WHY THERE ARE NOT NOR CAN BE APOSTLES TODAY !!

[Dan Perez]

Acts 1:16- 22 explains why there are no so-called apostles today !

#1 In verse 21 Which HAVE COMPANIED // SYERCHOMEI is in the PAST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , PARTICIPLE

#2 WITH US // HEMIN , is a Personal Possessive Pronoun , in the Dative Case , in the Plural

#3 ALL // PAS , is in the Dative Case

#4 The Time // CHRONONS , in the Dative Case , in the Singular .

# 5 LORD // KYRIOS , in the Nominative Case , in the Singular

# 6 TO BE A WITNESS // MARTYS is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , Singular , means that there where not many who saw


#7 OF HIS // AUTOS , Personal Possessive Pronoun in the GENITIVE CASE , Singular .

#8 RESURRECTION // ANASTASIS is in the Genitive case , in the SINGULAR

# 9The next Greek is BAPTISMA of John , just check the Greek text and it is there , BAPTISMA , not baptism .

#10 TO BE A WITNESS // MARTYS , is in the Accusative Case , here means LIMITED to those who were among the disciples

# 11 US // HEMIN is a Personal Possessive Pronoun in the Dative case and in the Plural

To be and APOSTLE to today , all had to be with Christ in the FLESH and BE AN EYE WITNESS of the RESURRECTION , PERIOD

dan p

 

[hislegacy]

To be and APOSTLE to today , all had to be with Christ in the FLESH and BE AN EYE WITNESS of the RESURRECTION , PERIOD

Paul was NOT with Christ in the FLESH nor was he an EYEWITNESS of the RESURRECTION. PERIOD

That is the first flaw in the OP supposition.

 

[RandyPNW]

I think the passage is referring back to the ministry of the Apostles who had worked in Jesus' earthly ministry and had begun to carry on after his death. This does not necessarily preclude future Apostles. It just depends on how you might define "apostles?"

But your point still stands. Jesus assigned only 12 apostles to witness to Israel. Those who initially established the Gospel as a doctrine did so in the Early Church by writing the Scriptures. This is our foundation.

On the other hand, Christians came along later, in the form of the Church Fathers, and continued to contribute to this "foundation." I'm not sure we'd call them "apostles" but they certainly were high leaders in the Church!

Beyond the initial 12 Apostles, Jesus, from heaven, appointed Paul and Silas to be apostles to bring the Gospel to the Gentile world. I'm not sure they were anointed for service in an official ecclesiastical office of "apostle," but Paul interpreted his calling as "apostolic."

Actually, both the 12 Apostles and Paul and Silas were all called, by Jesus, to reach out to the whole world. It's just that the 12 were supposed to start their ministry in Jerusalem and in Israel.

What I see is that Paul identified these early Apostles as the "foundation" for the Church. Does the foundation have to be laid again? Not really. Jesus' work is the eternal foundation for the Church. And what the Apostles said and wrote about that work can't really be improved on.

On the other hand, throughout history there has been need for reformation and revival, just as Israel in her history had to rebuild the temple after desolation and exile. Then it is God has to choose men to lay the foundation for these revivals.

And I think He has done that. So we're not far apart on this, if at all?

 

[Dan Perez]

I think the passage is referring back to the ministry of the Apostles who had worked in Jesus' earthly ministry and had begun to carry on after his death. This does not necessarily preclude future Apostles. It just depends on how you might define "apostles?"

But your point still stands. Jesus assigned only 12 apostles to witness to Israel. Those who initially established the Gospel as a doctrine did so in the Early Church by writing the Scriptures. This is our foundation.

On the other hand, Christians came along later, in the form of the Church Fathers, and continued to contribute to this "foundation." I'm not sure we'd call them "apostles" but they certainly were high leaders in the Church!

Beyond the initial 12 Apostles, Jesus, from heaven, appointed Paul and Silas to be apostles to bring the Gospel to the Gentile world. I'm not sure they were anointed for service in an official ecclesiastical office of "apostle," but Paul interpreted his calling as "apostolic."

Actually, both the 12 Apostles and Paul and Silas were all called, by Jesus, to reach out to the whole world. It's just that the 12 were supposed to start their ministry in Jerusalem and in Israel.

What I see is that Paul identified these early Apostles as the "foundation" for the Church. Does the foundation have to be laid again? Not really. Jesus' work is the eternal foundation for the Church. And what the Apostles said and wrote about that work can't really be improved on.

On the other hand, throughout history there has been need for reformation and revival, just as Israel in her history had to rebuild the temple after desolation and exile. Then it is God has to choose men to lay the foundation for these revivals.

And I think He has done that. So we're not far apart on this, if at all?

# 1 Christ appointed apostles for Israel that are to sit on 12 thrones judging Israel .

#2 In Eph 4:11 Christ has given indeed the Apostles , , and the Prophets , and Evangelists and the Pastors and Teachers .

in verse 12 for the work of the ministry for the building up the BODY OF CHRIST .

#3 There has been much MIS-USE of the word APOSTLE as if the are in charge and of FAITH and all teaching .

# 3 The Greek word APOSTLES / APOSTOLOS just means Messenger .

dan p

 

[timothyu]

On the other hand, Christians came along later, in the form of the Church Fathers, and continued to contribute to this "foundation." I'm not sure we'd call them "apostles" but they certainly were high leaders in the Church!

Reminds me of politicians today riding on the coattails of Founding Fathers. They through their own input no longer resemble what they claim to represent.

 

[Dan Perez]

Paul was NOT with Christ in the FLESH nor was he an EYEWITNESS of the RESURRECTION. PERIOD

That is the first flaw in the OP supposition.

So , what does witness then means ?

#1 Who was there in the TOMB when Christ came back to life ?

#2 No one was there only angels were there .

# 3 They were Witnesses after his Resurrection !!

dan p

 

[hislegacy]

So , hat does witness then means ?

#1 Who as there in the TOMB when Christ came back to life ?

#2 No one was there were there none and only angels were there .

# 3 They were Witnesses after his Resurrection !!

dan p

The Apostle Paul wasn’t. He never met Jesus in the flesh.

 

[RandyPNW]

Reminds me of politicians today riding on the coattails of Founding Fathers. They through their own input no longer resemble what they claim to represent.

I wouldn't compare the Church Fathers with the Apostles. I don't think one group to be inferior to the other. But I do "like" your comment about the Politicians of Today who bear little resemblance to our original *American* Founding Fathers.

The Apostles were certainly as flawed as anybody else. But they had a tremendous advantage in the arena of doctrine and truth, having spent 3.5 years with the Lord himself. They were reliable witnesses to the foundation of the Church, namely Christ.

 

[RandyPNW]

# 1 Christ appointed apostles for Israel that are to sit on 12 thrones judging Israel .

This is just Israel, and Israel alone was God's People at the time Jesus said this. But in the future there would be many more nations of God, namely Christian nations.

I believe various Christian leaders will also sit on thrones judging their own countries. To judge them is to determine how they have responded to their and your Gospel message. I don't think it necessarily refers to political rule, but more, to determining who belongs in God's Kingdom. We represent Salvation and Judgment in our lives today. How people respond to our message will determine this for some people.

#2 In Eph 4:11 Christ has given indeed the Apostles , , and the Prophets , and Evangelists and the Pastors and Teachers .

in verse 12 for the work of the ministry for the building up the BODY OF CHRIST .

#3 There has been much MIS-USE of the word APOSTLE as if the are in charge and of FAITH and all teaching .

# 3 The Greek word APOSTLES / APOSTOLOS just means Messenger .

dan p

I agree. "Apostle" has been misused to represent some kind of political office, anointed of the Lord. In reality, it is a ministry that Jesus used to found the Church. They were "sent" to accomplish this mission, and not to be anointed "apostles."

That being said, they did have authority in their called ministries. People should not try to obstruct their legitimate ministries, nor any called ministry. However, they are still subject to the Church's own judgment and disciplines, if necessary.

 

[timothyu]

For anyone to be an apostle today, they would first have to step outside the institutions of man and join forces with the Kingdom as did the original 12. The direct opposite of what the institutional religion did 1700 years ago.

 

[NBB]

The bible says he constituted, apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelist etc
Why people draw the line at prophet and apostles, i don't get it.

 

[timothyu]

Not good for business?

 

[Cockcrow]

1 Corinthians 15:8 “And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.”

the bible says that Paul was the last Apostle, he was the last one to see Jesus. and a requirement for being an apostle was seeing Jesus.

 

[timothyu]

a requirement for being an apostle was seeing Jesus.

What of all those who claimed to have seen His apparition since?

 

[hislegacy]

1 Corinthians 15:8 “And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.”

the bible says that Paul was the last Apostle, he was the last one to see Jesus. and a requirement for being an apostle was seeing Jesus.

Paul is the one who wrote:

1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Then again in Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

Not one of the gifts (offices) have been taken away.

Acts 14: But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this,

Barnabus was not one of the 12, yet is called an Apostle

 

[Dan Perez]

What of all those who claimed to have seen His apparition since?

All the 12 apostles were chosen by Christ .

In the body of Christ gave in Eph 4:11 , and He gave , indeed the Apostles , and the Prophets , and the Evangelist , and the Pastors , and Teachers ,

dan p

 

[concretecamper]

Haha, someone got a Greek lexicon starter kit for Christmas

 

[hislegacy]

Haha, someone got a Greek lexicon starter kit for Christmas

How does this ad to the discussion? I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm not finding the value in mocking someone.

 

[concretecamper]

How does this ad to the discussion? I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm not finding the value in mocking someone.

It adds to the discussion because it shows how laughable it is that some think anyone can pick up a book and all of a sudden is a Greek and biblical scholar.

 

[timothyu]

Same applies to those who pick up a Bible.