply that attempts to control language invariably harm a much greater freedom and arguably aren't helping us to deal with stigmas. (I mean, I don't really think we're selling the idea that mentally ill people are more capable than other people by demanding that people stop using words that offend us. Most people don't do that.)

Also, without that freedom, no-one will saying much about anything, irrespective of their mental state.

It is, as I mentioned previously, also hypocritical. I think people who sneer at freedom of speech are doing something harmful, and it personally offends me. Genuinely.

That doesn't mean I get to demand that those people stop talking. And besides, it just highlights how it is only acceptable to restrict the speech of those deemed unfashionable in some way.

This isn't really about banning words or freedom of speech. It was about being more considerate to others. I find it absurd that any basis for an argument can be formulated against that.

Many of us are too careless with words, as we know: they can lift or crush the spirit of the recipient.

In addition to that, there is a stigma attached to mental illness. Certain terms can be a kick in the teeth for those affected, understandably people get upset.

We all have different sensitivities to words, and it is always difficult to assess how they affect others. So I don't mind taking extra care in how I speak, if it will help others. We would expect it ourselves.

 

[Catherineanne]

Never ceases to amaze me, how asking for a little sensitivity and consideration stirs up debates of 'freedom of speech'. A saddening problem of the world these days: entitlement.

Living in a world where others come first, would be a beautiful place...

Quite right. As if disrespecting other people is some kind of fundamental freedom. It isn't.

 

[Catherineanne]

This isn't really about banning words or freedom of speech. It was about being more considerate to others. I find it absurd that any basis for an argument can be formulated against that.

Many of us are too careless with words, as we know: they can lift or crush the spirit of the recipient.

In addition to that, there is a stigma attached to mental illness. Certain terms can be a kick in the teeth for those affected, understandably people get upset.

We all have different sensitivities to words, and it is always difficult to assess how they affect others. So I don't mind taking extra care in how I speak, if it will help others. We would expect it ourselves.

Thank you.

Of course we will all slip into careless language from time to time, but what matters is that we try.

 

[Catherineanne]

In post #52, above, I just discovered how maybe the spell check made it say the exact opposite of what I meant. So, I have corrected it >

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

Yeah, I think I understand this.

If someone tells me something about himself or herself, I take the person's word for it. If someone tells me about a medical trouble, I pray for the person to be healed, including that the person deeply becomes strong in Jesus so the medical thing can't have power over the person to torment the person, but the person trusts God. And if someone tells me about a sin problem, I pray for the person to be deeply corrected and "healed" more into God's love >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

I am about 68 years old, and now I am forgetting stuff and losing things more; and I tell people this, and they outrightly deny there is anything wrong. I suspect some are afraid of Alzheimers and afraid of losing control and their independence; so they don't want to hear even the subject of Alzheimers and mental illnesses. They might not want to hear about a problem you have, because they don't know what to do about it and they fear it.

But I understand Jesus wants us to feel for any person, about their medical problems and also about our sin problems >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

So, if you find there are people who are sinful in how they treat you, I would say have compassion on them and pray for them and care about them . . . while we deal with how we our own selves can be selfish and so about ourselves.

I myself have been negative and critical and despising of others, and this keeps me from being able to love.

I can have paranoid stuff attacking me and accusing people of wanting to mess with me. But I don't have to believe it. And if I get into fearing those people, it is clear that the Bible says God's love keeps us from fear; so I understand that the fear is not only a physical medical problem >

"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

So, when paranoid stuff messes with me, I can first trust God to get rid of however I might fear and not love the imagined attacking people, then submit to how God has me pray for them like Jesus wants us to love enemies; this is spiritual, which we always can do while we are functioning in God's love, even while we may have medical problems >

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

So physical medical problems can't stop this which is done by God's grace which is spiritual and gives us peace, deeper than any medical trouble which is only physical > "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness," Jesus says in 2 Corinthians 12:9. So, yes I am weak, but God's grace is almighty, and God is spiritual enough > Paul discovered how in his "infirmities" he took "pleasure" while he handled his troubles in grace > 2 Corinthians 12:10.

So, there are things which are a spiritual problem and they are masquerading as being only physical mental problems. I might get attacked with paranoid stuff; this is not my fault; but if I start getting into fear, this is deeper. And if I have a memory problem, this may not be my fault, but fearing and getting nasty is a deeper problem. With Jesus, in His love we have "rest for your souls" spiritually (Matthew 11:28-30), even while our physical bodies have problems. And being unforgiving and expecting wrong people to change can be a way of not dealing with how I myself need correction > Hebrews 12:4-11, 1 Peter 4:17.

So, if people tell me they have a mental illness, I check to see if they have some selfish stuff sneaking around pretending to be part of their physical problem. The selfish stuff is not physical and medical, I offer, and our selfish stuff can be very deceptive to our own selves, and keep us from loving any and all people, including those who criticize and despise us. And the Bible is clear how we need to not allow any thing or person to have power over us (1 Corinthians 6:12, 1 Peter 3:13); so I don't buy how certain ones are promoting that people's circumstances and background have power to decide how a person is. Because if we are functioning in God's grace which is spiritual, this grace has God's own almighty peace which "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus", Paul says, in Philippians 4:6-7.

So, I am not being kind and compassionate if I don't help people know this and deal with how we all need correction. It can be "easier" to point our finger at how others are not being nice to us.

With respect, unless you are diagnosed as paranoid you do not have 'paranoid stuff' messing with you, and far less attacking you.

This is not really the way to use that term, which is really the whole point of this thread; very often we don't even realise we are doing it until someone points it out.

Paranoia is a specific diagnosis with specific features and it can ONLY be diagnosed by a doctor. It is NOT being a bit worried, or a bit concerned about something, and to use the word as you have done minimises the seriousness of real paranoia.

Ditto Alzheimers; it is not just forgetting stuff. It is a real condition, with real symptoms, and it can be immensely distressing for the person concerned and their family.

I know your intentions are good, but that does not really help.

 

[Catherineanne]

It would. But then there probably wouldn't be humans in that world.

Of course there would. We are all capable of being considerate, and we all do it with people we like. The challenge is to stop treating people we don't know particularly well as if they are sub human.

 

[Gadarene]

Quite right. As if disrespecting other people is some kind of fundamental freedom. It isn't.

It is, actually. Freedom of speech includes freedom to offend, freedom to be rude etc.

 

[Catherineanne]

I never chose to be hurt by words. Happened anyway.

And even then it wasn't about the words, so much as the intent and feeling behind them. I have a heightened sense of empathy, so when I can feel all that negativity just pouring directly into my soul, you can bet I'm going to be messed up about it.

Those who think words have no power are part of the problem, and should just stop trying to "help".

Yes. As already posted, the letter of James makes the power of words very clear, and the Lord himself said that we are defiled by the words we speak.

James 3 1-12

 

[Gadarene]

Of course there would. We are all capable of being considerate, and we all do it with people we like. The challenge is to stop treating people we don't know particularly well as if they are sub human.

Using a word that some people happen to get in a tizzy about =/= treating them as if they are subhuman.

Cool the rhetoric down considerably - you might get somewhere.

 

[Gadarene]

With respect, unless you are diagnosed as paranoid you do not have 'paranoid stuff' messing with you, and far less attacking you.

This is not really the way to use that term, which is really the whole point of this thread; very often we don't even realise we are doing it until someone points it out.

Paranoia is a specific diagnosis with specific features and it can ONLY be diagnosed by a doctor. It is NOT being a bit worried, or a bit concerned about something, and to use the word as you have done minimises the seriousness of real paranoia.

Ditto Alzheimers; it is not just forgetting stuff. It is a real condition, with real symptoms, and it can be immensely distressing for the person concerned and their family.

I know your intentions are good, but that does not really help.

How do you know he hasn't been diagnosed? How do you know he won't be diagnosed?

As things stand, however, "paranoid" has a meaning outside of the clinical definition.

 

[Gadarene]

This isn't really about banning words or freedom of speech. It was about being more considerate to others. I find it absurd that any basis for an argument can be formulated against that.

The notion of supposedly being considerate to others is what very often drives repression of particular speech.

In addition to that, there is a stigma attached to mental illness. Certain terms can be a kick in the teeth for those affected, understandably people get upset.

You mean some of those affected - again, I have mental illness, I don't get offended by these terms. And frankly, I wish the people who do get offended by these terms who happen to be mentally ill would stop trying to put me in their box.

We all have different sensitivities to words, and it is always difficult to assess how they affect others. So I don't mind taking extra care in how I speak, if it will help others. We would expect it ourselves.

Coddling people isn't helping them, nor is creating a climate where people can't say anything for fear of offending someone. Especially not when this is done hypocritically.

(Again, I find the "we must watch what we say because people might get offended" routine offensive, but that won't stop any of you lot from yammering on about it, will it? There is no consistency here.)

 

[Hank77]

I think I actually would prefer people not call other people 'crazy' or 'insane'. It's a trigger word for my sister and, lately, for me.

Also, I'm not oversensitive. I've just been strong for far too long, and now I'm cracking.

Though I guess I technically AM oversensitive in the sense that I experience things about twice as much as others would.
If 1 negative erases 5 positives with neurotypical people, then 1 negative erases 10 positives for someone like me.

Not to mention the physical senses sometimes being overwhelmed by things that wouldn't bother other people. Such as light. And sound.

But hey, let's just treat sensitivity like it's this huge sign of weakness. But before you judge me consider:

Jesus wept.

But what I see in your post is strength. When one knows they have a weakness that knowledge is strength that can be used to control our weaknesses.
We all have weaknesses but we are only truly weak when we do not recognize them.
Knowledge is power.

 

[plummyy]

You just said that people use them to make fun of themselves, so how are they "trying to insult" people while doing so? The only people they would be trying to insult is themselves. Again, you are presuming intent that just isn't there, from you own description.

Are you kidding me?? Seriously??

When someone makes fun of themselves by calling themselves something, anyone who actually (clinically) identifies with that word, is being used as the joke. When people make themselves into a joke by drawing on a uni-brow with black pen, zits, or freckles, to create an "ugly" face, they're literally referring to aspects of real faces that they think are ugly. When someone calls themselves "schizo" or "OCD" by means of making fun of themselves with those words, they're literally referring to aspects of a real person's identity that they think are "funny" enough to use on themselves. I honestly have no idea how you cannot understand that.

 

[plummyy]

Ow please.... black people use that word more then anyone.


What if I, as an atheist, decide that it is "disrespectfull" to hear about gods and about how I am going to hell and how I even deserve to go to hell?

Will you support my "sensitivity" and tell theists to shut up out of "respect" for me?

Incidently, I AM greatly insulted by theists who believe I will go to hell and, by worshipping the one who will supposedly send me there, they even SUPPORT it.
This means that these people SUPPORT the idea of me being TORTURED for eternity.

You are in here complaining about people using the word "crazy" or "spastic" in rather harmless ways.

Think about it for a second.

1. It's called reclaiming a word.
2. You're saying that someone cannot be mistreated if they have ever mistreated others. Sorry, no. Try again. I wish it worked like that, but it's not a karma issue. It's very cruel the things I have been told by some "believers", but that does not change the fact that they can still experience discrimination---and that includes discrimination against their mental illness. And I wonder, because I am an Atheist (I know my profile says Agnostic) as well, does that mean that I am more able to feel saddened by people making joke of my mental illness, or equally as unreasonable (in your eyes) as the Christians on this thread?

 

[Ada Lovelace]

No, intent is not sufficient.

Where there is lack of awareness of the hurtful nature of such words, then intent can be innocent, but the harm caused is just as real as if the words were intended as abuse. If someone punches me by accident their intent may be innocent, but the harm is the same.

To focus on intent means that the target is ignored and any effect on them is minimised or ignored completely. This is not sufficient.

What matters is not whether harm is intended, but whether harm is possible. If we recognise that harm is possible we can take steps to change our attitude and our language. By doing this we protect other innocent people from the harm we could cause them.

Once again, I am at a loss to understand why any Christians would argue against this one.

I wrote that intent is what is the most significant, not that it alone is all that is relevant; please do not distort my words. To use your punch analogy, if someone were to accidentally punch another in a jostling crowd or such, and upon realizing the infliction of pain guffawed or shrugged at the hurt person, that would be callous and indifferent. It would be wrong. If the accidental puncher apologized sincerely and explained it was entirely in error, and assisted the person to be the best of her ability then some grace should be extended. To compare an inadvertent punch to what happened to the girl on YouTube I referenced in my previous post who innocently used the word "spaz" to describe herself, it would be like an angry mob screaming at the accidental puncher that she was an idiotic abuser not fit for society, and chasing her away and making her afraid to ever return there. The teen on YouTube was bullied relentlessly and deliberately called cruel insults all because she had no idea that in the UK "spaz" was offensive. How much kinder and more sensible it would have been to simply and softly tell her that the word had a different meaning beyond what she understood it to be, that it was considered to be derogatory, and to advise her not to use it again. Hurting her purposefully for her accidentally hurting others is unfair. Other people who've used words that unintentionally caused offense have also received completely disproportional outrage and ire in response.

What I'm advocating for is that everyone extend some grace to one another, which is most certainly a Christian tenet. I'm incredibly sensitive and attuned to the feelings of others and believe in kindness, but I think we also need to be reasonable and just.

 

[seekingsolace]

The notion of supposedly being considerate to others is what very often drives repression of particular speech.

Repression of being rude and inconsiderate to others? I hope you evaluate what you are suggesting.

You mean some of those affected - again, I have mental illness, I don't get offended by these terms. And frankly, I wish the people who do get offended by these terms who happen to be mentally ill would stop trying to put me in their box.

When did this begin to be about you? Good for you that offence doesn't come easy to you. Yet neither of us is a spokesperson for the population. As we (should) know, it offends a great deal of people. There is a huge spectrum of mental illnesses, each varying in severity. It is a disservice to true sufferers when the term is used carelessly.

I'm not entirely sure what box you are referring to, unless it's a society induced one.

Coddling people isn't helping them, nor is creating a climate where people can't say anything for fear of offending someone. Especially not when this is done hypocritically.

How is showing a bit of compassion coddling? Suggesting otherwise is quite offensive. Can you not see that in effect you are pushing this stigma on wards 'they are too sensitive' 'it's their problem' 'snap out of it' and so on. Not every person is privileged to have stability in their life.

(Again, I find the "we must watch what we say because people might get offended" routine offensive, but that won't stop any of you lot from yammering on about it, will it? There is no consistency here.)

If you find kindness offensive, then I am truly saddened. No person is forcing you to participate in this thread, what do you expect?

 

[Albion]

This issue has arisen in another thread, but I thought it worth opening to general discussion.

It is no longer acceptable to use language of physical disability as terms of general abuse, words such as 'crip', 'spastic', 'mong' etc. I am old enough to remember all of these used in the playground with no real awareness of what they denoted, and I am pleased that with the passing of time we have all moved on somewhat from such nastiness.

However, much nastiness remains, specifically in relation to mental health. How many of us casually say, 'You are crazy!', 'He is mental!', 'You are out of your mind!' 'She is psycho!'

Do we even care that such language can hurt people with mental health conditions?

Do we care that there is no way at all to counter such accusations because any attempt to do so will feed the animosity which prompted the comment in the first place?

Does it matter?

I have a complex mental health condition. I am also one of the sanest people you will ever meet, and not exactly lacking in intelligence. I would really like to make people aware of this matter, and encourage a shade more thought.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/18/69/12/1869120efd58b307284e2951bfc8b864.jpg

If I could somehow get people to stop talking that way around here, I'd be thrilled.

However, it's impossible so long as there are political threads on CF, Democrats who want to be as ugly as possible to Donald Trump, and safe havens for people who are militantly against anyone who has any religious beliefs.