Why the "thousand years" in Revelation 20 does not simply mean "a long time."

[Biblewriter]

Amils continuously argue that the term "a thousand years" in Revelation 20 simply means a long period of time. And they present a long series of examples from other scriptures where similar terms are indeed used figuratively.

But when they say these things, the neglect one critical detail. There is a change in wording in Revelation 20. The passage in question reads:

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
Revelation 20:1-7

If you examine the parts I highlighted, you will notice that the phrase "a thousand years," which was used three times, and which I highlighted in black boldface, can easily be explained in the way the Amils love to explain them. But another term is used in this passage. This is the term "the thousand years." I highlighted the three places this term was used in red boldface.

In each of these cases, the Greek text plainly includes the Greek definite article ho, word number 3588 in String's numbering system. This is unique terminology, used nowhere else in scripture.

To understand the significance of this, we need to understand the use of articles in the Greek language. In this language, articles are not normally used, and when they are used, it is for stress. So the words "a thousand years," (or a thousand generations, etc.) wherever they occur in the entire Bible, are just two words "thousand years," and the indefinite article is implied. This is also the case whenever the definite article is implied. In the Greek text, it is simply left out.

But Greek, whenever the definite article in included, it is for stress. So whenever we find the Greek word ho in the Greek text, is is speaking of something specific, not just something in general.


So when we find the term "the thousand years" in verses 3, 5, and 7, the Holy Spirit is stressing the fact that this is a particular thousand year period, not just some kind of a general period of time.

The details I gave about the definite article in Greek are also true of definite articles in Hebrew. In every Old Testament reference to "a thousand years," "a thousand generations," of any similar symbolic expression, the definite article is missing. It is never used, even once, in any such expression. In this sense, the statements in Revelation 20 are absolutely unique in all of scripture.

 

[ebedmelech]

The first clue the 1000 years are not literal is when John says "when the thousand years were finished".

One thousand would be clear if it was literal Biblewriter, and that's how you miss what the passage really communicates!

As God has said in Exodus 20:5, 6:
5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Do you notice how those "thousands who love God are innumerable there? That is the error of how you want the thousand years to be literal!

Or let's look at 2 Peter 3:8:
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

The uncertainty of the thousand years with the Lord is just as the thousand years of Revelation 20 (which runs consecutively with Satan being bound). This is the unknown period of time symbolized by the "thousand years" as Jesus continues to save those who come to salvation. Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 as well as giving insight to it.

When does that end? We cannot know, just as we cannot know when the thousand year reign will end.

Psalm 105:8 also show why you're in error again as God uses thousand to indicate His faithfulness being eternal:
8 He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,

You need to get the true perspective Biblewriter!

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Ebed

That was one of the best answering of a question while actually avoiding the main point of the statement made that I have ever seen. So much so that the statement/point is not addressed at all.

Are you a politician?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Biblewriter is correct, as a true Bible scholar, he shows the context and applications.


As to Ebed, the facts are that God has given the Living Oracles to tell when the thousand years are ended and the regeneration of all things come.

The Feast of Tabernacles is the "feast of ingathering of literal crops" at years end, but also specifically oracle/sign the ingathering of the last crop of earth's sons adopted out of Adam's seed for the building of the temple of God in heaven, and the "New Beginning" of the new creation on that eighth day, called "The Great Day", after the seven day Feast of Tabernacles ends.

The 8th day was the day of Jesus' circumcision as a Jewish male, for His incarnation was on the eve of Channukah [Haggai 2, on the 24th day of the ninth month] and birth then, was exactly nine months later, on the first day of Tabernacles. His circumcision on the eighth day, the "Great Day", was signing the regeneration of all things and the new beginning of the 8th millennial day of earth, when the Adam spirit is no more standing before God and no more sons are born in Adam.


As the words of Wisdom are double to what they are, then also, Noah indeed preached repentance for 120 literal years, but the Adam spirit was given only 120 Jubilee years to stand before God from the time God told Noah to preach, and signed the end of this present creation of Adam's seed multiplying by the one Adam spirit [Malachi 2:15] as 120 Jubilee years from that date.
God's Jubilee years are 20 to a millennium, so from 120 years before the flood, of normal years, the Adam will multiply on earth for 6,000 years -120 Jubilee years- and that makes the "Great Day" -that New Beginning in the eighth day of earth's existence- be the fulfillment of circumcision as a sign given to Israeli males to wear in their flesh until it is fulfilled, in that New Beginning of that eighth Millennium.

 

[Steve Petersen]

One thousand years of a Messianic rest were envisioned by some of the sages of Israel, based on Psalm 90:4.

As the world was created in six days and God rested on the seventh, some expected the history of redemption to last 7000 years. The first 6000 years are followed by 1000 years of rest during the Messianic Era.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

And then, after the "New Beginning" of that eighth Millennial day since the beginning of creation, the earth will go on, with human being sons of God, named "Israel" as to their flesh of recreation when all things are regenerated and Adam is no more being born on earth below for living their thousand year day, each, then being transformed to the Glory so as to go on "planting the heavens" forever, even a promised million million years to come, for a generation will live their "thousand years" before transformation, and God has promised He formed Israel to "plant the heavens" [which Adam was made male and female to do and became a ruined vessel for doing; Genesis 1:26-28; Malachi 2:15; Haggai 2].
God's one plan is in process of being fulfilled in the New Creation Man, as the first, old creation Adam man, became a ruined clay vessel unable to bear the Glory, as the Oracles teach us, in Leviticus.
God gave earth one week of one thousand year days for the Adam seed to multiply, and for the earth's redemption back, in the New Name for His Plan to go on as He created Adam for in the beginning.


Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

One thousand years of a Messianic rest were envisioned by some of the sages of Israel, based on Psalm 90:4.

As the world was created in six days and God rested on the seventh, some expected the history of redemption to last 7000 years. The first 6000 years are followed by 1000 years of rest during the Messianic Era.

Yes, the sages wrote of it in many places.

 

[ebedmelech]

Hi Ebed

That was one of the best answering of a question while actually avoiding the main point of the statement made that I have ever seen. So much so that the statement/point is not addressed at all.

Are you a politician?

I'm not answering a "question"...there is no question!

So you must be the politician JTF because you call "a viewpoint" a question.

What I did was present the amillennial view with it's perspective briefly. There's more to it..but that's the short view.

Biblewriter operates from a dispensational view...that's what he presented.

When you read a question in Biblewriter's post...let me know.

He wants to play a "word game" with the Greek trying to make a difference in "a thousand years" and "the thousand years".

The fact is "the thousand years" is clarifying "a thousand years" in each case. This is what Jesus called "swallowing a camel and straining at a gnat".

 

[ebedmelech]

Biblewriter is correct, as a true Bible scholar, he shows the context and applications.


As to Ebed, the facts are that God has given the Living Oracles to tell when the thousand years are ended and the regeneration of all things come.

The Feast of Tabernacles is the "feast of ingathering of literal crops" at years end, but also specifically oracle/sign the ingathering of the last crop of earth's sons adopted out of Adam's seed for the building of the temple of God in heaven, and the "New Beginning" of the new creation on that eighth day, called "The Great Day", after the seven day Feast of Tabernacles ends.

The 8th day was the day of Jesus' circumcision as a Jewish male, for His incarnation was on the eve of Channukah [Haggai 2, on the 24th day of the ninth month] and birth then, was exactly nine months later, on the first day of Tabernacles. His circumcision on the eighth day, the "Great Day", was signing the regeneration of all things and the new beginning of the 8th millennial day of earth, when the Adam spirit is no more standing before God and no more sons are born in Adam.


As the words of Wisdom are double to what they are, then also, Noah indeed preached repentance for 120 literal years, but the Adam spirit was given only 120 Jubilee years to stand before God from the time God told Noah to preach, and signed the end of this present creation of Adam's seed multiplying by the one Adam spirit [Malachi 2:15] as 120 Jubilee years from that date.
God's Jubilee years are 20 to a millennium, so from 120 years before the flood, of normal years, the Adam will multiply on earth for 6,000 years -120 Jubilee years- and that makes the "Great Day" -that New Beginning in the eighth day of earth's existence- be the fulfillment of circumcision as a sign given to Israeli males to wear in their flesh until it is fulfilled, in that New Beginning of that eighth Millennium.

You have some truth in what you're saying...except one thing. You can't know when these things will happen and Peter tells us you can't know, which is 2 Peter 3:8.

When it comes to Jubilee I won't accept that because God gave Jubilee to Israel in the Sinaitic Covenant. Noah was under the Noahic Covenant. God applied the 120 years to the first world...and Jubilee is based on seven sabbatical years in which the 50th year is Jubilee. That doesn't fit the 120 years God gave before the flood.

Now you look at only one fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles is fulfilled with Christ coming. As John 1 tells us the "Word became flesh and dwelt (tabernacled), among us. This is how Christ fulfilled it to Israel even though they rejected Him. John said "He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him". This was Israel's failure to know the time of their visitation!

At the end when judgment has been rendered, Revelation 21:3, 4:
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

John is actually giving us fulfillment of Zechariah 14:16-19, as judgment will have been rendered.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You have some truth in what you're saying...except one thing. You can't know when these things will happen and Peter tells us you can't know, which is 2 Peter 3:8.

When it comes to Jubilee I won't accept that because God gave Jubilee to Israel in the Sinaitic Covenant. Noah was under the Noahic Covenant. God applied the 120 years to the first world...and Jubilee is based on seven sabbatical years in which the 50th year is Jubilee. That doesn't fit the 120 years God gave before the flood.

Tabernacles is not fulfilled to the jot and tittle, yet, and will not be until the end of the thousand years, when all human being flesh is transformed and is what Adam was to have been, in the beginning: a temple made for the Glory, and with each one born after the seven thousand year week of earth's present creation being born to live their thousand year day as Adam would have, and then be transformed to the Glory so as to "Plant the heavens" as sons of God made for the Glory to indwell.

So the Firstborn of the Last Man creation is "Emmanuel, God with us" in human being flesh; but the last harvest of transformed sons of God born in and adopted out of the Adam is not yet fulfilled. That is why all Gentile nations will send their males up to Jerusalem on Tabernacles in the Millennial reign, every year for the blessing of the Water on that 8th day, which types that Great Day to come, and is the New Beginning when all things are made new, but restored totally to what they would have been if Adam had not become defiled.


As to not knowing the Day: the only Day we do not know is the Rapture of the Church, which sets in motion the signs given to the sign nation, in which the exact day of the return of the LORD to earth can be counted from the beginning of the Witness of Elijah and Moses, who were eye witnesses to the incarnation, the life, the death, the burial, the resurrection and the Glory of the Messiah; and that is why they were standing there, talking to Him on the Mount of Transfiguration about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.
From the time they are killed and raptured in their resurrection of their bodies, it will be exactly 3 1/2 years til the Messiah returns.

But in this Church age, the signs have stopped for the sign nation, while the Gentiles are shown grace. There is no sign for the rapture, and all the signs pertain to Israel.

As to the many cycles of God's measuring time, He has done so from the beginning, but He also has "Stops" in place, for certain measures until the signs begin again.
God has thousand year days and one week of them for this present creation, with the last being the Sabbath of it.
God has 700 year weeks with ten of them counted for Israel, but they are on a stop of being counted since the resurrection of the Messiah, until the age of the Gentiles ends -then they begin again.

God has Jubilee years of seven, seven year weeks, with the 50th a Jubilee year.
He did not invent that for Israel, He already had it as one of His measures, and the Head of the nations for earth will keep these perfectly in the Millennial reign, and forever. They will never end.


He has all these cycles of measures of time running concurrently, with the solar year of 360 days plus four stop days, making a 364 day year counted in the end of it. That is His Enochian calendar, revealed to Enoch, and in all His measures of time, He has Sabbath "stops", not counted but added in the end of the cycle.

 

[Biblewriter]

There is one poster here that seems to be physically incapable of ever admitting that he is wrong about anything. No amount of proof will even get him to change his mind.

I did not present evidence from "a dispensational viewpoint." I presented evidence from a linguistic viewpoint. There can be zero doubt of the truth of what I said. The presence of the definite article in either Greek of Hebrew is always significant. And it is not included in even one of the places where "a thousand (anything)" is used symbolically.

Nor is the doctrine of a physical millennium on earth a "dispensational" viewpoint unless all the earliest church writers were dispensationalists. For it was clearly taught by Papias, Justyn, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Hyppolytus, just to name those who wrote either before or in the very early years of the third century. In later years it was also clearly taught by Commodianus, Lactantius, Apollinaris, Victorinus of Petau, and Nepos.

 

[ebedmelech]

There is one poster here that seems to be physically incapable of ever admitting that he is wrong about anything. No amount of proof will even get him to change his mind.

So look in the mirror then. There are many posts where I admit I was in error. However, when it comes to admitting error you can't.

I did not present evidence from "a dispensational viewpoint." I presented evidence from a linguistic viewpoint. There can be zero doubt of the truth of what I said. The presence of the definite article in either Greek of Hebrew is always significant. And it is not included in even one of the places where "a thousand (anything)" is used symbolically.

No Biblewriter...there's a dispensational linguistic approach also, which is making the linguistics fit your view. One classic that comes to mind is the failure to acknowledge Jesus saying "this generation" in the fig tree parable means those he was speaking to. That is flat denial of linguistics.

Nor is the doctrine of a physical millennium on earth a "dispensational" viewpoint unless all the earliest church writers were dispensationalists. For it was clearly taught by Papias, Justyn, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Hyppolytus, just to name those who wrote either before or in the very early years of the third century. In later years it was also clearly taught by Commodianus, Lactantius, Apollinaris, Victorinus of Petau, and Nepos.

I never said it was dispensational only...so what point are you making Biblewriter...except babel?

The facts are these...I hold to an ammillennial position on eschatoogy, and you hold to a dispensational position. We both think we're right but most assuredly one of us is wrong, and neither of us are 100% correct!

The fact is when Jesus returns we will all know even as we are known. At that time...it really won't matter that you were wrong...because we will have been changed to immortality...

 

[Biblewriter]

The fact is when Jesus returns we will all know even as we are known. At that time...it really won't matter that you were wrong...because we will have been changed to immortality...

Amen

 

[Bible2]

Biblewriter said in post 11:

Nor is the doctrine of a physical millennium on earth a "dispensational" viewpoint unless all the earliest church writers were dispensationalists.

That's right, for premillennialism per se doesn't require dispensationalism, but is also consistent with covenantalism. And it's the Bible itself which shows that Jesus will physically reign on the earth during the 1,000 years, for the 1,000 years will begin after his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), when he will physically land on the earth and rule it from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-21). And because Jesus will reign physically on the earth during the 1,000 years, so will the physically resurrected church, for the physically resurrected church will reign with Jesus during the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6). And so in Revelation 5:10, the reference to the church reigning in the future "on the earth" includes the 1,000 years. Also, in Revelation 2:26-29, the reigning of the church physically over the nations can refer to the 1,000 years. There is no reason to exclude the 1,000 years from Revelation 5:10 or Revelation 2:26-29, just as there is no reason to exclude the earth from Revelation 20:4-6.

Also, the church will reign forever on the new earth. For the church will reign forever in New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:5, Revelation 21:10 to 22:5), which will descend from heaven to a new earth (Revelation 21:1-3, Revelation 21:10) sometime after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7 to 21:3).

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 12:

No Biblewriter...there's a dispensational linguistic approach also, which is making the linguistics fit your view. One classic that comes to mind is the failure to acknowledge Jesus saying "this generation" in the fig tree parable means those he was speaking to.

The futurist interpretation of Matthew 24:34 isn't limited to dispensationalism, but is also consistent with covenantalism. Also, just as some camps of partial preterism admit that Jesus skips thousands of years in Matthew 24:30, so such camps should be able to admit that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

[ebedmelech]

The futurist interpretation of Matthew 24:34 isn't limited to dispensationalism, but is also consistent with covenantalism. Also, just as some camps of partial preterism admit that Jesus skips thousands of years in Matthew 24:30, so such camps should be able to admit that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

I think I already made the point that dispensationalism isn't the only futurist interpretation.

When Jesus spoke the fulfillment of "all theses things" at Matthew 24:34 let's look at how that is said:
34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Jesus didn't say "the generation" or "that generation"...He said "THIS GENERATION".

Jesus is speaking of everything He said prior to that. It is all tribulation! Jesus said to the disciples at Matthew 24:9:
9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Work with that...

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't even deserve a response Bible2! Why is Jesus telling the disciples about something they would never see? Something 2000 years later is not the point. The point here is what Jesus said at the beginning "Do you not see all these things? I tell you not one stone..."

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

No. Bible2, what you're saying is you don't have a position on the passage, even though the passage doesn't show ambiguity at all. That's too is ok. However, to even think this passage is reaching to our day is just flat ridiculous!

Matthew 24 is about Jerusalem/Israel...Matthew 25 (which is also part of this discourse) is speaking to the unknown future. Jesus doesn't even get specific there nothing is known, except Jesus is gone...and will return. Try reading Matthew 25.

 

[ebedmelech]

Tabernacles is not fulfilled to the jot and tittle, yet, and will not be until the end of the thousand years, when all human being flesh is transformed and is what Adam was to have been, in the beginning: a temple made for the Glory, and with each one born after the seven thousand year week of earth's present creation being born to live their thousand year day as Adam would have, and then be transformed to the Glory so as to "Plant the heavens" as sons of God made for the Glory to indwell.

The Feast of Tabernacles has nothing to do with the thousand years. It has to do with God dwelling with man. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Covenant and He did. If Jesus did not fulfill the Old Covenant there would be no New Covenant.

The Thousand years started when Jesus received the reign from God the Father and that was after His resurrection yeshuasavedme. Jesus told the apostles in Matthew 28:18 He had received ALL AUTHORITY in heaven AND on earth. Based on that He is reigning right now.

The apostle Paul writes in Epheasian to that Jesus sat down at the Father's right hand FAR ABOVE all rule, authority, power, dominion, and EVERY name that is named not only in THIS AGE, but also in the one to come.

The millennium has been going since Christ was raised.

So the Firstborn of the Last Man creation is "Emmanuel, God with us" in human being flesh; but the last harvest of transformed sons of God born in and adopted out of the Adam is not yet fulfilled. That is why all Gentile nations will send their males up to Jerusalem on Tabernacles in the Millennial reign, every year for the blessing of the Water on that 8th day, which types that Great Day to come, and is the New Beginning when all things are made new, but restored totally to what they would have been if Adam had not become defiled.

The harvest based on Old Covenant Law is in Matthew 27:50-54 as the OT saints are raised and after Jesus is resurrected He takes them to the holy city. That is the "Jerusalem above". Nothing of the Old Covenant remained to be fulfilled. However the New Covenant typology does absorb the feasts of the Old Covenant...but not for fulfillment though...Christ did that.

I don't think you get the magnitude of what you're saying when you say the Feast of Tabernacles was not fulfilled. Listen to Jesus Matthew 5:17, 18:
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Jesus did that or how could Paul say "Christ became a curse for us"?

As to not knowing the Day: the only Day we do not know is the Rapture of the Church, which sets in motion the signs given to the sign nation, in which the exact day of the return of the LORD to earth can be counted from the beginning of the Witness of Elijah and Moses, who were eye witnesses to the incarnation, the life, the death, the burial, the resurrection and the Glory of the Messiah; and that is why they were standing there, talking to Him on the Mount of Transfiguration about His upcoming death in Jerusalem.
From the time they are killed and raptured in their resurrection of their bodies, it will be exactly 3 1/2 years til the Messiah returns.

But in this Church age, the signs have stopped for the sign nation, while the Gentiles are shown grace. There is no sign for the rapture, and all the signs pertain to Israel.

As to the many cycles of God's measuring time, He has done so from the beginning, but He also has "Stops" in place, for certain measures until the signs begin again.
God has thousand year days and one week of them for this present creation, with the last being the Sabbath of it.
God has 700 year weeks with ten of them counted for Israel, but they are on a stop of being counted since the resurrection of the Messiah, until the age of the Gentiles ends -then they begin again.

God has Jubilee years of seven, seven year weeks, with the 50th a Jubilee year.
He did not invent that for Israel, He already had it as one of His measures, and the Head of the nations for earth will keep these perfectly in the Millennial reign, and forever. They will never end.


He has all these cycles of measures of time running concurrently, with the solar year of 360 days plus four stop days, making a 364 day year counted in the end of it. That is His Enochian calendar, revealed to Enoch, and in all His measures of time, He has Sabbath "stops", not counted but added in the end of the cycle.

We don't have to "go around" about this again...let's wait on the Lord. You'll find out.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Feast of Tabernacles has nothing to do with the thousand years. It has to do with God dwelling with man. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Covenant and He did. If Jesus did not fulfill the Old Covenant there would be no New Covenant...

Jesus fulfilled the Atonement at Passover, for whosoever received the forerunner who came in the spirit and power of Elijah!
But the Passover is kept in remembrance of that by all in Christ, even by Gentiles who were never under Moses, and the Atonement will be celebrated as a great feast in the thousand years, remembering His fulfillment of it, by the nation of His New Man name, "Israel".

And in the last thousand Year Day of earth's seven Millennial days, every Gentile city on earth will send up their males to Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles, or else they will get no rain on their city for one year!

That is Bible teaching, and Tabernacles is about the last harvest, and oracles the harvest of the sons of God off earth, who will be transformed in bodies without dying at the end of their "Day", at the end of the thousand year Sabbath.

Then the 8th Day starts, which is oracled in the Law as that Great Day, the New Beginning, which comes the day after the seven days of the Feast of Tabernacles is fulfilled.

And Ebed, you are very deceived on what the New Covenant is, in that it is written on the heart for all who come into the Living Spirit by adoption, into the New Man name, instead of on tablets of stone, outside one; and that was promised to the Namesake people first, and the "New Testament" Gospel records are given to us by those Jews who were the receivers of the promised "Written on the Heart, New Covenant" which is the same decalogue written on stone tablets, but not on Stone,since the new birth, but on the heart of a regenerated, born again, adopted into the One Living Spirit of the New Man forgiven cleansed soul, who has received the once for all Atonement finished.

 

[ebedmelech]

Jesus fulfilled the Atonement at Passover, for whosoever received the forerunner who came in the spirit and power of Elijah!
But the Passover is kept in remembrance of that by all in Christ, even by Gentiles who were never under Moses, and the Atonement will be celebrated as a great feast in the thousand years, remembering His fulfillment of it, by the nation of His New Man name, "Israel".

No. This is pure error! We've been over your erroneous "New Man" idea...as we know Paul calls the church a new man...never Christ!

This is how Jesus fulfilled every feast:

*Passover - He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29)

*Unleavened bread - Christ was without sin...which leaven represented sin in the feast. Israel was to remove all leaven from their homes. 1 Corinthians 5:6-8 gives the insight:
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough?
7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Do you notice how the apostle put Passover and Unleavened Bread together there? Jesus fulfilled them.

*The Feast of Firstfruits - Christ is the Firstfruits of the resurrection! 1 Corinthians 15:20:
20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

*Feast of Pentecost - Fulfilled in Acts 2 as the Holy Spirit is poured out ushering in the New Covenant Peter said in Acts 2:6:
6 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:

*Feast of Trumpets - This Feast is fulfilled by Christ calling all to Himself. Every feast required a blood sacrifice and the trumpet blew to assemble God's people. The trumpet call is in Christ! He is the trumpet, even as he cries out at the Feast of Tabernacles in John 7:37:
37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.

Jesus cries out in John 12:44, 45:
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me.
45 He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.

*Day of Atonement - Was done once a year. It spoke to Christ being the ONE TIME sacrifice for sin. Hebrews 9:28:
28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

*Feast of Tabernacles - Christ fulfills the Feast of Tabernacles in that He is God dwelling among His people. As I said before John 1:14 tells us of this fulfillment:
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

This is how Christ fulfills the feasts...and don't fail to acknowledge that He attended EVERY FEAST, every year of His life in obedience to God or He would fail to obey the Law of God and would have sinned.

This is why you're in pure error! Many times Jesus referenced these feasts! He said to the disciples in John 4:34-38:
34 Jesus *said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.
35 Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest.
36 Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
37 For in this case the saying is true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’
38 I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor.”

And in the last thousand Year Day of earth's seven Millennial days, every Gentile city on earth will send up their males to Jerusalem at the Feast of Tabernacles, or else they will get no rain on their city for one year!

That is Bible teaching, and Tabernacles is about the last harvest, and oracles the harvest of the sons of God off earth, who will be transformed in bodies without dying at the end of their "Day", at the end of the thousand year Sabbath.

Then the 8th Day starts, which is oracled in the Law as that Great Day, the New Beginning, which comes the day after the seven days of the Feast of Tabernacles is fulfilled.

That *sounds* good...but the fact is that is not what scripture says, that's what you fabricate trying to make scripture fit your idea. Jesus NEVER spoke that way, nor did apostles or prophets speak anywhere of 7 millenniums this is the fabricated ideas of those who want scripture to fit their idea.

Jesus called Himself the sabbath saying "I WILL GIVE YOU REST" this is what any sabbath was a picture of our rest and freedom in Christ.

And Ebed, you are very deceived on what the New Covenant is, in that it is written on the heart for all who come into the Living Spirit by adoption, into the New Man name, instead of on tablets of stone, outside one; and that was promised to the Namesake people first, and the "New Testament" Gospel records are given to us by those Jews who were the receivers of the promised "Written on the Heart, New Covenant" which is the same decalogue written on stone tablets, but not on Stone,since the new birth, but on the heart of a regenerated, born again, adopted into the One Living Spirit of the New Man forgiven cleansed soul, who has received the once for all Atonement finished.

Really? I'm deceived? I read God's word! I know Hebrews 8:7-12 quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34...because I let the scripture tell me...unlike you who wants to impose on scripture.

You miss the boat yeashuasavedme because Hebrews 8:13 make the final point:
13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Wake up!

 

[NannaNae]

ok "blessed are those that make it to the 8th day"

this is a blessing as part of Hanukkah , the 8th day is symbolic of circumcision and or purification of the temple.
this is also symbolic of the 7 days of creation and 7000 years of man and the 8th day is the New beginnings, a new creation , a new Jerusalem.

now the 7th day is still within the ages of mankind . yes it is a rest, 1000 years to learn , a holy day , a family day , but it is still about man.

making it to the 8th day past the 1000 year reign is the huge victory. so death and hell is still here during all the ages of men including the 1000/or last day of creation ... the kingdom age or 1000 year rest , or Sabbath day Rest isn't really heaven . people think that and get it all confused . but it is wrong. really heaven doesn't start until we can see the father face to face.

so blessed are those who make it past the 1000 year to see the new Jerusalem and live with the father face to face forever. after the 1000 years all the laws of creation will change after death and all of hell is cut away.. and all things and everything you can image will have new laws.
and all things will be made new.
so it is a 1000 year reign and his 1000 year kingdom. but it is still the ages of men and death is still here.

and blessed are those who's temples are truly made purified/and he has circumcised, or Judged everyone and everything and everything born of "flesh " and death disappears before the 8th day starts .
blessed are those who make it to the literal 8000 year mark and their temple has been made pure. and no part of any kind of hell exists anyplace we will ever see again.