WoF verses Non-WoF

[Simon Peter]

Lol. I quoted the entire box of my words and your words. One it provides context and two as someone said its not worth it to cut out and format my quote in a way that is most pleasing to you. Talk about nit picking.

Are you serious? You really think that's nit picking?

How about this:

I think WoF is a cult.

(Charityagape did not really say this, I'm just trying to make a point)

Or would you prefer I started 'nit picking' and only quoted what you actually said?

We do live in a country where we have that right. And that's good. However, I'm not trying to critic your doctrine or what you teach. That's not my job. I do criticize your right to think that it's your job to critic the doctrines and teachings of others. And yes we both have that right.

I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to follow your reasoning. I think you are agreeing with me that I do have the right to criticise Hagin, Copeland etc... Perhaps you should rewrite that paragraph.

peace,
Simon

 

[charityagape]

threat/THret/
Noun: A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not...: "


Someone may or may not find this statement disturbing. But objectively whether you like what he said or not, it is not a statement of his intent to inflict pain, injury, damage, etc.

It's a statement of his belief that the people who died of cancer probably died because they opposed the Faith Bunch.

You could say his belief is mistaken, you could even say it was stupid. That would be a ligitmate opinion. But to say its a threat is to misunderstand the definition of threat.

 

[charityagape]

Are you serious? You really think that's nit picking?

How about this:


(Charityagape did not really say this, I'm just trying to make a point)

Or would you prefer I started 'nit picking' and only quoted what you actually said?





I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to follow your reasoning. I think you are agreeing with me that I do have the right to criticise Hagin, Copeland etc... Perhaps you should rewrite that paragraph.

peace,
Simon

I DID NOT rewrite anything you said snd I DID NOT add or subtract your words. I included the ENTIRE conversation of your words and mine. For you to imply thst I changed your words is either ignorance on your part or something more unsavory.


As for rewriting my paragraph....it's not like it would matter to your understanding if I rewrote it a hundred times.

You're kind of demanding on your standards of forum posts that you deem acceptable, lighten up. It's a forum, it's really not thst important.

However thst top part where you implied thst I changed your words. That's important ...

 

[Simon Peter]

threat/THret/
Noun: A statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not...: "


Someone may or may not find this statement disturbing. But objectively whether you like what he said or not, it is not a statement of his intent to inflict pain, injury, damage, etc.

It's a statement of his belief that the people who died of cancer probably died because they opposed the Faith Bunch.

You could say his belief is mistaken, you could even say it was stupid. That would be a ligitmate opinion. But to say its a threat is to misunderstand the definition of threat.

LOL...This reminds me of the burly Italian-American from Brooklyn who told the judge, "but your honour, I didn't threaten him, I just told him that everyone who criticised my family ended up swimming with the fishes or with broken legs. I didn't go near them myself, I was just stating the facts"

I DID NOT rewrite anything you said snd I DID NOT add or subtract your words. I included the ENTIRE conversation of your words and mine. For you to imply thst I changed your words is either ignorance on your part or something more unsavory.

I'm just saying you should not add words to my quotes. I'm not saying it was deliberate.

In fact I'd like it if you'd go back and edit your post and remove your words that you have me saying. Thanks

As for rewriting my paragraph....it's not like it would matter to your understanding if I rewrote it a hundred times.

You're kind of demanding on your standards of forum posts that you deem acceptable, lighten up. It's a forum, it's really not thst important.

I was just trying to help you out, by telling you I don't think I understood it. I don't care if you change that paragraph or not.

peace,
Simon

 

[Yahu]

But you haven't answered my question. Not directly. Does a person (in this case a WOF minister) have the ability to speak a curse and have that curse come to pass under the power of Satan? Yes or no.

But yes or no. Can a person use the power of Satan (even if they think they are using the power of God) to curse a person without cause and have that curse come to pass.

19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

IMO, absolutely yes! We have all authority over the forces of the enemy. There is power of life and death in the tongue. It is in how we use that power that is the issue. We are not forbidden from using that authority but we need to be careful how we use it. When using that power under our own will as opposed to under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it is the enemy that will be the power behind those words whether for blessings or curses.

I have done this myself. I sent back all spirits sent by witchcraft in my life back on the sender 7x according to my understanding of scripture. It is debatable whether that was under the Holy Spirit's guidance or not. The outcome was that the coven got actual proof the power of Yah and authority of a Christian was greater then their own power in witchcraft. It lead to many of them getting saved as a result. You have to judge the fruit.

The actual situation was they had blessed me in the name of their goddess. I stated I wanted neither blessings or curses in the name of their goddess so I sent all witchcraft back in the name of Yeshua 7x. I was actually thanked by those sending the blessings. I didn't know that some of them had been sending curses behind my back, the Holy Spirit did. Now that was me using the spiritual authority granted to me as a believer to actually send the forces of the enemy. I was NOT initiating any attack but rebounding the spirits sent into my life.

Now I see any prayer or SPEAKING that authority OUTSIDE the will of Yah as the same thing. It can be sending enemy spiritual forces against another's life. It all comes down to what was the driving force behind the words spoken. If those word were spoken to gain personal power over the situation or person for the speaker's benefit, it would be witchcraft IMO. A curse by a WoF minister could fall into this situation. The enemy would be glad to carry out those commands in harming another Christian.

That is my understanding of the situation. Now the Old Testament prophets are full of examples of curses sent against the followers of the pagan gods.

WoF teaches to use that authority but it can be done for personal gain and glory or under the leading of the Holy Spirit? That is the problem. What spirit is driving the tongue? Is it a spirit of greed? Is it a spirit of control? Or is it the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit can and will command the forces of the enemy but the fruit should be in building the kingdom and carrying out the will of Yah and for glorifying the Father, not the speaker.

Job 26:2 How hast thou helped him that is without power? how savest thou the arm that hath no strength?
3 How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom? and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?
4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?

In my case at WoF bible college when I sensed it was NOT of the Holy Spirit, I countered and broke off all witchcraft that was spoken from the pulpit over the students lives. I specifically broke off anything that Yah considered witchcraft, not anything that was of Him. If it wasn't witchcraft, it should not have had any effect.

I STRONGLY recommend every Christian should break off all spiritual influences that are not sent by the will of Yah in the name of Yeshua. It may break off many blessings sent by the enemy. Do you really want to be blessed by enemy forces when they will extract consequences in some other way? For example, they may bring financial blessing but hinder your spiritual growth in the process.

 

[charityagape]

LOL...This reminds me of the burly Italian-American from Brooklyn who told the judge, "but your honour, I didn't threaten him, I just told him that everyone who criticised my family ended up swimming with the fishes or with broken legs. I didn't go near them myself, I was just stating the facts"

Well the Italian guy KNEW that he could tell his family to do the crime. But I doubt you think that Kenneth Copelsnd can tell God to strike people with cancer.





I'm just saying you should not add words to my quotes. I'm not saying it was deliberate.

It was deliberate. I deliberately included all parts of the conversation. And I deliberately did not go edit out the things I said because I don't think this type of communication warrants my time and effort to have things perfectly edited and in a nice neat presentation. I'm talking to YOU and if you can't read that post and figure out what you said and what I said...well wow. Short term memory loss maybe? Just changing the colors on this thing (on my phone btw, not an easy task) to help you remember what you said versus whst I said is more effort than I want to put into this afternoons entertainment. Do you always lead off the subject into long discussions on post format and editing?


In fact I'd like it if you'd go back and edit your post and remove your words that you have me saying. Thanks

Ha! That's hilarious. I don't have you saying anything. You may accuse me of lazy posting, cause that's certainly true. But I font have you saying anything. I couldn't mske up the gems you come up with. So no I won't be formatting my posts to your satisfaction.



I was just trying to help you out, by telling you I don't think I understood it. I don't care if you change that paragraph or not.

peace,
Simon

Good you don't care. Because I'd hate for you to be invested in something that's not going to happen.

Oh well it's been entertaining.

 

[charityagape]

Btw that whole Italian/mafia thing was in incredibly poor taste and bringing as I have some Italian heritage and could be offended at the stereotypical association with italians and the mob...well maybe you could go back and change your post.

 

[probinson]

But to say its a threat is to misunderstand the definition of threat.

Words have little meaning to some people. Fluid definitions, changing as fits the agenda, are common here.

BTW, it's good to see you again!

 

[Yahu]

To clarify I don't believe a person can be cursed without cause. I do believ people can be cursed.

Well if they have no sin in their lives, the enemy doesn't have grounds to carry out the curse. The problem is we all have some sin in our lives that the Holy Spirit hasn't rooted out. No one but Yeshua has attained perfection yet and we won't until we have our glorified bodies in the kingdom and the forces of hell have been dealt with.

Personally I don't have a problem with speaking curses. Yes it is better to bless then to curse but Yeshua does curse. For example in Rev 2, Yeshua speaks a curse over Jezebels in the churches and her followers. Her followers are cursed with great tribulation in their lives. The purpose of that curse is to get people to examine the cause of the curse and repent of their error.

How many WoF followers would SPEAK there way past that tribulation without rooting out the cause and repenting?

 

[dkbwarrior]

How many WoF followers would SPEAK there way past that tribulation without rooting out the cause and repenting?

I'm not certain. How many non-denominational followers would? How many Baptists?

Peace...

 

[Yahu]

I'm not certain. How many non-denominational followers would? How many Baptists?

Peace...

How many Baptists or any other denominations are taught to SPEAK over the problems in their life? None that I am aware of.

 

[dkbwarrior]

How many Baptists or any other denominations are taught to SPEAK over the problems in their life? None that I am aware of.

Point taken. They would simply suffer through the tribulation accepting it as the will of God for them, without dealing with or repenting of the root causes. Six of one half dozen of another.

Peace...

 

[Simon Peter]

Good you don't care. Because I'd hate for you to be invested in something that's not going to happen.

That's fine. If that's the rules you want to play by.

Oh well it's been entertaining

Btw that whole Italian/mafia thing was in incredibly poor taste and bringing as I have some Italian heritage and could be offended at the stereotypical association with italians and the mob...well maybe you could go back and change your post.

Sorry, I'd hate for you to be invested in something that's not going to happen. I don't care for baseless political correctness.

Well the Italian guy KNEW that he could tell his family to do the crime. But I doubt you think that Kenneth Copelsnd can tell God to strike people with cancer.

I have no idea if the Italian guy told his family to do anything or not, I don't think he'd even need to.


I'm just saying you should not add words to my quotes. I'm not saying it was deliberate.

It was deliberate. I deliberately included all parts of the conversation. And I deliberately did not go edit out the things I said because I don't think this type of communication warrants my time and effort to have things perfectly edited and in a nice neat presentation. I'm talking to YOU and if you can't read that post and figure out what you said and what I said...well wow. Short term memory loss maybe? Just changing the colors on this thing (on my phone btw, not an easy task) to help you remember what you said versus whst I said is more effort than I want to put into this afternoons entertainment. Do you always lead off the subject into long discussions on post format and editing?


In fact I'd like it if you'd go back and edit your post and remove your words that you have me saying. Thanks

Ha! That's hilarious. I don't have you saying anything. You may accuse me of lazy posting, cause that's certainly true. But I font have you saying anything. I couldn't mske up the gems you come up with. So no I won't be formatting my posts to your satisfaction.

peace,
Simon

 

[sk8Joyful]

I know how God created us to HEAL and we can empower same in one another, so
people can ENJOY this of God's blessings to continue...
praising our Creator, Daddy, Savior, Teacher, Best-friend, & Resurrector.

Wof response? - "No, helping people heal is Witchcraft".
But
who (as also quoted #200 above) actually practices horrendous witchcraft: themselves.

Point taken.
They would simply
suffer through the tribulation
accepting it as the will of God for them,
without dealing with or repenting of the root causes.

THAT ^^^ denial and refusal and nonsense is another reason
I will not attend, nor belong to man-made (baptist, catholic, etc) religions.
For verily, that sorry indoctrination is of the devil,
as summarily practiced by the medical establishment. Such rot IS the "opiate of the people"


So, I doubt seriously there's a CHURCH where I can fellowship with the Like-minded...
to wit: Helping according to JESUS #140+#141 each other Heal....

 

[Yahu]

Point taken. They would simply suffer through the tribulation accepting it as the will of God for them, without dealing with or repenting of the root causes. Six of one half dozen of another.

Peace...

Actually in the case of my sister-in-law, she did repent of bitterness and anger after a word of knowledge then the healing for colon cancer did come.

So in that case she did deal with the underlying problem. Who would be better off, the one that SPEAKS their way into healing or the one that repents of the root cause then gets the healing? Without getting rid of the root cause, the illness can come back repeatedly.

 

[Yahu]

IMO, one of the major differences between WoF verses Non-WoF is the sequences of events taught by core doctrines.

WoF as I understand it is to find a promise of Yah and speak it over your life until you get it. Or in the case of healing, claiming that healing until you get it.

In Non-WoF you look at a problem as way to expose error in your life, solve that error so you don't need to speak the blessing, it comes as a result of getting in right standing with Yah. Once you deal with the root cause, then speak with the spiritual authority over those things causing the problems.

WoF followers can speak for blessings they don't qualify for and bypass the correction of the Father and confuse His chastisement as a Satanic attack.

 

[Simon Peter]

IMO, one of the major differences between WoF verses Non-WoF is the sequences of events taught by core doctrines.

WoF as I understand it is to find a promise of Yah and speak it over your life until you get it. Or in the case of healing, claiming that healing until you get it.

In Non-WoF you look at a problem as way to expose error in your life, solve that error so you don't need to speak the blessing, it comes as a result of getting in right standing with Yah. Once you deal with the root cause, then speak with the spiritual authority over those things causing the problems.

WoF followers can speak for blessings they don't qualify for and bypass the correction of the Father and confuse His chastisement as a Satanic attack.

Good post.

peace,
Simon

 

[sk8Joyful]

Actually in the case of my sister-in-law, she did repent of bitterness and anger
after a word of knowledge, then the healing for colon cancer did come.
So in that case she did deal with the underlying problem.

Who would be better off, the one that SPEAKS their way into healing or
the one that repents of the root cause then gets the healing?
Without getting rid of the root cause, the illness can come back repeatedly.

EXACTLY.
And why I responded in this post: #143 to wit:

Aah yes!, as always the TRUTH is revealed: This woman
"AFTER of bitterness and anger she repented, from colon cancer healed"
iow
any of her eating played 2nd. fiddle, because harmful cancering emotions she allowed being healed

I tell you, the truth stands the test of Time, and always is PROVEN, as you just said. Amen, and

 

[dkbwarrior]

Actually in the case of my sister-in-law, she did repent of bitterness and anger after a word of knowledge then the healing for colon cancer did come.

So in that case she did deal with the underlying problem. Who would be better off, the one that SPEAKS their way into healing or the one that repents of the root cause then gets the healing? Without getting rid of the root cause, the illness can come back repeatedly.

Thats kinda apples and oranges isn't it?

That would be like saying, what is better, the one the speaks their way into healing and repents of the root cause, or the person that suffers through and doesn't repent?

An apples and apples comparison would be comparing one who speaks their way into healing and repents, to one that suffers through the tribulation and repents.

Or, one who speaks their way into healing and doesn't repent, and one who suffers through their tribulation and doesn't repent.

In either case, I would rather be healed than sick. Not to mention, the child of God does not need tribulation and sickness to teach them anything, that is what we have the Word and the Spirit for. Now, if they fail to listen to the Word and the Spirit, then tribulation may well come.

But keep in mind, that tribulation will come anyways, because we live in a fallen world. You seem to be implying that God brings the curse to teach His children. This I disagree with strongly. It was Adams sin that brought in the curse, and satan was happy to oblige. It is satan that had the power of death, not God.

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
-John 10:10

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
-James 1:13-17

Peace...

 

[dkbwarrior]

Wof response? - "No, helping people heal is Witchcraft".

I have been in WOF for 15 years. Never heard that from anyone, anywhere. Please provide a reference for this...

Peace...