Why the Trinity is a False Doctrine

[Fireinfolding]

My oh my! Only giving aid. Why can't you see.
Surely you must be able to see this one...

Deuteronomy 18:18 I [Father] will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my [Father John 8:28] words in his [Christ] mouth [Christ is the Fathers mouth]; and he [Christ] shall speak unto them all that I [Father] shall command him [Christ John 12:49-50].​

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment [Deuteronomy 18:18], what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting [His Word of life]: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak [Jesus is the Word of life, the Word became flesh].​

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me [Exodus 4:15], I speak these things.​

Exodus 4:15 And thou [Moses, Jesus] shalt speak unto him [Aaron, disciple], and put the words in his [disciple] mouth: and I [God the Father] will be with thy [Jesus] mouth [John 14:10], and with his [disciple] mouth [Matthew 10:20], and will teach you [Jesus John 8:28] what ye shall do. 16 And he [disciple] shall be thy [Jesus] spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he [disciple] shall be to thee [Jesus] a mouth, and thou [Jesus] shalt be to him [Jesus] as God.​

You mean you can't tell who is speaking to who in Isaiah 45? Who is the anointed one? Who anointed Jesus? You can't tell Who is saying this to who either?...

Isaiah 45:13
I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives​

Yeah exactly you got it.

Jesus said Moses wrote of me, and that is of him it is speaking of likewise it says that Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after (Heb 3:5)

Even as God hath
in these last days spoken unto us by his Son ...(Heb 1:2)

You can see how it is God going with ones mouth

Or is as a mouth is given which pertains to the Spirit of your Father which would speak in you as is shown here

God speaking by Christ says

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Here also in the same

Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Just as here

Ex 4:12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

Its the words of the wicked that lay in wait for blood, but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them

The Lord is upright, and its the mouth of the upright that delivers them Prov 12:6

As shown here

2 Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

Then there is one being given another mouth

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Lying spirits are placed in mouths also

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Theres others but the witnesses which show these things are so many, God by Moses and in Jesus Christ and with his apostles (and so forth).

 

[Strong in Him]

I have never said there is a trinity, there isn't.

I had a fairly long discussion with someone about an "unequal trinity". I thought it was you, but this thread has been cleaned up so I can't find the posts I am looking for - my apologies if it wasn't you.

But you did say that there are two gods, yet Scripture teaches there is only one.

 

[Goatee]

I really cannot understand someone coming out who states he is a Christian and then goes against Christian beliefs such as the Trinity? Is not a belief in the Trinity fundamental to being a Christian?

 

[nomadictheist]

My oh my! Only giving aid. Why can't you see.
Surely you must be able to see this one...

Deuteronomy 18:18 I [Father] will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my [Father John 8:28] words in his [Christ] mouth [Christ is the Fathers mouth]; and he [Christ] shall speak unto them all that I [Father] shall command him [Christ John 12:49-50].​

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment [Deuteronomy 18:18], what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting [His Word of life]: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak [Jesus is the Word of life, the Word became flesh].​

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me [Exodus 4:15], I speak these things.​

Exodus 4:15 And thou [Moses, Jesus] shalt speak unto him [Aaron, disciple], and put the words in his [disciple] mouth: and I [God the Father] will be with thy [Jesus] mouth [John 14:10], and with his [disciple] mouth [Matthew 10:20], and will teach you [Jesus John 8:28] what ye shall do. 16 And he [disciple] shall be thy [Jesus] spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he [disciple] shall be to thee [Jesus] a mouth, and thou [Jesus] shalt be to him [Jesus] as God.​

You mean you can't tell who is speaking to who in Isaiah 45? Who is the anointed one? Who anointed Jesus? You can't tell Who is saying this to who either?...

Isaiah 45:13
I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives​

This has nothing to do with the verse quoted earlier where God said that Moses would be as God to Aaron. Deuteronomy 18:18 is a clear prophecy about Jesus Christ, but that doesn't give you license to apply the name of Jesus Christ to any other writing of Moses that you think it fits with. There is no scriptural evidence for what you are saying to imply that Jesus is not God because of these verses, especially when the Bible elsewhere clearly says that He is God.

I don't care if you consider this a type of Jesus' relationship with His disciples. I have seen it used the same way and can see how it applies. The problem is when you try to use this type as evidence that Jesus is not who the scriptures, Jesus Himself, and the apostles say He is. A type is not a perfect representation, but something that we, with our finite comprehension, can use to grasp to some degree a larger truth.

Besides all the New Testament texts that say that Jesus is God, and texts like Isaiah where He is called the Mighty God, God also says He will not give His glory to any other (Isaiah 42:8). Yet we see that He gives it to His Son.

There are only three things that we can conclude from this:
Either (a) Jesus is God, as the New Testament plainly says and the Old Testament at least hints at
(b) God is a liar, or
(c) the New Testament, particularly any part of it that says that God gives Jesus His glory, is false

Since I believe on the name of the Lord Jesus, I believe that Jesus is, in fact, God, as the New Testament says and the Old Testament at least hints at.

 

[civilwarbuff]

But that is an awful cold love and clod charity, too.

He died for us....doesn't sound like cold love to me.

 

[nomadictheist]

My oh my! Only giving aid. Why can't you see.
Surely you must be able to see this one...

Deuteronomy 18:18 I [Father] will raise them up a Prophet [Christ] from among their brethren, like unto thee [Moses], and will put my [Father John 8:28] words in his [Christ] mouth [Christ is the Fathers mouth]; and he [Christ] shall speak unto them all that I [Father] shall command him [Christ John 12:49-50].​

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment [Deuteronomy 18:18], what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting [His Word of life]: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak [Jesus is the Word of life, the Word became flesh].​

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me [Exodus 4:15], I speak these things.​

Exodus 4:15 And thou [Moses, Jesus] shalt speak unto him [Aaron, disciple], and put the words in his [disciple] mouth: and I [God the Father] will be with thy [Jesus] mouth [John 14:10], and with his [disciple] mouth [Matthew 10:20], and will teach you [Jesus John 8:28] what ye shall do. 16 And he [disciple] shall be thy [Jesus] spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, that he [disciple] shall be to thee [Jesus] a mouth, and thou [Jesus] shalt be to him [Jesus] as God.​

You mean you can't tell who is speaking to who in Isaiah 45? Who is the anointed one? Who anointed Jesus? You can't tell Who is saying this to who either?...

Isaiah 45:13
I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives​

Again, just for clarity's sake...

I am not arguing that we cannot see Moses' relationship with Aaron as a type for God's relationship to Jesus, or even Jesus to His disciples. I am arguing that we cannot use this "type" to contradict other scriptures that say Jesus is God.

Neither am I arguing against the Mosaic prophecies concerning Christ. I believe that Jesus, in humility, spoke only the words His Father gave Him, as He said. This does not indicate that Jesus is a lesser being, else what evidence would this be of His humility? If Jesus were a lesser being than God, then becoming obedient would not be "humbling Himself" but a simple requirement. No angel is said to "humble himself" when he obeys the Lord.

What I am arguing against is the philosophy that "the word/Logos" became the sun, moon, stars, etc., and that when the apostle John says the Word was God and goes on, so that there's no doubt about it, to explain that all things were created through Him, and without Him not even one thing was created that was created, he somehow meant that the Word was an expression of God's thoughts and not actually God. That is what I am arguing against, and the prophesies concerning Jesus, the Messiah, in the Old Testament, be it the prophecies given to Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos, Hosea, or any of the other prophets, are in agreement.

 

[Strong in Him]

He died for us....doesn't sound like cold love to me.

Amen!!

"like" very much.

 

[7xlightray]

Yeah exactly you got it.

Jesus said Moses wrote of me, and that is of him it is speaking of likewise it says that Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after (Heb 3:5)

Even as God hath
in these last days spoken unto us by his Son ...(Heb 1:2)

You can see how it is God going with ones mouth

Or is as a mouth is given which pertains to the Spirit of your Father which would speak in you as is shown here

God speaking by Christ says

Luke 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Here also in the same

Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Just as here

Ex 4:12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

Its the words of the wicked that lay in wait for blood, but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them

The Lord is upright, and its the mouth of the upright that delivers them Prov 12:6

As shown here

2 Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

Then there is one being given another mouth

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Lying spirits are placed in mouths also

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Theres others but the witnesses which show these things are so many, God by Moses and in Jesus Christ and with his apostles (and so forth).

That is pretty straight forward.
The farther we are away from the true God, and His Christ, the farther we will be from seeing them in scripture.

 

[7xlightray]

This has nothing to do with the verse quoted earlier where God said that Moses would be as God to Aaron. Deuteronomy 18:18 is a clear prophecy about Jesus Christ, but that doesn't give you license to apply the name of Jesus Christ to any other writing of Moses that you think it fits with. There is no scriptural evidence for what you are saying to imply that Jesus is not God because of these verses, especially when the Bible elsewhere clearly says that He is God.

I don't care if you consider this a type of Jesus' relationship with His disciples. I have seen it used the same way and can see how it applies. The problem is when you try to use this type as evidence that Jesus is not who the scriptures, Jesus Himself, and the apostles say He is.

I think you may have missed my point, although I know it does apply to Christ, my point here was not to prove Jesus is not God with this passage, but that God made Moses as God. So, God can make some as God, though it has to do with position, and character.

Besides all the New Testament texts that say that Jesus is God, and texts like Isaiah where He is called the Mighty God,

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken​

Does this mean there are other Gods? We reason from scripture, that they are not the only true God, but has to do with position, authority. So again, just because some in the Bible are called G/god, does not mean they are the only true God. That is my point. So, to find out the truth if they are, we need to search the scriptures. And scripture declares, we are to know no other God then the God Israel knew Deuteronomy 13:1-3. And the Bible states the Father is the only true God. This means, if Jesus is referred to as God, then we know this has to do with position, and character, because the Father is the only true God, and this is also revealed in many ways, in the Old, and New Testaments.

God also says He will not give His glory to any other (Isaiah 42:8). Yet we see that He gives it to His Son.

What did God say, I will not give my glory to anyone, or did He say, I will not give my glory to another?

What did God say, not what man teaches?
Who is He speaking to? Who is this speaking to... Isaiah 42:1-8; ...now who is this speaking to... Isaiah 48:1,8-11. Words of Paul beginning to ring 1 Corinthians 2:7-12? “which God ordained before the world unto our glory.” Didn't Jesus also say something about the glory he had before the world was? John 17:5. If you don't believe it, you wont receive it.

There are only three things that we can conclude from this:
Either (a) Jesus is God, as the New Testament plainly says and the Old Testament at least hints at
(b) God is a liar, or
(c) the New Testament, particularly any part of it that says that God gives Jesus His glory, is false

Of course the other option is, we did not understand correctly, because we inherited lies from our fathers.

Since I believe on the name of the Lord Jesus, I believe that Jesus is, in fact, God, as the New Testament says and the Old Testament at least hints at.

Actually, Jesus said, only the Father is the true God.


Let me ask you a couple of questions. Who glorified, and set Jesus at His right hand? Who literally raised Jesus from the dead?

 

[Tiny Bible]

 

[Goatee]

A mixed up guy i would say in the video above. Sola Scripture should not be the 'only' way to read and understand scripture!

 

[7xlightray]

This does not indicate that Jesus is a lesser being, else what evidence would this be of His humility? If Jesus were a lesser being than God, then becoming obedient would not be "humbling Himself" but a simple requirement. No angel is said to "humble himself" when he obeys the Lord.

Of course it would. Are we not as humans, to humble ourselves? Jesus was given so much, wisdom, and understanding, miracles, the temptation to lord it over others would have been there, for he was tempted in every way we are. Moses also as God, was humble. Jesus also, could have grasped at his Lordship. He knew he would be given rule over all of God works, he could have grasped at it early. He did not try to overtake the religious rulers, throw them out, and set himself up as supreme religious leader, he let God bear witness of him. Nor did he, when tempted to remove the Roman authority, set himself up as king.

What I am arguing against is the philosophy that "the word/Logos" became the sun, moon, stars, etc., and that when the apostle John says the Word was God and goes on, so that there's no doubt about it, to explain that all things were created through Him, and without Him not even one thing was created that was created, he somehow meant that the Word was an expression of God's thoughts and not actually God. That is what I am arguing against, and the prophesies concerning Jesus, the Messiah, in the Old Testament, be it the prophecies given to Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos, Hosea, or any of the other prophets, are in agreement.

God said [His Word], Let there be light: and there was light
God said [His Word], Let there be a firmament
God said [His Word], Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night

John 1:3 is speaking about the Word, not Jesus, for in verse 14, the Word becomes flesh.
We are speaking about the Word of Life, which is the Father, the Father is life, and gives life. The Father is truth, no darkness; life, not death.

 

[nomadictheist]

I think you may have missed my point, although I know it does apply to Christ, my point here was not to prove Jesus is not God with this passage, but that God made Moses as God. So, God can make some as God, though it has to do with position, and character.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken​

Does this mean there are other Gods? We reason from scripture, that they are not the only true God, but has to do with position, authority. So again, just because some in the Bible are called G/god, does not mean they are the only true God. That is my point. So, to find out the truth if they are, we need to search the scriptures. And scripture declares, we are to know no other God then the God Israel knew Deuteronomy 13:1-3. And the Bible states the Father is the only true God. This means, if Jesus is referred to as God, then we know this has to do with position, and character, because the Father is the only true God, and this is also revealed in many ways, in the Old, and New Testaments.

Yes, there are many in this world that can be called "gods," and many in this world that can be called "lords." But for us there is only one God, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by Whom are all things and through Whom we exist... (1 Corinthians 8:6, compare with John 1:3)

What did God say, I will not give my glory to anyone, or did He say, I will not give my glory to another?

What did God say, not what man teaches?
Who is He speaking to? Who is this speaking to... Isaiah 42:1-8; ...now who is this speaking to... Isaiah 48:1,8-11. Words of Paul beginning to ring 1 Corinthians 2:7-12? “which God ordained before the world unto our glory.” Didn't Jesus also say something about the glory he had before the world was? John 17:5. If you don't believe it, you wont receive it.

"I will give my glory to no other..." (Isaiah 42:8)
"My glory I will not give to another..." (Isaiah 48:11)
==== What God said, not what man teaches.

And yes, Jesus said something about the glory He shared with God before the World was. How does this indicate that He is not God exactly?

Of course the other option is, we did not understand correctly, because we inherited lies from our fathers.

Right. Because "I will not give my glory to another" is so hard to understand.

Actually, Jesus said, only the Father is the true God.

And He also claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath, a title only God can hold, to be able to forgive sins, something only God can do, and I'll save the last one for after your next question:

Let me ask you a couple of questions. Who glorified, and set Jesus at His right hand? Who literally raised Jesus from the dead?

Good question. What does Jesus say?
"So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken."

According to Jesus, He raised Himself up from the dead after 3 days. But according to other scriptures, God raised Him up. Was Jesus lying?

 

[nomadictheist]

Of course it would. Are we not as humans, to humble ourselves? Jesus was given so much, wisdom, and understanding, miracles, the temptation to lord it over others would have been there, for he was tempted in every way we are. Moses also as God, was humble. Jesus also, could have grasped at his Lordship. He knew he would be given rule over all of God works, he could have grasped at it early. He did not try to overtake the religious rulers, throw them out, and set himself up as supreme religious leader, he let God bear witness of him. Nor did he, when tempted to remove the Roman authority, set himself up as king.

We are to humble ourselves, absolutely. But being human "taking on the form of a man" is not humbling ourselves. It is only humbling yourself if you possess a form greater than the form of a man.

"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus. 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

So before emptying Himself Jesus was equal with God. How can someone who is not God be equal with God? Furthermore, He humbled Himself by taking the form of a servant and being born in the likeness of men. How is that humbling yourself if you are no more than an expression of a thought? Did the sun, moon, and stars humble themselves when they came into being?

God said [His Word], Let there be light: and there was light
God said [His Word], Let there be a firmament
God said [His Word], Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night

John 1:3 is speaking about the Word, not Jesus, for in verse 14, the Word becomes flesh.
We are speaking about the Word of Life, which is the Father, the Father is life, and gives life. The Father is truth, no darkness; life, not death.

Jesus is the Word. John makes this clear. It is his whole purpose of writing the Gospel of John. It is affirmed elsewhere in the New Testament by similar sayings about Jesus and His role in Creation. Jesus is the Word of Life.

You continue to try to cast "the Word" as what came out of God's mouth at the beginning, but scripture does not do this.

Tell me, when God said "who will go and be a lying spirit on the lips of the prophets" did His word also become a lying spirit?

 

[Fireinfolding]

That is pretty straight forward.
The farther we are away from the true God, and His Christ, the farther we will be from seeing them in scripture.

Yeah, you know, thats a good thing to pray (even in respects to the eyes of our understanding being opened) even as he is shown opening these things up to his disciples understanding shown in various ways

Psalm 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Since the testimony of Jesus comes in the volume of the book (as we have the law and the prophets) he says,

Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Even as they are they which testify of me (Jesus said)

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Which thing is also true in Christ

Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

I love the use of the word "thing" and "things" in various places. And shows the honour that pertains to kings relates to searching out such a matter.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

So noble "in that" mind of things

And even as all scripture is given "for reproof" it is written

Prov 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

The scriptures compliment the picture and even bring clarity to the revelation when handled correctly. It seems more like the over dissection of words in the wisdom of men (where often things might hang on just one word) and what goes on in that sphere of things marr the Word even by their particlar use of the word (or lack of it) in that sense of things. Then making you an offender over a word.

Just look for confirmation (in the way its meant to be shown) thats actually the fun part though sometimes can be difficult once you have it it grows and becomes far more clearer.

God bless

 

[Tiny Bible]

A mixed up guy i would say in the video above. Sola Scripture should not be the 'only' way to read and understand scripture!

Not what the video was about. The contention between Protestantism and Catholicism is for another thread.
Especially given that all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. To argue God's breath is to be rejected and by a council of Trent is certainly for a different thread.

What the video was about is the Trinity doctrine.

 

[Tiny Bible]

I have never said there is a trinity, there isn't. The holy spirit is not one being, but many holy spirits. So there is not "big three" as the doctrine of the trinity teaches. There is only the Father, then the Son, then holy angels who are holy spirits, and then the elect.

Angels are not literally stars, but angels are indeed associated figuratively with stars.

Do you not realize the contradiction you posted there?
You disavow there is a trinity. But you argue there are many holy spirits.

Show us the scripture that says exactly that. That there are many holy spirits.


I also wonder how many threads are going to appear discussing the same key points on the topic of the Trinity.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Cgaviria cant respond right now
(you can use your imagination as to why)

Maybe he means the seven Spirits of God?

Sometimes scriptures shows seven upon one for example in Zech 3:9 prophesied of a stone (which I might see as Jesus Christ, given he is shown as a stone) and there it shows seven eyes upon one stone (even Jesus) which to me could be another a representative of the fulness of the Godhead bodily, shown together as seven horns and seven eyes in the picture of the Lamb that stood (as it were already slain) in Rev 5:6 these together (the Lamb having) as the seven Spirits of God (sent out into the earth). Or a picture given of that one same Spirit (which is shown to divide severally) in 1 Cr 12:11 as he wills. Since the same is found upon the stone (seven eyes) shown as seven spirits (as upon Christ) in whom dwelled the fulness of the Godhead bodily (receiving the Spirit without measure) could that also be understood to be a picture of the fulness of the Godhead (in that sense). Because as is shown in Col 2:9 which Christ had bodily which we (the church) have received as John 1:16 speaks of the same (as through the Lamb upon the which the same is shown). And if the same truly be a representive of the fulness of the Godhead he had bodily (or as seven eyes upon one stone) I would think it makes great sense to see as the seven Spirits of God (which are likewise sent into the earth) after being shown the lamb that was slain in Rev 5:6 even as his says his fulness (we have received). So, more after that manner am I understanding it, which (for me) makes more sense of all the places combined. Just shown that way, but really of one Spirit, just the dividing severally like that in the picture (upon stone/lamb/Christ)

Whether of the Stone upon whom is seven eyes, or the Man (even the Branch) which had a number of the spirits of God upon the same (Isaiah 11:1-2) or as the Lamb (that was slain) stood where you can see the same seven eyes (but adds) seven horns and these it says are the seven Spirits of God. Leaves some room to consider things outside one (rigidly) or three I would think.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Maybe he means the seven Spirits of God?
That is not what he said and you know it......

 

[civilwarbuff]

"Cgaviria cant respond right now"
Is he having computer problems?