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Women ordained in the Baptist Church

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by leytonstones, Aug 27, 2006.

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  1. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    It is Biblical. Those verses are from the Bible.

    And you said "Deacons are leaders that hold no power. They are servant leaders". Servant leaders are still leaders.

    Then why would Paul write "that you may receive her in the Lord as befits the saints"? Or "for they have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers"?
    Ringo
     
  2. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    If it looks like a pastor, feels like a pastor and smells like a pastor.... well, you know the rest.
    Ringo
     
  3. JacobHall86

    JacobHall86 Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

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    Doenst make it right. BTW, Pastors are Men, so a woman cant look liek one.

    Look at Joel Osteen.
     
  4. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    That's bad logic. One for FSTDT.
    Ringo
     
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  5. Flynmonkie

    Flynmonkie The First Official FrankenMonkie ;)

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    So the Bible was written to men, and women are just supposed to follow men around because God only bestows the work of the Holy Spirit through them and them alone? Is that what you really want to say to those seeking? Is this the image that God really wishes for us to project as Christians in sharing the gospel of Christ?

    No wonder women have to write books to explain what “pastors” mean?!?! Seriously though, Beth Moore had been recommended to me by a man whom had learned much from her understanding and explanation of application of scriptures, especially in what we should be worried abut first and foremost – working out our own salvation, as Paul instructs.

    The truth is the truth no matter how delivered, to say something different is to quench the Spirit and THAT IS clearly against scripture.

    A leader is one whom has an understanding of that truth and can share it. Every one of us has been given this ability in some way or level or another. I know women that could run circles around some men in spiritual discernment, and vice versa. There is no head of the Church but Christ..
     
  6. arunma

    arunma Flaming Calvinist

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    Agreed. But this begs the question: who is to blame? Is it the women, or the men? See this Scripture.
    Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to her for judgment. She sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali and said to him, "Has not the LORD, the God of Israel, commanded you, 'Go, gather your men at Mount Tabor, taking 10,000 from the people of Naphtali and the people of Zebulun. And I will draw out Sisera, the general of Jabin's army, to meet you by the river Kishon with his chariots and his troops, and I will give him into your hand'?" Barak said to her, "If you will go with me, I will go, but if you will not go with me, I will not go." And she said, "I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the road on which you are going will not lead to your glory, for the LORD will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman." Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kedesh. (Judges 4:4-9)
    It seems to me that the sin belongs to the men when there is such a shortage of leaders that a woman must take the role that God has designed specifically for a man.
     
  7. Ringo84

    Ringo84 Separation of Church and State expert

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    Men should be blamed for situations when women have to take over? How do you figure that, Arunma?
    Ringo
     
  8. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    Hi Sis, this is kinda off-topic but haven't seen you around in a while and just wanted to say "God Bless Ya." And that I'm not gonna debate with you. I know how you feel and you know how I feel. But anywho...

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
  9. Flynmonkie

    Flynmonkie The First Official FrankenMonkie ;)

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    :wave: Nice to see you DD! Hope all is well! I've been busy with the evolution/creationism issues in a "secular world" sort of thing...--> UGH!

    Awwwhh, Debate is fun! What a party pooper you are! ;) Remember, iron sharpening iron! Christian liberty is a wonderful thing. :)
     
  10. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    I know, I know.


    Anywho, God Bless ya Sis, and hope the studies are going well.

    God Bless.

    Till all are one.
     
  11. JacobHall86

    JacobHall86 Calvin is 500 years old, Calvinism is eternal!

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    Your post is full of emotional appeals. You are better than that, dont use emotional appeals against me.

    Second of All, Simply because a woman can do the job does not mean she should eb allowed to and be ordained.

    What in the world gave you the idea that we are to Cater to those seeking and the Lost? THe church is not about catering to waht people want, its about what they need.
     
  12. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

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    Excellent point. The men failing to lead will certainly be judged against them. Do you think this may be a reason why the Bible (in Romans) blames Adam for sin entering the world?

    BTW, the Strongs definition (original Greek) of the word deacon is basically a male or female servant and uses a waiter as an example. It is a servant with no real leadership or power in the spiritual leading of the church. In modern churches some do elect or appoint deacons and give them spiritual roles and leadership but biblically that was reserved for men as elders. They can lead in the physical, for example we have a finance deacon and a building and grounds deacon in our home church.
     
  13. RajunCajun86

    RajunCajun86 New Member

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    agreed
    (personally) that is not the role of deacons
    deacons - servants to the body (not descision-makers)
    *back to topic*
     
  14. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

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    Our deacons actually don't make any decisions. They just ensure things get done, all decisions are made in our quarterly business meetings by vote of the membership. They do bring concerns and options to the attention of the elders and the membership..for example, the parking lot has a drainage issue we can do A, B, or C...discussion and Q and A...vote or delay while more research is done. Deacons just do the leg work and allow the elders to focus on spiritual leadership and duties. At least in our church
     
  15. RajunCajun86

    RajunCajun86 New Member

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  16. Flynmonkie

    Flynmonkie The First Official FrankenMonkie ;)

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    Emotional? HA! As if I have the time or the inclination to worry about this, let alone be emotional. One thing I am fully faithful of, God has this under control. Patronizing me will not prompt me to "argue" with you. There is a difference between argument and debate and discussion. Just a reminder, arrogance and condescension are not something the bible teaches.

    You chose to view something, plainly in sight without spiritual discernment. It never ceases to amaze me how someone can look at something, see that it exists, yet claim it does not. That God would not do that, because it is not in the Bible. Then those of use that do study and see clearly it is in the Bible are accused of twisting scripture to suit. Not everything is in the Bible. But we can get a good idea of how to view things; there are some fundamental truths that should never be compromised. Namely for starters loving God, loving others, and sharing the gospel. The Holy Spirit being sexist is not part of that. There is nothing one can say any further to your shortsightedness. My thought to you would be to do as your told, search the scriptures daily to see if it is so, it is God, not I whom promises wisdom and knowledge liberally when someone is earnestly seeking.

    If truth be told, I worry about those whose hearts are telling them this is incorrect but continue to see others pushing this cultural mandate causing them confusion. I am here to tell them there are women that God uses clearly and it is not sinful, the men around them are not sinful, they are good Christians also all learning and growing working on their own salvation as they are instructed as Spiritual Heirs.

    Surveying the situation, the more men continue to not search for the truth, and continue this pattern, women are outnumbering you, and I see a grand clash in the church, which has already begun. Not that I agree with it, but the truth comes to light in many ways. Part of the responsibility-bestowed men is to lift their wives up (and vice versa). The responsibility given to Christians is to lift each other up. There is no variation to that truth. We are spiritual equals there is but one leader - God. Christ heads the church. You men need to open your eyes and step up to the plate too.
     
  17. Flynmonkie

    Flynmonkie The First Official FrankenMonkie ;)

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    We are ALL to blame. There is no one righteous - not one of us. Sin is not just a male or female issue; it is an issue all Christians deal with in the same manner and for the same reasons. This is each of our responsibility in our Christian walks. God designed a system for those whom are learning, I can agree, but there is an aim, a goal that each of us as Christians should be seeking. Spiritual Equality as Heirs in Christ. I do not believe God expects us to fall into roles outside of this. If you have been called to fall into this mandate, so be it, however, for those of us that have not been called to remain in that mandate, we are no less Christians.. Striving to view each other as spiritually equal, striving to serve other Christians no matter the sex - is good not negative. We are supposed to all aim for this goal together -- I cannot imagine how one could believe anything differently other than to think they have not truly read and prayed over scripture?

    I will state as I have before, I have absolutely no desire to become a pastor. This has nothing to do with my biblical perspective on leadership.

    What happens when we grow? We learn a better way, just as one first learns to cry, crawl, walk, sprint then eventually run. There are stages of learning. But the goal should always remain the same. Somewhere that goal is being lost in the stages of growth. I believe it is weighting Christians down as they find complacency in a stage believing they have "arrived." Even naming it a mandate. Some do remain in that stage, while others move on in growth. I cannot know the mind of God in these matters other than He is in control and obviously there is a reason others do not understand. Either they are blocking the truth for selfish reason, which is much what I did when I believed this, or could be a combination that those have not learned to move beyond this stage of complacency, or found an understanding of servitude so God has left them there. I do not know, and I am not arrogant to assume I do. But what I do know is that we are all to be heirs together - that is the goal, this cannot be denied. Everything else seems cultural and worldly.
     
  18. mlqurgw

    mlqurgw New Member

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    I am reluctant to get into this discussion again but I feel that I must make this comment; there are some very plain statements in the Scripture concerning the issue so what do we do with them? I have heard and read most of the arguments on both sides and have to honestly say that the opposing view either seeks to work some way around them or ignore them altogether.
     
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  19. Flynmonkie

    Flynmonkie The First Official FrankenMonkie ;)

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    I sort of feel the opposite is true, and this is coming from years of believing the "Man heads the house no matter" attitude that has been drilled in me to the point of spiritual confusion.

    What do we do with them (scripture)? Discern them along with other more pressing scriptural "goals", discern scripture paying close attention to the time it was written, and to whom and why. Look around you and know that when something is good, it is from God. Sure Satan masquerades evil with good, however I see nothing evil about a child of God, no matter their sex sharing, leading with the gospel. To believe contrary would be to me degrading another Christian and downplaying the truth.

    Let me ask you a question, do you believe mans salvation, justification, spiritual discernment, and growth [lifelong sanctification] are different than a woman’s as a faithful Christian? Are women supposed to share the gospel; they should leave it to men? If so, how.? (with scripture)?

    If not, then why wouldn't a woman have the capability of leading, of teaching the truth?

    By all means I will again address each piece of scripture with my understanding through scripture. I am always listening and work towards making sure what I believe is in line with scripture, as well as possible. If I can be shown that of course I will change my thought. That is what happened in this matter, I continue to pray and ask God if I am missing something, but the only answers I receive are supportive to this thought. But I cannot disregard scripture relative to our goal to uphold other that clearly would not. There is a better answer.
     
  20. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

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    No one is saying women are less saved or less used by God, only that it is clear that they are not to teach men or have authority over men. If you look at all the Scriptures you will see that to be consistent with Gods design of government..starting at home and going from there...starting in Genisis
     
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